some trades I would support happening
Coots +++ for Pietrangelo
Coots ++ for OELarsson
Coots + for Hamilton
Coots for Rielly + (some small asset, just on the basis that he isn't NHL proven yet)
Coots + for Gardiner ++ (just cause he won't be a stud like Rielly, but I definitely see him being a great #2 guy)
You guys have 2 really valuable young dmen. Which of these trades would you most like to see happen?
- JAKEw1234

The first two aren't happening. I wouldn't make any of the other deals.

The first two aren't happening. I wouldn't make any of the other deals.
- MJL

Agreed.

I don't believe that's true... There's only 1 Leaf fan on this site that doesn't think Gardiner is probably a future top pairing D (soon) and most would trade him for Coutourier in a heartbeat, depending on what else was included.

Having Rielly helps though. Without Rielly in system, probably wouldn't consider it.
- Big_Lightnin

I don't think you can assume Gardiner will be a top pairing dman at this point. It would be like assuming Couturier is going to be a Selke candidate every year. They each have that potential but potential is what they reach if EVERYTHING goes right.

Agreed.
- BulliesPhan87

Ratified.

some trades I would support happening
Coots +++ for Pietrangelo
Coots ++ for OELarsson
Coots + for Hamilton
Coots for Rielly + (some small asset, just on the basis that he isn't NHL proven yet)
Coots + for Gardiner ++ (just cause he won't be a stud like Rielly, but I definitely see him being a great #2 guy)
You guys have 2 really valuable young dmen. Which of these trades would you most like to see happen?
- JAKEw1234

Rielly's not going anywhere yet, unless it was in a deal for a legit #1C.

assuming the + in Gardiner and Couts aren't 1st rounders, that works.

I don't think you can assume Gardiner will be a top pairing dman at this point. It would be like assuming Couturier is going to be a Selke candidate every year. They each have that potential but potential is what they reach if EVERYTHING goes right.
- PhillySportsGuy

I did say Probably.

And Gardiner sure looked like a top pairing D against Boston. Took him a while to adjust to what Carlyle wanted, cause Wilson just told him "go nuts."

I think he's going to have huge year. Not looking to dump him by any means.

The first two aren't happening. I wouldn't make any of the other deals.
- MJL

given Cout's cap hit the next 3 years, ya probably not.

some trades I would support happening
Coots +++ for Pietrangelo
Coots ++ for OELarsson
Coots + for Hamilton
Coots for Rielly + (some small asset, just on the basis that he isn't NHL proven yet)
Coots + for Gardiner ++ (just cause he won't be a stud like Rielly, but I definitely see him being a great #2 guy)
- JAKEw1234

Couturier would one of the pluses in the first two trades, not the main component, so those aren't even really proposals. They're like saying Toronto would trade Gardiner +++ for Giroux.

And the other proposals are all bad for the Flyers because they have no one to take Couturier's role as the 3C.

I did say Probably.

And Gardiner sure looked like a top pairing D against Boston. Took him a while to adjust to what Carlyle wanted, cause Wilson just told him "go nuts."

I think he's going to have huge year. Not looking to dump him by any means.
- Big_Lightnin

JVR looked like a future top 10 player against Boston 2 years ago in the playoffs. We now know he's just inconsistent. It's impossible to predict which players will develop into top players when they haven't played much.

Leaf prospects are like Yankee prospects. They are usually overrated.

You know what the killer is? It's not like some of those guys are young, up and coming.

Enstrom and Buflygien (God, I can't spell that guy's name) are each 2003 picks. Ladd and Wheeler are '04s. Pavelec's an '05, Little's an '06.

In hockey years, with the way the league is nowadays...those guys are what they are, with maybe the exception of Pavelec, as a goalie. And what they are...well, as a whole, should that core really be fronting an organization?

I'm absolutely not saying they should move Evander Kane or Zach Bogosian. They absolutely shouldn't. They've got Schiefle, and Jacob Trouba looks like he's going to be a good one.

But man...I don't know. I just am baffled at how you lock up Bryan Little for 5 years. To do what, exactly? Get 50 points again as your No. 1 center? Because really, that's the player he is. And that's just not good enough, in the NHL.
- AllInForFlyers

I happen to agree with you, you see it all the time. The Rangers of the late 90s, though the 2004 lockout are a prime example.

The Flyers basically fell into that trap in the early 80s. After catching lightning in a bottle in 79-80, they held onto many of those players for far too long. I loved Paul Holmgren as a player, but he probably should have been moved by the summer of 82 at the earliest. Also guys like Paddock, Behn Wilson, Glen Cochrane, Frank Bathe were also held onto for too long. And, although it really hurts to even type this, the Flyers should have considered trading Billy Barber by 82 or so. They already had Propp to step in as 1st line left wing at that point and in 82 Barber could have still got them a 1st round pick and a good young player or 2.

