where else would u compare a player to clark?
- derm10

What does one even say to that. I guess they better remove the 'player is comparable to' section at the draft, considering the player has never played for the same team.

Ridiculous.

There is a lot of anger here to tonight.
- BetterCallSaul

For me it's more bewilderment then anger.

I'm gonna say this as nicely as possible. You need to go learn hockey, and come back.
- joel878

u don;t need to know anything about hockey to know that one... i watched him during the playoffs playing on the forth line.

they why are u trying win on a technicality... if they leafs thought grabo was better they would have kept him. fact...... there is ur quote from nonis
- derm10

Well thanks for sharing. I guess Andrew raycroft is better than tukka rask.

What? If the team thought so they would have kept him. Fact.

What does one even say to that. I guess they better remove the 'player is comparable to' section at the draft, considering the player has never played for the same team.

Ridiculous.
- joel878

hahah i was joking u donkey.... i'll try and say it slower next time.

ok then what did the leafs buyout grabo? and i want facts here.
- derm10

Didn't you hear? They bought out Grabo, gave an inferior hockey player a 5yr $20+ mill contract (because he also fits the coaches system better) to save $1 mill in cap space so they can give a barrel full of money to Clarkson...

LOL

Well thanks for sharing. I guess Andrew raycroft is better than tukka rask.

What? If the team thought so they would have kept him. Fact.
- joel878

u know ur arguement is going to the crapper when u bring up the jf jr era.

Again, so what you are saying is the Leafs went and spent $35 million dollars on an inferior player (Buyout plus Bozak contract) so they could gain the extra $1mill in cap space to give to Clarkson?! Is that what you are trying to sell us?


- Cooshie

More to it than just that as well.
Add it all up.
1) Grabos contract was too big, we needed a cheaper option (every million counts at this point, look who is left to sign and how much we have)
2) Carlyle didn't want him on the team. It has nothing to do with being better or worse overall than another, but because Grabo couldn't adjust to the style. And after what Grabo said, Id be willing to bet there were personal tensions between the two.
3) I'm sure there is a hope that Kessel will sign a bit cheaper, or at least easier, now that Nonis kept his boytoy.

You dont get it. Still. There is no way to say we kept Bozak because he is a better player. for two reasons. 1) hes not a better player. Look at the stats. 2) You aren't the GM. Skillset is not, and will never be, the only factor with who stays and who goes.

Didn't you hear? They bought out Grabo, gave an inferior hockey player a 5yr $20+ mill contract (because he also fits the coaches system better) to save $1 mill in cap space so they can give a barrel full of money to Clarkson...

LOL
- Cooshie

no facts there

More to it than just that as well.
Add it all up.
1) Grabos contract was too big, we needed a cheaper option (every million counts at this point, look who is left to sign and how much we have)
2) Carlyle didn't want him on the team. It has nothing to do with being better or worse overall than another, but because Grabo couldn't adjust to the style. And after what Grabo said, Id be willing to bet there were personal tensions between the two.
3) I'm sure there is a hope that Kessel will sign a bit cheaper, or at least easier, now that Nonis kept his boytoy.

You dont get it. Still. There is no way to say we kept Bozak because he is a better player. for two reasons. 1) hes not a better player. Look at the stats. 2) You aren't the GM. Skillset is not, and will never be, the only factor with who stays and who goes.
- UsernameUnknown

the whole problem here is that u are judging a player on the pure skill they have.... sure grabo has bozak beat there.... but what most others judge a player on is their game as a whole and what they bring to a team.

u don;t need to know anything about hockey to know that one... i watched him during the playoffs playing on the forth line.
- derm10

I'm embarrassed for you. He played third line, got 2nd line time as well. He had a lot of minutes with Patrick (frank)ing Kane at one point. Did he do that on the 4th line to?

Tell me more about your expert hockey knowledge

I'm embarrassed for you. He played third line, got 2nd line time as well. He had a lot of minutes with Patrick (frank)ing Kane at one point. Did he do that on the 4th line to?

Tell me more about your expert hockey knowledge
- joel878

when did i say i was an expert at anything?????
yeah he was moved around.... but i saw him playing with the 4th line alot.

u know ur arguement is going to the crapper when u bring up the jf jr era.
- derm10

Oh, so era matters with your management knows all theory?
This is literally so stupid it's unarguable.

I'm embarrassed for you. He played third line, got 2nd line time as well. He had a lot of minutes with Patrick (frank)ing Kane at one point. Did he do that on the 4th line to?

Tell me more about your expert hockey knowledge
- joel878

during the playoff bolland averaged the 4th most average ice time among center on the hawks....i take that as 4th line minutes.

ok then what did the leafs buyout grabo? and i want facts here.
- derm10

For the love of--
I dont know why. But I don't know any less than you guys.
Your pushing that Bozak is a better player than Grabovski and that's why we kept him as fact when its not. it just simply is not.
Im not making the claims as to why. Im only stating why you guys are wrong.

there are two arguments here. Lets get it cleared up.
1) Bozak is better than Grabovski.
2)Argument 1 is why we kept Bozak over Grabovski.

