No. He asked for one stat that could be used to justify the fact that Bieksa is a better defensive player than Phaneuf.
- KB3Point0

Sorry. One stat based on individual play. Better?

The Leafs don't want to dump Dion's contract. Stop spreading this crap. A trade where we give up Franson and Dion and get back Tanev (who I actually like) and Bieksa (who sucks) is awful.

But you must be a Flyers fan to say they can give up Hartnell and gain Dion.
- djamon

But he was 18th in Norris voting in 11/12

I hate that stuff. who cares about this code that GM's have. Your only code should be to make your team better for your fans etc. If you cant get your own RFA signed then someone should offer sheet them. Thats on you as a GM and an organization. Lets see how many time Nashville will offer sheet Philly guys because of that Weber contract. I assume it wont happen a lot. The canucks are a team of Power in the NHL.
- Bluechip23

I don't care about the code if you actually have a chance at getting the player. With Pietrangelo there is zero chance the Blues don't match unless you pay him so much more than he's worth that you'll destroy your own cap for the next 7 years.

Like Gillis offer-sheeting Backes and Davidson offer-sheeting Bernier (for who we should have run (not walked) away from) is the best example of this. Now St. Louis will likely never trade with us while Gillis is GM.
- DariusKnight

Don't forget Burke attempting to rent a barn so that he could fight Lowe!

It's strange one unless you truly believe Mark Frasor is one of the best Dmen in the league?
- walshyleafsfan

He's probably in the top 10.

Never mind, you're right. he's useless. Might as well send him to the ECHL.
- jmatchett383

I didn't say he's useless. There are plenty of cap starved or non-playoff teams who could use a guy like him. Blues just aren't one of them.

since we have Leafs fans in here, what's the plan to sign Kadri, Franson, Fraser and Gunnarsson?

9.7 million left and I'm guessing Kadri and Franson will be at least 7 combined

I acknowledged backchecking as a problem. We played virtually the whole year without our best defensive forward or a 3rd line center. This hurt us defensively. I stated that.

I also acknowledged that our D had a poor year last year, but despite that we still allowed 13 less goals.

Also, Leafs fans can't say the exact same thing about off nights. Did the Leafs have their division wrapped up days before the end of the season and sit most of their top players in the final game, and then end up allowing 7 goals against, therefore inflating their goals against for the season?

I'm tired of Canucks fans looking at individual stats that don't flatter the team and making blanket statements that aren't necessarily even related. I provided an answer to your question. You're the one who has looked at one stat and arbitrarily decided how much of that should be credited to the goaltending and how much to the defence. Do you actually think that the Leafs D is as good, or better, than Vancouver's?
- KB3Point0

I think the Nucks have the better d and Goalies for sure. But I dont think the difference is this astronmical difference that most fans on here think it is that is all I was stating. People are stating the leafs best D man wouldnt even be a top 5 guy on the nucks which is just ridiculous. So that was the basis of my original statement. Woudl I take our d over the leafs. Yes for sure. Maybe not in 2 years when Gardiner Reilly and frason are studs (just a hunch) but right now for this season for sure. I would also take Lu over bernier and Reimer for this year.

Now if somoene said over the next 5 years who would you rather have Id take the leafs situation in D and in net

If it's so frowned upon, why did the GMs allow it to be in the new CBA?
You don't want an offer sheet? Sign your FA's.
- jmatchett383

Because the PA wants it. It ensures that teams have to pay their own players at least market value because another team could. Provides the players a little extra insurance so they can't be completely low balled by their own teams.

since we have Leafs fans in here, what's the plan to sign Kadri, Franson, Fraser and Gunnarsson?

9.7 million left and I'm guessing Kadri and Franson will be at least 7 combined
- IanEsplen

They are screwed. Hence why I think they are shopping Phaneuf. Kadri my guess wants somewhere what Gagner got. Franson at least wants 3 - 4mil. Gunnarson who knows but leafs need to shed some cap. So much for leafs being in cap heaven and nucks dying in cap hell.

Because the PA wants it. It ensures that teams have to pay their own players at least market value because another team could. Provides the players a little extra insurance so they can't be completely low balled by their own teams.
- KB3Point0

But it's such a horrible, undermining, barbaric practice that should be punishable by firing squad. How could these short-sighted owners even allow their GMs this ability?

So the way that Bieksa is better than Phaneuf, quantifiably, is in the most team-based stat in the sport?
- jmatchett383

Hey genius. I never said that Bieksa was better than Phaneuf. I actually said that Phaneuf has more trade value and that the trade that was suggested was a very bad one for the Leafs. I said Phaneuf has much more offensive ability, a cannon of a shot, and the ability to QB a PP. I simply said that Bieksa is a better defensive player, which he is. You asked if there was ANY stat that could be used to back this up. There is.

I think the Nucks have the better d and Goalies for sure. But I dont think the difference is this astronmical difference that most fans on here think it is that is all I was stating. People are stating the leafs best D man wouldnt even be a top 5 guy on the nucks which is just ridiculous. So that was the basis of my original statement. Woudl I take our d over the leafs. Yes for sure. Maybe not in 2 years when Gardiner Reilly and frason are studs (just a hunch) but right now for this season for sure. I would also take Lu over bernier and Reimer for this year.

