Really? I was talking about Hockey. Unless of course Hockey is all about offense. Tampa Bay was 3rd in the League in goals per game. They missed the playoffs.
- MJL

I was simply talking about their abilities offensively. Stop looking for arguments.

@MJL

In 2 years (in my theoretical fantasy world):
Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Vinny - Simmonds
Gagne/Talbot - Laughton - Read
Rinaldo - Hall - Talbot/McGinn

In 2 years I think that 3rd line would still be great. Laughton has the potential to fill in Coots's spot on the PK and on the 3rd line. Of course it's not a perfect swap, but would you rather have a 3rd line of Gagne/Talbot - Laughton - Read in 2 years, and also have a suitable replacement for Kimmo? Or would you rather have a 3rd line in 2 years of Gagne/Talbot - Couturier - Read, and still have a gaping hole on defense that Kimmo leaves behind? I think we need to weigh our priorities. We get all these guys (Coots, BSchenn, Laughton) on the basis of best available player/prospect through drafting and trading, so that we'll be able to trade them for what we actually need because they'll hopefully have more value than that Dman we passed up on to get them. Now nobody wants to move those guys for needs, because why? Sentimental connection to the player? I love Coots but if the right deal came along for a #1 Dman I'd trade him in a heartbeat. We have no problems at all with centers. We have a solid 1a and 1b centers for the next few years, even if Coots emerges as an elite talent. We do have a big upcoming problem with defense next offseason, though. My hope is that Coots has an outstanding season, emerges as an elite talent, becomes the bargain player of the whole league for the next 2 years, and he becomes the main part of a trade for a Weber, Pietrangelo, or OEL, instead of just a bargaining chip.
- JAKEw1234

When did I argue or disagree with trading Couturier for a true #1 defenseman? What I object to, is the flawed premise that Laughton makes Couturier expendable somehow. Or that Couturier is forever sentenced to a Hockey life as a 3rd line Center. Have you given any thought towards what happens 2-3 years from now, when Lecavalier's play starts to slip? And Couturier will be all of 23 years old? And probably just starting to become the player he has the potential to be?

When did I argue or disagree with trading Couturier for a true #1 defenseman? What I object to, is the flawed premise that Laughton makes Couturier expendable somehow. Or that Couturier is forever sentenced to a Hockey life as a 3rd line Center. Have you given any thought towards what happens 2-3 years from now, when Lecavalier's play starts to slip? And Couturier will be all of 23 years old? And probably just starting to become the player he has the potential to be?
- MJL

Even so I'd still rather have a #1 dman than a great 1b center.

I was simply talking about their abilities offensively. Stop looking for arguments.
- JAKEw1234

Follow the conversation. It was about the Flyers competing. It's going to take more then offense to get there. The Flyers weren't a poor offensive team last year, because they lacked offensive talent.

Even so I'd still rather have a #1 dman than a great 1b center.
- JAKEw1234

So would I. Never disputed that. Who is that going to be?

So would I. Never disputed that. Who is that going to be?
- MJL

Depends how good Coots gets this year.

Follow the conversation. It was about the Flyers competing. It's going to take more then offense to get there. The Flyers weren't a poor offensive team last year, because they lacked offensive talent.
- MJL

My point was only that if Schenn and Coots have breakout years, we'll be an offensively dominant team, instead of just a good offensive team like someone else said. Now you've changed the topic to you can't win cups with only offense. I don't disagree with you, it's just not at all what I was talking about.

Depends how good Coots gets this year.
- JAKEw1234

It does? Couturier could have a fantastic year this upcoming Season. He could score 25 goals and 60 pts. He could play strong 2 way Hockey. He's not getting the Flyers a #1 defenseman in a trade.

It does? Couturier could have a fantastic year this upcoming Season. He could score 25 goals and 60 pts. He could play strong 2 way Hockey. He's not getting the Flyers a #1 defenseman in a trade.
- MJL

The point is, if he can shift from a bargaining chip to the main part of a trade it will help us a lot.

My point was only that if Schenn and Coots have breakout years, we'll be an offensively dominant team, instead of just a good offensive team like someone else said. Now you've changed the topic to you can't win cups with only offense. I don't disagree with you, it's just not at all what I was talking about.
- JAKEw1234

I never mentioned a Cup. I'll see if I can make my point clearer. If the Flyers don't improve their all around game. Become a much harder team to play against in all 3 zones. Become much better as a team defensively. It's not going to matter how many points Couturier and Schenn score. There is no separation there. It is all linked together. Or you become a team like TB who was ranked 3rd in the League in goals per game, and watched the playoffs on TV. The conversation was clearly about the Flyers competing with the top teams. That's the conversation you were replying to.

The point is, if he can shift from a bargaining chip to the main part of a trade it will help us a lot.
- JAKEw1234

Don't see what the difference is.

I never mentioned a Cup. I'll see if I can make my point clearer. If the Flyers don't improve their all around game. Become a much harder team to play against in all 3 zones. Become much better as a team defensively. It's not going to matter how many points Couturier and Schenn score. There is no separation there. It is all linked together. Or you become a team like TB who was ranked 3rd in the League in goals per game, and watched the playoffs on TV. The conversation was clearly about the Flyers competing with the top teams. That's the conversation you were replying to.
- MJL

Ok.

Don't see what the difference is.
- MJL

In the trade that Toronto fan brought in earlier, he offered a theoretical Franson and Colbourne for Couturier. Franson is the main part of that trade, Colbourne is a "sweetener", he's a bargaining chip to make things more even, because despite Franson being the main asset coming to us, he does not have enough value to get Couturier by himself.

