No. Which is why in telling you I'm embarrassed for you.

It doesn't matter what leaf management thought, because they (frank)ed it up. Just like they've regularly (frank)ed up everything for close to 50 years.

I'm saying grabovski is better, because its obvious. 4 years of numbers.. 4 years of gameplay. Grabovski has been better at literally everything but faceoffs. This is literally not even close. The majority of drunk bozak supporters won't even back you on this.
- joel878

u can say whatever u wanna say... i don;t want grabo on my team.....he will never contribute on a winning team.

member of a team.. well, those are hard to assess and can be subjective, and opinionated.
Skill set is easier to determine though facts.
- UsernameUnknown

skill set belong at a sill comp... member of a team belongs in a hockey game..... i don;t watch all star weekend.

nah .. he's selfish.. he needs his puck time.. if he doesn't get it he doesn;t produce.... cant win a draw to save his life.... so at time he's better then bozak.. but for an 82 game sched and a playoff run i want someone who shows up day in and day out... wins the faceoffs and pays attention to the little things.
- derm10

I believe Bozak wins 2 more than him per 100 faceoffs. Or something similar.
And I highly disagree with Grabo not showing up. Dude had the biggest heart on the team. He showed up to play every night. Doesnt mean hed produce though. but he tried. Plus its hard to produce any offense on a shutdown line.

Fair enough. But skills are whats being debated here. im looking at everything they bring on the ice. Im not debating whos nicer off the nice.
Im saying as an overall hockey player, Grabovski is better than Bozak. And I cant believe people cant see this.
- UsernameUnknown

So you think skills is what makes a hockey player better or worst? Is that what you are saying?? I just want to be clear about that.

Because we aren't talking about who is more skilled, at least I am not. I am talking about who is an all around better hockey player.

skill set belong at a sill comp... member of a team belongs in a hockey game..... i don;t watch all star weekend.
- derm10

Grabovski had team player moments. And fact is, he contributed more. Way more points than Bozak has gotten with inferior linemates.

u can say whatever u wanna say... i don;t want grabo on my team.....he will never contribute on a winning team.
- derm10

I'm not interested in the grabovski but, you're obviously stunned there.

But, if you think Tyler bozak will ever contribute anything in this league other than keeping kessel less productive, but happy playing ps3 in the hotel rooms.. Then you truly are a lost cause.

When bozak signed that contract, he ruined his chances of winning a cup as a 4th liner. No cup winning team would pay him that much for that position, and he'll never be good enough to win a cup as anything else. Ever.

I believe Bozak wins 2 more than him per 100 faceoffs. Or something similar.
And I highly disagree with Grabo not showing up. Dude had the biggest heart on the team. He showed up to play every night. Doesnt mean hed produce though. but he tried. Plus its hard to produce any offense on a shutdown line.
- UsernameUnknown

bozak took almost twice as many draws then grabo and was taking more key faceoff.. most of the hsort handed faceoffs.

Which is exactly why you lose this argument.

Bozak is worse offensively, worse defensively. He's slower and he's softer. Kessels numbers are actually worse playing with bozak than they are playing with every other soup can center he's played with in the last 4 years right down to John Mitchell and Dave steckel (feel free to look that up).

Bozak wins faceoffs, and he's not even near the best at that to validate everything else he sucks at. Know who else wins faceoffs and is good at nothing else? Dave steckel.
- joel878

Is it me or are you just completely contradicting yourself - please explain:
You claim that a big reason Grabs was traded was because he didn't fit RC's system as well as Bozak. Yet you also say that Grabs is better offensively, defensively, faster and just an all around better hockey player.
How does a guy that is worst at every facet of hockey fit a coaches system better?

So you think skills is what makes a hockey player better or worst? Is that what you are saying?? I just want to be clear about that.

Because we aren't talking about who is more skilled, at least I am not. I am talking about who is an all around better hockey player.
- Cooshie

No. I misunderstood at first. I got it now
And you are right. Overall better hockey player. Is still Grabovski.

Grabovski had team player moments. And fact is, he contributed more. Way more points than Bozak has gotten with inferior linemates.
- UsernameUnknown

agai.. back to points... not everything.

No. I misunderstood at first. I got it now
And you are right. Overall better hockey player. Is still Grabovski.
- UsernameUnknown

that why he has a contract and bozak doesn't.

Weird. You mean he played in a defensive role, and not on the teams top offensive line?

You're hurting my head.
- joel878

Lets ignore the fact that Bozak was a top penalty kill guy while Grabs sat on the bench....and lets forget the fact that Bozak played nearly 5 more minutes per game...

bozak took almost twice as many draws then grabo and was taking more key faceoff.. most of the hsort handed faceoffs.
- derm10

I agree. Bozak is marginally better than Grabovski at faceoffs. You got one. Congrats

Lets ignore the fact that Bozak was a top penalty kill guy while Grabs sat on the bench....and lets forget the fact that Bozak played nearly 5 more minutes per game...


- Cooshie

thats not grabo's fault... the coach didn;t like how he played.

Is it me or are you just completely contradicting yourself - please explain:
You claim that a big reason Grabs was traded was because he didn't fit RC's system as well as Bozak. Yet you also say that Grabs is better offensively, defensively, faster and just an all around better hockey player.
How does a guy that is worst at every facet of hockey fit a coaches system better?
- Cooshie

No, that's the other guy.. Figure it out.