It wasn't until the mid 80s, when they brought in a whole slew of young forwards to go with their solid top 4 on D and Lindbergh in net, that they became a contender again.

At least in the Flyers defense, they were smart enough to catch on pretty quickly and adjust while teams like Winnipeg, and, until last season Toronto, just seem to stumble on year after year.

You know what the killer is? It's not like some of those guys are young, up and coming.

Enstrom and Buflygien (God, I can't spell that guy's name) are each 2003 picks. Ladd and Wheeler are '04s. Pavelec's an '05, Little's an '06.

In hockey years, with the way the league is nowadays...those guys are what they are, with maybe the exception of Pavelec, as a goalie. And what they are...well, as a whole, should that core really be fronting an organization?

I'm absolutely not saying they should move Evander Kane or Zach Bogosian. They absolutely shouldn't. They've got Schiefle, and Jacob Trouba looks like he's going to be a good one.

But man...I don't know. I just am baffled at how you lock up Bryan Little for 5 years. To do what, exactly? Get 50 points again as your No. 1 center? Because really, that's the player he is. And that's just not good enough, in the NHL.
- AllInForFlyers

From someone in the city itself...

The whole notion when the Jets moved here, and it was said by management and ownership is that the rebuild would take time, and for the fanbase to have patience. I am not a fan of the team by any means, but it appears they are trying to ice somewhat of a competative team while drafting the best that they can. Brian Little helps keep the team competative, while not locking them down to a truly monster contract. Its a competative stop-gap essentially imo.

The temp does range from 95F in the summer to -31F in winter, and it is kind of a ghetto city. The FA pool wont be looking at Winnipeg as a priority, they are forced to build through the draft.

"albeit a small sample"

Your point is thwarted.

Opinions on Homer's tenure, pls
- Giroux_Is_God

How was it thwarted? You used the same sample when you said Lavi changed the defense excet the change didn't even help Bryz. You're proving my point. Homer has made mistakes and never should have signed him but I think he's won the majority of his trades and found some hidden gems in Umberger and Read.

I happen to agree with you, you see it all the time. The Rangers of the late 90s, though the 2004 lockout are a prime example.

The Flyers basically fell into that trap in the early 80s. After catching lightning in a bottle in 79-80, they held onto many of those players for far too long. I loved Paul Holmgren as a player, but he probably should have been moved by the summer of 82 at the earliest. Also guys like Paddock, Behn Wilson, Glen Cochrane, Frank Bathe were also held onto for too long. And, although it really hurts to even type this, the Flyers should have considered trading Billy Barber by 82 or so. They already had Propp to step in as 1st line left wing at that point and in 82 Barber could have still got them a 1st round pick and a good young player or 2.

It wasn't until the mid 80s, when they brought in a whole slew of young forwards to go with their solid top 4 on D and Lindbergh in net, that they became a contender again.

At least in the Flyers defense, they were smart enough to catch on pretty quickly and adjust while teams like Winnipeg, and, until last season Toronto, just seem to stumble on year after year.
- BiggE

One of the major issues surrounding teams like Winnipeg is that they haven't found that #1 center.

How was it thwarted? You used the same sample when you said Lavi changed the defense excet the change didn't even help Bryz. You're proving my point. Homer has made mistakes and never should have signed him but I think he's won the majority of his trades and found some hidden gems in Umberger and Read.
- lar6767

Umberger wasn't really hidden. He was a first round pick that never signed.

Couturier would one of the pluses in the first two trades, not the main component, so those aren't even really proposals. They're like saying Toronto would trade Gardiner +++ for Giroux.

And the other proposals are all bad for the Flyers because they have no one to take Couturier's role as the 3C.
- Feanor

I was thinking next offseason would be better timing for a big trade like this.

1. Timonen would be retiring, so whoever we get could seam in nicely and just step into Kimmo's shoes, instead of causing a further logjam of sorts at defense.
2. If Couturier steps up big this year and finds his game (as he probably should, he's due), his cap hit will be one of the biggest bargains in the league for the next 2 years. His value will skyrocket.
3. By next offseason, if Laughton's development continues at his current pace, he'll be more than ready to effectively step into the 3rd line center role.

JVR looked like a future top 10 player against Boston 2 years ago in the playoffs. We now know he's just inconsistent. It's impossible to predict which players will develop into top players when they haven't played much.

Leaf prospects are like Yankee prospects. They are usually overrated.
- PhillySportsGuy

But...but... he's on out 1st line


Guess my point was that Gardiner has played 87 NHL games, Couts has played 123. Not really a massive gap in what we've seen from each of them. Both have shown they could be major impact players, but aren't yet.

I happen to agree with you, you see it all the time. The Rangers of the late 90s, though the 2004 lockout are a prime example.

