You want to credit bozak with the improved penalty kill?

This just in.. Bozak was a penalty killer when the PK was the laughing stock of the NHL for 3 years to.

I am clearly fueling this by responding, but you both have no idea what you're talking about.
- joel878

Joel, honestly, your hockey IQ is extremely low. Just out of curiosity, have you eve actually played the sport.
Not that you have to play the sport to understand it, but that definitely helps.

I am asking because you clearly think that one guy should be able to be the only difference on a PK line. Forget about the system put in place and who is playing with....
I just realize that you really don't have a clue what you are talking about and it really doesn't sound like you actually played the sport either.

OK, I'll weigh in on this one. Bozak is 3 years younger and still developing. Grabovski has hit his limit and under Carlyle is redundant. He's not as good in his own end as Bozak and not as good at winning faceoffs. We all talk about Bozak as riding Kessel's coat-tails. What you don't see, is maybe Bozak makes Kessel a better player. Kessel has confidence in the way Bozak plays and has chemistry with him. Is it co-incidence that Kessel's numbers have put him in the top 10 in scoring the last couple of years? Bozak does the small things and free's Kessel up to do what he does best. Grabovski had no chemistry with Kessel, or any of the other top 6 players on the team. His best success came with Kulimen and MacArthur, bonified 3rd line players. When given a task by Randy Carlyle, he didn't perform up to standards, of a $5.5 million dollar hockey player. Where Bozak was popular with his team-mates, on and off the ice, Grabo came off as selfish and aloof. Under Randy Carlyle, he was a millstone around the neck of this team, going forward. The right and proper choice was made, considering that there was nothing better out there, in free agency.
- PrinceLH

well said...

other then point totals from years that the leafs sucked... do u have anything to back up grabo?
- derm10

Don't need anything else, you just said it. Grabovski put up better numbers on worse teams, with less talented numbers.. And you still think you have an argument here?

who's the better penalty killer?
- derm10

Got 2. Okay. whos better defensively 5-5.
I give credit to where its do. Im gonna save some time and show it how I see it

Bozak
- PK
-Faceoffs
-shootout (not important enough to actually matter IMO)
-Friends with Phil Kessel

Grabovski
-Better offensively 5-5
-Better defensively 5-5
-Faster
-More physical. (Hes not physical by any standard, but still more so than Bozak)
-Higher point totals with lesser linemates (that's a biggie. Point totals. Look at Grabovskis, then at Bozaks. Then back at Grabos just to make sure.) Then laugh at yourself.
-Better shot

It's people like you two that have no concept of the last 50 years because you're to busy drunk with the blue and white beer goggles, promoting every move the leafs make as the next amazing move that's gonna win a cup. Out buying your jerseys, because these amazingly average plugs that can never get the team everywhere have just signed big contracts with the team.

Keep on believing boys! It's people like you that have kept this franchise a laughing stock.
- joel878

i'm in my 20's... so haven't been around that long.
and by no means do i like every move the leafs make.
haven't bought a jersey since i got a dougy jersey back in the day(has the "A")
and to the amazingly average plugs comment.... the team is now full of young players who are in the prime or soon tt entering their prime...... and those plugs made the playoffs last year..doesn;t same much about their competition then.

OK, I'll weigh in on this one. Bozak is 3 years younger and still developing. Grabovski has hit his limit and under Carlyle is redundant. He's not as good in his own end as Bozak and not as good at winning faceoffs. We all talk about Bozak as riding Kessel's coat-tails. What you don't see, is maybe Bozak makes Kessel a better player. Kessel has confidence in the way Bozak plays and has chemistry with him. Is it co-incidence that Kessel's numbers have put him in the top 10 in scoring the last couple of years? Bozak does the small things and free's Kessel up to do what he does best. Grabovski had no chemistry with Kessel, or any of the other top 6 players on the team. His best success came with Kulimen and MacArthur, bonafied 3rd line players. When given a task by Randy Carlyle, he didn't perform up to standards, of a $5.5 million dollar hockey player. Where Bozak was popular with his team-mates, on and off the ice, Grabo came off as selfish and aloof. Under Randy Carlyle, he was a millstone around the neck of this team, going forward. The right and proper choice was made, considering that there was nothing better out there, in free agency.
- PrinceLH

What is going on here lately.

This outlook with grabovski is all well and good. The problem, us when it comes to kessel and bozak, you are wrong. And I don't meant it to be rude.. But you are. There are endless stats around to support kessels production has been worse with bozak.

This is the problem. People love bozak around because he's great for kessel, and wins faceoffs. Both of these are wrong. He's one of the worst top line centers in every stat category in the league (including faceoffs), and kessels numbers are worse with him than with any other center he's played with. Ever.