Well let me explain.
Argument 1 is wrong. So there is no debate needed for argument 2.

However, they can only be debated properly one at a time. so pick one and bring it.

Oh, so era matters with your management knows all theory?
This is literally so stupid it's unarguable.
- joel878

ur trying to argue that the leafs management think grabo was a better player but bought him out and signed bozak.

the whole problem here is that u are judging a player on the pure skill they have.... sure grabo has bozak beat there.... but what most others judge a player on is their game as a whole and what they bring to a team.
- derm10

Which is exactly why you lose this argument.

Bozak is worse offensively, worse defensively. He's slower and he's softer. Kessels numbers are actually worse playing with bozak than they are playing with every other soup can center he's played with in the last 4 years right down to John Mitchell and Dave steckel (feel free to look that up).

Bozak wins faceoffs, and he's not even near the best at that to validate everything else he sucks at. Know who else wins faceoffs and is good at nothing else? Dave steckel.

For the love of--
I dont know why. But I don't know any less than you guys.
Your pushing that Bozak is a better player than Grabovski and that's why we kept him as fact when its not. it just simply is not.
Im not making the claims as to why. Im only stating why you guys are wrong.

there are two arguments here. Lets get it cleared up.
1) Bozak is better than Grabovski.
2)Argument 1 is why we kept Bozak over Grabovski.

Well let me explain.
Argument 1 is wrong. So there is no debate needed for argument 2.

However, they can only be debated properly one at a time. so pick one and bring it.
- UsernameUnknown

why do u think grabo is better then bozak as a member of a team.. not as a individual skill set.

the whole problem here is that u are judging a player on the pure skill they have.... sure grabo has bozak beat there.... but what most others judge a player on is their game as a whole and what they bring to a team.
- derm10

Fair enough. But skills are whats being debated here. im looking at everything they bring on the ice. Im not debating whos nicer off the nice.
Im saying as an overall hockey player, Grabovski is better than Bozak. And I cant believe people cant see this.

Which is exactly why you lose this argument.

Bozak is worse offensively, worse defensively. He's slower and he's softer. Kessels numbers are actually worse playing with bozak than they are playing with every other soup can center he's played with in the last 4 years right down to John Mitchell and Dave steckel (feel free to look that up).

Bozak wins faceoffs, and he's not even near the best at that to validate everything else he sucks at. Know who else wins faceoffs and is good at nothing else? Dave steckel.
- joel878

grabo was minus 10 this year?

ur trying to argue that the leafs management think grabo was a better player but bought him out and signed bozak.
- derm10

No. Which is why in telling you I'm embarrassed for you.

It doesn't matter what leaf management thought, because they (frank)ed it up. Just like they've regularly (frank)ed up everything for close to 50 years.

I'm saying grabovski is better, because its obvious. 4 years of numbers.. 4 years of gameplay. Grabovski has been better at literally everything but faceoffs. This is literally not even close. The majority of drunk bozak supporters won't even back you on this.

grabo was minus 10 this year?
- derm10

Weird. You mean he played in a defensive role, and not on the teams top offensive line?

You're hurting my head.

Fair enough. But skills are whats being debated here. im looking at everything they bring on the ice. Im not debating whos nicer off the nice.
Im saying as an overall hockey player, Grabovski is better than Bozak. And I cant believe people cant see this.
- UsernameUnknown

nah .. he's selfish.. he needs his puck time.. if he doesn't get it he doesn;t produce.... cant win a draw to save his life.... so at time he's better then bozak.. but for an 82 game sched and a playoff run i want someone who shows up day in and day out... wins the faceoffs and pays attention to the little things.

why do u think grabo is better then bozak as a member of a team.. not as a individual skill set.
- derm10

member of a team.. well, those are hard to assess and can be subjective, and opinionated.
Skill set is easier to determine though facts.

More to it than just that as well.
Add it all up.
1) Grabos contract was too big, we needed a cheaper option (every million counts at this point, look who is left to sign and how much we have)
2) Carlyle didn't want him on the team. It has nothing to do with being better or worse overall than another, but because Grabo couldn't adjust to the style. And after what Grabo said, Id be willing to bet there were personal tensions between the two.
3) I'm sure there is a hope that Kessel will sign a bit cheaper, or at least easier, now that Nonis kept his boytoy.

You dont get it. Still. There is no way to say we kept Bozak because he is a better player. for two reasons. 1) hes not a better player. Look at the stats. 2) You aren't the GM. Skillset is not, and will never be, the only factor with who stays and who goes.
- UsernameUnknown

Skill set is also not what makes a player a better or worst hockey player. I grew up with a guy that was 2nd in OHL to Eric Lindros but couldn't play in then a handful NHL for a multitude of reasons. Skill wise, no one is arguing that Grabs has Bozak beat but that better skill set doesn't make him a better hockey player.

-Your point 1 is just wrong - you obviously are not a business person.
-Your point 2 also makes no sense because you claim that Grabovski is better offensively and defensively then Bozak - impossible that he would fit RC's system better if that were true.
-Your point 3 is the only valid point I cannot disagree with but I just can't see that being the reason the Leafs chose Bozak over Grabs considering what it cost them.