Now if somoene said over the next 5 years who would you rather have Id take the leafs situation in D and in net
- Bluechip23

Now this I agree with!

Hey genius. I never said that Bieksa was better than Phaneuf. I actually said that Phaneuf has more trade value and that the trade that was suggested was a very bad one for the Leafs. I said Phaneuf has much more offensive ability, a cannon of a shot, and the ability to QB a PP. I simply said that Bieksa is a better defensive player, which he is. You asked if there was ANY stat that could be used to back this up. There is.
- KB3Point0

+/- does not back up anything other than to say that one combination of players is better than another combination of players over a given time. It's a stat, but probably the most useless one ever. Unless you're Bobby Orr.

But it's such a horrible, undermining, barbaric practice that should be punishable by firing squad. How could these short-sighted owners even allow their GMs this ability?
- jmatchett383

There is zero sense in offer sheeting a player if what you offer them is going to be matched. If it has a chance of not being matched then it's worth the risk. The offer sheet to Weber for instance had a chance of not being matched due to how much money was paid up front in the first year and how long it was. With 7 year limits now and even smaller compensation paid out it's much less likely that an offer sheet won't be matched.

since we have Leafs fans in here, what's the plan to sign Kadri, Franson, Fraser and Gunnarsson?

9.7 million left and I'm guessing Kadri and Franson will be at least 7 combined
- IanEsplen

I would expect Kadri get something like Subban, Couture or Duchene money after their entry level contracts. Approx 2.75 mil couple of years. I don't see why he warrants more than those guys to be honest. Gunnar around 2.5mil. so what's that, 5.25mil. Fraser 1.25mil and i think Franson will prove the trickiest. MAybe 3 mil? Total of 9.5mil. My best educated guess.

He asked if there was any stat or context that could be used to back up the fact that Bieksa is a better defensive player than Dion. There is.
- KB3Point0

So Fraser IS better defensively than Bieksa. The I'm afraid Bieksa doesn't have much going for him.

Oh wait...he gives a good interview.

I think the Nucks have the better d and Goalies for sure. But I dont think the difference is this astronmical difference that most fans on here think it is that is all I was stating. People are stating the leafs best D man wouldnt even be a top 5 guy on the nucks which is just ridiculous. So that was the basis of my original statement. Woudl I take our d over the leafs. Yes for sure. Maybe not in 2 years when Gardiner Reilly and frason are studs (just a hunch) but right now for this season for sure. I would also take Lu over bernier and Reimer for this year.

Now if somoene said over the next 5 years who would you rather have Id take the leafs situation in D and in net
- Bluechip23

I think the plan is to get the forwards set, hope Bernier lives up to his potential and in a couple of years have Gardiner, Rielly, Percy, Granberg, Blacker, Finn, Franson, and possibly MacWilliam or Tom Nilsson make up some of the d with some trades or UFA to round it out.

+/- does not back up anything other than to say that one combination of players is better than another combination of players over a given time. It's a stat, but probably the most useless one ever. Unless you're Bobby Orr.
- jmatchett383

Wrong.

Like Gillis offer-sheeting Backes and Davidson offer-sheeting Bernier (for who we should have run (not walked) away from) is the best example of this. Now St. Louis will likely never trade with us while Gillis is GM.
- DariusKnight

The OS is a tool available to all GMs to try and improve their team. If Gms don't want to have their feelings hurt because of it then they should have removed it from the CBA. Any GM who doesn't at least look at using an offer sheet as a way to improve his team isn't doing his job properly. This isn't your beer league man.

Based on St. Louis' defensive play?
Okay. Last year, Read put up 11 goals in 42 games. Over an 82 game season, that's 21.5 goals.

Also last year, Philadelphia scored 2.75 G/GP to St. Louis' 2.58 (1 to 0.93 ratio). That gives Read 20 goals.

Simplistic, and let's say he only scores 16. That's still amazing value for his hit (and salary). Take his PK abilities into consideration and it's even better.
- jmatchett383

He is a great value...but part of that is based on the overall skill level of the Flyer forwards. If he's put on the Blues not only will Hitchcock's system lower his output, but so will the quality of his linemates and opposition faced.

So Fraser IS better defensively than Bieksa. The I'm afraid Bieksa doesn't have much going for him.

Oh wait...he gives a good interview.
- djamon

I said earlier, Fraser's probably a top 10 D-man in the league.

I said earlier, Fraser's probably a top 10 D-man in the league.
- KB3Point0

Think he was 3rd actually.

But he was 18th in Norris voting in 11/12
- IanEsplen

That's quite the peak.

since we have Leafs fans in here, what's the plan to sign Kadri, Franson, Fraser and Gunnarsson?

9.7 million left and I'm guessing Kadri and Franson will be at least 7 combined
- IanEsplen

I think they're trying to get Kadri on a shorter deal, like Subban, and show him that the money will come on the next deal. Franson...I'm not even sure he wants to sign. He played the most sheltered minutes of our D-men (with Fraser, BTW), and I think he thinks he's better than he is right now.