I'm saying they did it because leaf management is chronically used to (frank)ing up, and has been doing it for 50 years.

It's people validating decisions like that one that have the fan base so comfortable with being absolute crap for half a century.

I agree. Bozak is marginally better than Grabovski at faceoffs. You got one. Congrats
- UsernameUnknown

who's the better penalty killer?

Lets ignore the fact that Bozak was a top penalty kill guy while Grabs sat on the bench....and lets forget the fact that Bozak played nearly 5 more minutes per game...


- Cooshie

You want to credit bozak with the improved penalty kill?

This just in.. Bozak was a penalty killer when the PK was the laughing stock of the NHL for 3 years to.

I am clearly fueling this by responding, but you both have no idea what you're talking about.

Lets ignore the fact that Bozak was a top penalty kill guy while Grabs sat on the bench....and lets forget the fact that Bozak played nearly 5 more minutes per game...


- Cooshie

Top penalty kill guy. Has been for what, 3 years? This year was when they finally got good it. why? well, Bozak sure wasn't the main reason. Id say Carlyle had a lot to do with it. McClement was easily the most important part in our PK. Komarov also did well.
1st line center got more minutes than the 3rd? who woooda thunk

No, that's the other guy.. Figure it out.

I'm saying they did it because leaf management is chronically used to (frank)ing up, and has been doing it for 50 years.

It's people validating decisions like that one that have the fan base so comfortable with being absolute crap for half a century.
- joel878

it's people like u that bring up the past 50 years cause u can't thin of a valid and current point.

No, that's the other guy.. Figure it out.

I'm saying they did it because leaf management is chronically used to (frank)ing up, and has been doing it for 50 years.

It's people validating decisions like that one that have the fan base so comfortable with being absolute crap for half a century.
- joel878

So it doesn't matter that this management team is completely different then the one 20 years ago of 5 years ago or even 3 years ago.....
The bottom line is you are right and they are wrong because they have been (frank)ing up for 50yrs.

Makes sense to me - you know better then this (frank) up of an organization!

bozak took almost twice as many draws then grabo and was taking more key faceoff.. most of the hsort handed faceoffs.
- derm10

Bozak was also 123rd in the league for faceoff percentage. Really boasts a guys faceoff ability considering he plays on the top line.

Wake up, everyone would have you believe he's a faceoff god. Truth is, is painfully mediocre at that to, just better than everyone else on this team (barely)

4.2 mil!

You want to credit bozak with the improved penalty kill?

This just in.. Bozak was a penalty killer when the PK was the laughing stock of the NHL for 3 years to.

I am clearly fueling this by responding, but you both have no idea what you're talking about.
- joel878

grabo use to kill penalties... he didn;t this year.

For the love of--
I dont know why. But I don't know any less than you guys.
Your pushing that Bozak is a better player than Grabovski and that's why we kept him as fact when its not. it just simply is not.
Im not making the claims as to why. Im only stating why you guys are wrong.

there are two arguments here. Lets get it cleared up.
1) Bozak is better than Grabovski.
2)Argument 1 is why we kept Bozak over Grabovski.

Well let me explain.
Argument 1 is wrong. So there is no debate needed for argument 2.

However, they can only be debated properly one at a time. so pick one and bring it.
- UsernameUnknown

OK, I'll weigh in on this one. Bozak is 3 years younger and still developing. Grabovski has hit his limit and under Carlyle is redundant. He's not as good in his own end as Bozak and not as good at winning faceoffs. We all talk about Bozak as riding Kessel's coat-tails. What you don't see, is maybe Bozak makes Kessel a better player. Kessel has confidence in the way Bozak plays and has chemistry with him. Is it co-incidence that Kessel's numbers have put him in the top 10 in scoring the last couple of years? Bozak does the small things and free's Kessel up to do what he does best. Grabovski had no chemistry with Kessel, or any of the other top 6 players on the team. His best success came with Kulimen and MacArthur, bonafied 3rd line players. When given a task by Randy Carlyle, he didn't perform up to standards, of a $5.5 million dollar hockey player. Where Bozak was popular with his team-mates, on and off the ice, Grabo came off as selfish and aloof. Under Randy Carlyle, he was a millstone around the neck of this team, going forward. The right and proper choice was made, considering that there was nothing better out there, in free agency.

Bozak was also 123rd in the league for faceoff percentage. Really boasts a guys faceoff ability considering he plays on the top line.

Wake up, everyone would have you believe he's a faceoff god. Truth is, is painfully mediocre at that to, just better than everyone else on this team (barely)

4.2 mil!
- joel878

other then point totals from years that the leafs sucked... do u have anything to back up grabo?

it's people like u that bring up the past 50 years cause u can't thin of a valid and current point.
- derm10

It's people like you two that have no concept of the last 50 years because you're to busy drunk with the blue and white beer goggles, promoting every move the leafs make as the next amazing move that's gonna win a cup. Out buying your jerseys, because these amazingly average plugs that can never get the team everywhere have just signed big contracts with the team.

Keep on believing boys! It's people like you that have kept this franchise a laughing stock.