It's time for people to drop the blue and white glasses, and wake up.

http://theleafsnation.com...d-his-last-game-as-a-leaf

Don't need anything else, you just said it. Grabovski put up better numbers on worse teams, with less talented numbers.. And you still think you have an argument here?
- joel878

so then why isn;t he signed yet?

Don't need anything else, you just said it. Grabovski put up better numbers on worse teams, with less talented numbers.. And you still think you have an argument here?
- joel878

And he didn't lead the Leafs into the playoffs, all the years that he was here. Who was better in this year's playoffs? Grabo or Bozak? Even injured, Bozak was more of an asset then Grabo. With a bad shoulder, he still played better and was missed, in the final game of that series. A healthy Bozak and we win that series. With a healthy Grabo, we didn't win the series.

Got 2. Okay. whos better defensively 5-5.
I give credit to where its do. Im gonna save some time and show it how I see it

Bozak
- PK
-Faceoffs
-shootout (not important enough to actually matter IMO)
-Friends with Phil Kessel

Grabovski
-Better offensively 5-5
-Better defensively 5-5
-Faster
-More physical. (Hes not physical by any standard, but still more so than Bozak)
-Higher point totals with lesser linemates (that's a biggie. Point totals. Look at Grabovskis, then at Bozaks. Then back at Grabos just to make sure.) Then laugh at yourself.
-Better shot
- UsernameUnknown

First off, you are wrong on above but I don't want to waste time with the same poop over and over...

Your partner in crime says it was you that has been saying that a big reason for Grabs being dumped was because he didn't fit RC's system. If what you say above is true, how could Bozak fit RC's system better then Grabovski?

Don't need anything else, you just said it. Grabovski put up better numbers on worse teams, with less talented numbers.. And you still think you have an argument here?
- joel878

Sorry to jump ship, my friend, but Im out. Hopefully you can handle the delusional pipsqueeks on your own. But just remember, the masses don't mean they are right.
After all, billions of people believe the earth is 6000 years old.

I believe Bozak wins 2 more than him per 100 faceoffs. Or something similar.
And I highly disagree with Grabo not showing up. Dude had the biggest heart on the team. He showed up to play every night. Doesnt mean hed produce though. but he tried. Plus its hard to produce any offense on a shutdown line.
- UsernameUnknown

Except that he really didn't shut anyone down either, did he?

I like Grabo and wish him well, but getting knocked on your ass a lot and getting back up doesn't justify a 5.5 million dollar salary.

The best stretch of hockey he played all year was 2 points and -10 in 7 games. Sorry, Mikhail, but your time is up here.

What is going on here lately.

This outlook with grabovski is all well and good. The problem, us when it comes to kessel and bozak, you are wrong. And I don't meant it to be rude.. But you are. There are endless stats around to support kessels production has been worse with bozak.

This is the problem. People love bozak around because he's great for kessel, and wins faceoffs. Both of these are wrong. He's one of the worst top line centers in every stat category in the league (including faceoffs), and kessels numbers are worse with him than with any other center he's played with. Ever.

It's time for people to drop the blue and white glasses, and wake up.

http://theleafsnation.com...d-his-last-game-as-a-leaf
- joel878

u got a link to those stats that back up that kessel plays better without bozak?

Except that he really didn't shut anyone down either, did he?

I like Grabo and wish him well, but getting knocked on your ass a lot and getting back up doesn't justify a 5.5 million dollar salary.

The best stretch of hockey he played all year was 2 points and -10 in 7 games. Sorry, Mikhail, but your time is up here.
- Leeman4Gilmour

And I agree completely. He wasn't good at 3C and his payroll was too much. He played poopty this year. But one bad half season doesn't make a guy a bad player.

What is going on here lately.

This outlook with grabovski is all well and good. The problem, us when it comes to kessel and bozak, you are wrong. And I don't meant it to be rude.. But you are. There are endless stats around to support kessels production has been worse with bozak.

This is the problem. People love bozak around because he's great for kessel, and wins faceoffs. Both of these are wrong. He's one of the worst top line centers in every stat category in the league (including faceoffs), and kessels numbers are worse with him than with any other center he's played with. Ever.

It's time for people to drop the blue and white glasses, and wake up.

http://theleafsnation.com...d-his-last-game-as-a-leaf
- joel878

Stats? Corsi numbers said that the Florida Panthers where a better team than the Toronto Maple Leafs. Do you believe those stats? The only stats are wins and loses. Bozak fits the Leafs, Grabovski does not.

i'm in my 20's... so haven't been around that long.
and by no means do i like every move the leafs make.
haven't bought a jersey since i got a dougy jersey back in the day(has the "A")
and to the amazingly average plugs comment.... the team is now full of young players who are in the prime or soon tt entering their prime...... and those plugs made the playoffs last year..doesn;t same much about their competition then.
- derm10

That group would have been hard pressed to make the playoffs in an 82 game season.