In the trade that Toronto fan brought in earlier, he offered a theoretical Franson and Colbourne for Couturier. Franson is the main part of that trade, Colbourne is a "sweetener", he's a bargaining chip to make things more even, because despite Franson being the main asset coming to us, he does not have enough value to get Couturier by himself.
- JAKEw1234

That's just labeling players . Trades are about equal value. And for meeting a team's needs. Regardless of what you want to label a player. I think trading Couturier to get a true #1 defenseman, makes sense. All the other reason you offered for trading him, doesn't make sense.
And I think it's going to be a considerable amount of time, for Couturier to be worth a #1 defenseman in a trade.

That's just labeling players . Trades are about equal value. And for meeting a team's needs. Regardless of what you want to label a player. I think trading Couturier to get a true #1 defenseman, makes sense. All the other reason you offered for trading him, doesn't make sense.
And I think it's going to be a considerable amount of time, for Couturier to be worth a #1 defenseman in a trade.
- MJL

Of course he wouldn't be the only piece. My point is that I hope this season he can turn into the guy who we're adding a few sweeteners to, instead of the guy who is one of those sweeteners. Right now if we wanted to trade for Pietrangelo, Coots wouldn't be the main part of the trade, he'd be a side piece to help even the value. Theoretically, if Edmonton made an offer of Hall, and prospect, and a pick for Pietrangelo, Hall would be the main part of the trade. I'm not saying Couturier could be as valuable as Hall, but if we could get him to the point where we're trading Couturier, Cousins, and 2 1st round picks for Pietrangelo instead of trading something like Couturier, Coburn, an extended Matt Read, cousins, and 2 1st round picks for Pietrangelo then it will help us. And of course it's just labeling players, what's wrong with that?

Of course he wouldn't be the only piece. My point is that I hope this season he can turn into the guy who we're adding a few sweeteners to, instead of the guy who is one of those sweeteners. Right now if we wanted to trade for Pietrangelo, Coots wouldn't be the main part of the trade, he'd be a side piece to help even the value. Theoretically, if Edmonton made an offer of Hall, and prospect, and a pick for Pietrangelo, Hall would be the main part of the trade. I'm not saying Couturier could be as valuable as Hall, but if we could get him to the point where we're trading Couturier, Cousins, and 2 1st round picks for Pietrangelo instead of trading something like Couturier, Coburn, an extended Matt Read, cousins, and 2 1st round picks for Pietrangelo then it will help us. And of course it's just labeling players, what's wrong with that?
- JAKEw1234

This ranks up there with your proposed trade for Weber in another thread. Extreme overpayment. St. Louis is not trading Pietrangelo. Regardless of how good Couturier gets. That's the whole point. Instead of labeling players sweeteners, or the main part. Let's look at trades realistically.
My point is that I hope Couturier turns into the guy we're building a potential Cup winner around, along with Giroux, Voracek, etc. And having Laughton and Lecavalier doesn't change that.

You want Pietrangelo? Start with offering Giroux. That's about the only chance. No sweetener needed.

This ranks up there with your proposed trade for Weber in another thread. Extreme overpayment. St. Louis is not trading Pietrangelo. Regardless of how good Couturier gets. That's the whole point. Instead of labeling players sweeteners, or the main part. Let's look at trades realistically.
My point is that I hope Couturier turns into the guy we're building a potential Cup winner around, along with Giroux, Voracek, etc. And having Laughton and Lecavalier doesn't change that.

You want Pietrangelo? Start with offering Giroux. That's about the only chance. No sweetener needed.
- MJL

We're talking in theoreticals. I'm saying if a trade for Piet was theoretically going to happen, not if St Louis is trading Piet at all.

We're talking in theoreticals. I'm saying if a trade for Piet was theoretically going to happen, not if St Louis is trading Piet at all.
- JAKEw1234

So in other words, fantasy. Might as well be playing NHL 13. I prefer reality. That's what I'm talking about.

So in other words, fantasy. Might as well be playing NHL 13. I prefer reality. That's what I'm talking about.
- MJL

cool

So in other words, fantasy. Might as well be playing NHL 13. I prefer reality. That's what I'm talking about.
- MJL

And the reality is what?

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Tuesday Quick Hits on Olympics, Jagr, Simmonds and More
- bmeltzer

It's pretty that Jagr wanted to come back and that Gagne is still a possibility. Most of the former and current players have seemed pretty happy here outside of Bryzgalov and Prospal. Everyone knows Rick Tocchet openly wanted out but had a change of heart when he eventually made a return.

And the reality is what?
- GirouxForTheShow

The reality is, that they won't be trading for Alex Pietrangelo any time soon. It's like suggesting that they trade for Crosby

The reality is, that they won't be trading for Alex Pietrangelo any time soon. It's like suggesting that they trade for Crosby
- Jsaquella

Sure except the Penguins aren't rumored to be listening to offers for Crosby because they're having issues resigning him, and Pietrangelo isn't the closest thing to Mario Lemiuex in today's league. Oh and Pietrangelo doesn't play for a fierce rival, and also plays defense, But other than that it's exactly the same.

Sure except the Penguins aren't rumored to be listening to offers for Crosby because they're having issues resigning him, and Pietrangelo isn't the closest thing to Mario Lemiuex in today's league. Oh and Pietrangelo doesn't play for a fierce rival, and also plays defense, But other than that it's exactly the same.
- JAKEw1234

The reason the rumors are out there is because Pietrangelo is un-signed. That's it. He's not getting traded, and if he does, it will be for a massive haul going back.

There were rumors Lindros was getting traded every summer, too.

The reason the rumors are out there is because Pietrangelo is un-signed. That's it. He's not getting traded, and if he does, it will be for a massive haul going back.

There were rumors Lindros was getting traded every summer, too.
- Jsaquella

Think there were rumors that Gretzky was getting traded, too?