Blues already have 3 guys who play on the left side who are top 4 on most teams, don't need another. Read might be good value, but we don't have a roster spot for him, and aren't going to move someone else for a player about to be a UFA. Coots is definitely not dime-a-dozen, but he is no where near Petro's value.

Flyers aren't going to give up Coots and Schenn. Fair enough. But if that's true, Flyers also aren't going to trade for a defender who is 23 and shows signs of being on the the top ten, possibly top 5 defenders in the league for the next 15 years.
- Antilles

I agree with you. I was referring to the proposed trade in here.
Also, as an aside, if you have a guy who can play on any of the 4 lines, will score 20 goals, has a $900K cap hit, and plays PP, ES, and PK, you make room for him.

I hate that stuff. who cares about this code that GM's have. Your only code should be to make your team better for your fans etc. If you cant get your own RFA signed then someone should offer sheet them. Thats on you as a GM and an organization. Lets see how many time Nashville will offer sheet Philly guys because of that Weber contract. I assume it wont happen a lot. The canucks are a team of Power in the NHL.
- Bluechip23

A GM putting an offer-sheet out that he knows the other team will match doesn't make his team better.

A GM doing something to eliminate one of his 29 trading options lowers his ability to make his team better.

GM's are being loyal to their fans by being loyal to the unwritten code in regards to RFA's.

A GM putting an offer-sheet out that he knows the other team will match doesn't make his team better.

A GM doing something to eliminate one of his 29 trading options lowers his ability to make his team better.

GM's are being loyal to their fans by being loyal to the unwritten code in regards to RFA's.
- Antilles

If it's so frowned upon, why did the GMs allow it to be in the new CBA?
You don't want an offer sheet? Sign your FA's.

You do realize that Tor want to dump Phanuefs contract ? So you lose a salary dump and a prospect for Bieksa and a prospect.
- VANTEL

The Leafs don't want to dump Dion's contract. Stop spreading this crap. A trade where we give up Franson and Dion and get back Tanev (who I actually like) and Bieksa (who sucks) is awful.

But you must be a Flyers fan to say they can give up Hartnell and gain Dion.

I agree with you. I was referring to the proposed trade in here.
Also, as an aside, if you have a guy who can play on any of the 4 lines, will score 20 goals, has a $900K cap hit, and plays PP, ES, and PK, you make room for him.
- jmatchett383

Read isn't anywhere near a 20 goal guy on St. Louis.

Wait, are people on here really arguing that Bieksa is better than Phaneuf? Or are you just saying, for the asking price/cap hit you'd rather have Bieksa?
- jmatchett383

How many conference winning goals does Phanuef have?

The Leafs don't want to dump Dion's contract. Stop spreading this crap. A trade where we give up Franson and Dion and get back Tanev (who I actually like) and Bieksa (who sucks) is awful.

But you must be a Flyers fan to say they can give up Hartnell and gain Dion.
- djamon

I don't think either team would do the Hartnell for Phaneuf trade.

How many conference winning goals does Phanuef have?
- VANTEL

LOL...yeah...that one was a beauty. You're hilarious.

The Leafs don't want to dump Dion's contract. Stop spreading this crap. A trade where we give up Franson and Dion and get back Tanev (who I actually like) and Bieksa (who sucks) is awful.

But you must be a Flyers fan to say they can give up Hartnell and gain Dion.
- djamon

Bieksa and Phanuef are the same player.

For all the reasons you gave for off nights etc. Leaf fans can say the exact same thing. Lets not play in if this or if that. Everyone had injuries including the leafs. The facts are 13 goals difference in a 48 game schedule.

If we had the exact same D as the leafs but Lu and Cs in net. How much of a difference is the Goals Allowed for the leafs. My guess is Lu and CS are at least worth 13 goals in a 48 game season. So when I look at it like that I think the leafs and nucks d is somewhat close.

There is more to GA allowed than just d. Like Offensive back checking also the systems both teams play. But Im just tired of listening to homer fans tell me how great our team is and how we have the best D and the best goalies and our offensive players are studs when the stats dont back it up and we keep on losing in the 1st round of the playoffs (back to back years).

Leafs had a much better offense than us but were worse defensively. But I attribute that to our goalies not our defense.
- Bluechip23

I acknowledged backchecking as a problem. We played virtually the whole year without our best defensive forward or a 3rd line center. This hurt us defensively. I stated that.