I've watched enough leaf editions, and seen every single one if these teams max themselves out as perennial second round contenders by becoming content with average to mediocre players. That is in no way shape or form what's happening here, and this season will be a wake up calls to slot of you dreamers.

This team is in no way shape or form a cup contender, and the required moves to elevate it to that level in the future are being limited by ridiculous cap management this summer.

Sorry to jump ship, my friend, but Im out. Hopefully you can handle the delusional pipsqueeks on your own. But just remember, the masses don't mean they are right.
After all, billions of people believe the earth is 6000 years old.
- UsernameUnknown

that explains it alll

Sorry to jump ship, my friend, but Im out. Hopefully you can handle the delusional pipsqueeks on your own. But just remember, the masses don't mean they are right.
After all, billions of people believe the earth is 6000 years old.
- UsernameUnknown

cheers.

And I agree completely. He wasn't good at 3C and his payroll was too much. He played poopty this year. But one bad half season doesn't make a guy a bad player.
- UsernameUnknown

No, not by any stretch. He just wasn't a good fit.

If the cap hasn't dropped 6 mil, he'd still be here without a doubt.

u got a link to those stats that back up that kessel plays better without bozak?
- derm10

BOZAK Goals/60 Points/60 Goals % Corsi % TOI
With Kessel 0.65 1.67 47.9% 48.1% 2769:52
Without Kessel 0.31 0.82 36.4% 43.6% 584:20
KESSEL Goals/60 Points/60 Goals % Corsi % TOI
With Bozak 0.95 2.27 47.9% 48.1% 2769:52
Without Bozak 1.28 2.09 51.7% 50.7% 1495:05

About half way down on that page.

Trying to argue that bozak is a better all around player than grabovski is absolutely ridiculous. One of the worst arguments I've ever seen on here.

We're talking about a player who had a poor 48 games in the last 5 years, under a new coach who he didn't mesh with, compared to a player who needs one of the better scorers in the game to get his can on before each game.

There are third liners, regularly playing with other third liners who could give bozak a run for his money talent wise on any given night. It's been statistically proven that even kessel puts up better numbers more consistently without bozak.

Horrible argument.
- joel878

See, we don't disagree on everything

That group would have been hard pressed to make the playoffs in an 82 game season.

I've watched enough leaf editions, and seen every single one if these teams max themselves out as perennial second round contenders by becoming content with average to mediocre players. That is in no way shape or form what's happening here, and this season will be a wake up calls to slot of you dreamers.

This team is in no way shape or form a cup contender, and the required moves to elevate it to that level in the future are being limited by ridiculous cap management this summer.
- joel878

well then lets just wait and see what happens this year... still no reason why grabo isn;t signed yet... if he's soooo good?

BOZAK Goals/60 Points/60 Goals % Corsi % TOI
With Kessel 0.65 1.67 47.9% 48.1% 2769:52
Without Kessel 0.31 0.82 36.4% 43.6% 584:20
KESSEL Goals/60 Points/60 Goals % Corsi % TOI
With Bozak 0.95 2.27 47.9% 48.1% 2769:52
Without Bozak 1.28 2.09 51.7% 50.7% 1495:05

About half way down on that page.
- joel878

?????? this all means nothin to mean..... giveme a link... i can make up stat lines too.

Stats? Corsi numbers said that the Florida Panthers where a better team than the Toronto Maple Leafs. Do you believe those stats? The only stats are wins and loses. Bozak fits the Leafs, Grabovski does not.
- PrinceLH

There are more to stats than Corsi numbers.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the la kings, Chicago, or Boston would have spit all over every single stat Tyler bozak brought to the table, in every capacity.

?????? this all means nothin to mean..... giveme a link... i can make up stat lines too.
- derm10

Again man.. I just gave you the (frank)ing link a few posts up!

First off, you are wrong on above but I don't want to waste time with the same poop over and over...

Your partner in crime says it was you that has been saying that a big reason for Grabs being dumped was because he didn't fit RC's system. If what you say above is true, how could Bozak fit RC's system better then Grabovski?
- Cooshie

I don't know......Kessels seems to be able to score with him, on his line. Without Kessel, this team is about as good as the Flyers. For the sake of keeping Kessel motivated, it's important to keep him happy and productive. If Grabovski was the better option, then he would still be on this team. We can all love a player, but sometimes you have to put aside personal preferences and decide, "do you want to advance in the playoffs?" If you do, you have to get over the personal attachment to a certain players and accept a player that may be an as$hole, if he makes the team win. See Dion Phaneuf..........