The Flyers basically fell into that trap in the early 80s. After catching lightning in a bottle in 79-80, they held onto many of those players for far too long. I loved Paul Holmgren as a player, but he probably should have been moved by the summer of 82 at the earliest. Also guys like Paddock, Behn Wilson, Glen Cochrane, Frank Bathe were also held onto for too long. And, although it really hurts to even type this, the Flyers should have considered trading Billy Barber by 82 or so. They already had Propp to step in as 1st line left wing at that point and in 82 Barber could have still got them a 1st round pick and a good young player or 2.

It wasn't until the mid 80s, when they brought in a whole slew of young forwards to go with their solid top 4 on D and Lindbergh in net, that they became a contender again.

At least in the Flyers defense, they were smart enough to catch on pretty quickly and adjust while teams like Winnipeg, and, until last season Toronto, just seem to stumble on year after year.
- BiggE

Cant believe I am defending them, but Winnipeg doesnt really have an option. Its either completely sell off assets and hope picks turn out, or keep the newly relocated team slightly competative and continue to build the draft.

Philly has a luxury of an unlimited bank account and is a pretty good destination for the FA pool. Many other teams do not have the luxury, and thats why at times I cut the Flyers little slack. They have all the tools at their disposal, some of which, other teams do not.

How was it thwarted? You used the same sample when you said Lavi changed the defense excet the change didn't even help Bryz. You're proving my point. Homer has made mistakes and never should have signed him but I think he's won the majority of his trades and found some hidden gems in Umberger and Read.
- lar6767

Read and Umberger weren't hidden gems, it's more like he won the giant brawl between NHL teams for the money someone just threw on the ground for the taking.

Who here wants to see Peter Jackson direct a Thundercats movie....
- youarewrong

I'd rather him direct a 15-part miniseries of The Silmarilion.
Part 1 could basically be everything up to the elves awakening.
Part 2 would be everything up to Feanor's death.
You could do 2 parts of Turin and 4 parts of Beren.
You could extend it and do 2 more parts of Numenor.

Who here wants to see Peter Jackson direct a Thundercats movie....
- youarewrong

Is it going to be R rated? If not than no. Peter Jackson should only do R and Unrated movies.

And don't give him more than 2 million to make it or it will be a snoozefest.

But...but... he's on out 1st line


Guess my point was that Gardiner has played 87 NHL games, Couts has played 123. Not really a massive gap in what we've seen from each of them. Both have shown they could be major impact players, but aren't yet.
- Big_Lightnin

You'll find out soon enough about JVRs ups and downs.

I think the primary point is that the Flyers are looking for a more proven commodity if they trade Couturier. It's not about whats fair in terms of value, but what the team needs.

Obviously we don't expect to trade Couturier straight up for a current top pairing young dman. He would be part of a bigger package.

One of the major issues surrounding teams like Winnipeg is that they haven't found that #1 center.
- PhillySportsGuy

Scheifele will be a lock to make next years team.

We will see how bringing him along slowly, compared to Coots will translate.

But...but... he's on out 1st line


Guess my point was that Gardiner has played 87 NHL games, Couts has played 123. Not really a massive gap in what we've seen from each of them. Both have shown they could be major impact players, but aren't yet.
- Big_Lightnin

Ya everybody in the league is inconsistent according to some people
It's just that JVR has now shown that he probably won't be an elite top 10-15 player, but still a solid 1st line power forward. Just like how Luke Schenn has shown he won't be that perennial Norris candidate, carbon copy of Pronger that some thought he would be, but he'll certainly be a solid #2, top pairing shutdown Dman.

Steve Mason is, to me, more well-suited to play in front of a deficient defense. The outrageous amount of oddman rushes last season (up to an including the season finale) have a better chance of being stopped by an agile mobile goalie as opposed to a guy who relies on squaring up on the shot. Mason is quicker moving side-to-side, and that allowed him to handle the breakdowns better.

I really don't get what you're trying to prove though. That Mason looked better in an 8-game preview (as a fresh goalie after losing his job to Bobrovsky) that Bryzgalov over that same span (who, prior to Mason coming over, had played all but 1 game in a condensed season)? No one's debating that. That Bryz did not help himself with his on-ice and off-ice antics? No one's debating that. He didn't play up to his contract is all.
- jmatchett383

This is just dumb. Would you rather have a non athletic sieve playing for you? And Bryz campaigned for the heavy work load so if he couldn't handle it then how is that a reason to excuse him for sucking? The point was just that it seems painfully obvious to everyone outside Philly that Bryz was done so I don't know why we keep making up reasons outside of his play thats keeping him from getting a job.

Serious question:

to Philly:
Cody Franson + Joe Colborne

To Leafs

Coutourier

just wondering.
- Big_Lightnin

Swap out colbourne for gardiner and it's a deal