I also acknowledged that our D had a poor year last year, but despite that we still allowed 13 less goals.

Also, Leafs fans can't say the exact same thing about off nights. Did the Leafs have their division wrapped up days before the end of the season and sit most of their top players in the final game, and then end up allowing 7 goals against, therefore inflating their goals against for the season?

I'm tired of Canucks fans looking at individual stats that don't flatter the team and making blanket statements that aren't necessarily even related. I provided an answer to your question. You're the one who has looked at one stat and arbitrarily decided how much of that should be credited to the goaltending and how much to the defence. Do you actually think that the Leafs D is as good, or better, than Vancouver's?

Then St. Louis needs to stop pu$$y-footing around and get him signed. It's almost like they're hoping someone WILL OS him so they can leave the job of determining his contract to another GM.
- djamon

Blues have come to terms with all of their RFA's every year at a number below what most people expected by being patient. No reason to stop now.

How about plus / minus?
- KB3Point0

+/-

So Mark Fraser's better defensively than Bieksa?
- djamon

He asked if there was any stat or context that could be used to back up the fact that Bieksa is a better defensive player than Dion. There is.

Trading Cody Hodgsen to NYR would be AWESOME! Imagine coach AV getting this headache back in his locker room lol

Read isn't anywhere near a 20 goal guy on St. Louis.
- djamon

Based on St. Louis' defensive play?
Okay. Last year, Read put up 11 goals in 42 games. Over an 82 game season, that's 21.5 goals.

Also last year, Philadelphia scored 2.75 G/GP to St. Louis' 2.58 (1 to 0.93 ratio). That gives Read 20 goals.

Simplistic, and let's say he only scores 16. That's still amazing value for his hit (and salary). Take his PK abilities into consideration and it's even better.

I agree with you. I was referring to the proposed trade in here.
Also, as an aside, if you have a guy who can play on any of the 4 lines, will score 20 goals, has a $900K cap hit, and plays PP, ES, and PK, you make room for him.
- jmatchett383

Blues have 11 guys who might put up 20 if given the minutes Read gets. Add our enforcer, and we're full up. Read gives us nothing we don't have already.

I agree with you. I was referring to the proposed trade in here.
Also, as an aside, if you have a guy who can play on any of the 4 lines, will score 20 goals, has a $900K cap hit, and plays PP, ES, and PK, you make room for him.
- jmatchett383

Blues have 11 guys who might put up 20 if given the minutes Read gets. Add our enforcer, and we're full up. Read gives us nothing we don't have already.

How many conference winning goals does Phanuef have?
- VANTEL

As many as Shea Weber. Phaneuf is as good as Shea Weber? Is that what you're trying to point out?

To CHI- Plekanec, Diaz and a 1st
For
To- MTL- Seabrook


No thanks, Seabrook is almost untouchable right now. Seabs value to the Blackhawks far exceeds whatever Plekanec would bring. Chicago has a lot of young guys who will audition for the 2C role. I'd rather go with one of them and keep Seabrook.

Fantastic individual stat. Is not influenced in any way on the play of your defense partner, the quality of your team, the quality of the opposition you face, the amount of time spent on the ice, or the quality of goaltending. Good point.
- jmatchett383

You asked.

Blues have 11 guys who might put up 20 if given the minutes Read gets. Add our enforcer, and we're full up. Read gives us nothing we don't have already.
- Antilles

Never mind, you're right. he's useless. Might as well send him to the ECHL.

+/-


- Marshalle

Kadri is better than Kopitar, Getzlaf, Perry, Kane, Lucic Backstrom, Couture, Thornton and Daniel Sedin.

You asked.
- KB3Point0

So the way that Bieksa is better than Phaneuf, quantifiably, is in the most team-based stat in the sport?

He MUST be...he had our highest +/- and some in here think that's how you judge a defenseman.
- djamon

No. He asked for one stat that could be used to justify the fact that Bieksa is a better defensive player than Phaneuf.

If it's so frowned upon, why did the GMs allow it to be in the new CBA?
You don't want an offer sheet? Sign your FA's.
- jmatchett383

Because the players want it, and there is no reason to extend the lockout or make concessions in other areas to get eliminate something from the CBA that is non-element except for on average one exception per summer, and on forums with fans ignoring how things typically work so they can dream of ways to make their team better.