Phaneuf finished 11th in Norris Trophy Voting. Bieksa didn't make top 25.
- MrBen

11th over 25th..still not even close....either way........

I would say that the premise of your argument is flawed. Allowing 13 less goals last season could absolutely mean that the goaltending and D are better.

Also keep in mind that they allowed 13 less goals in a season where they played most of the year without their number 2 (or 3) center (who is also their best defensive forward, a Selke winner just 2 seasons ago). Their D combinations were atrocious to the point that the entire coaching staff was fired and injuries to only R shooting D-men forced many of their D to play out of position for most of the year. Also, the team had a few off nights (last game of the year when most of the lineup was sat and they allowed 7, first game of the year and due to no preseason the goalies allowed 7) that inflate the numbers much more in a shortened season.

Despite all of that they still allowed 13 less goals. Can you provide an argument as to why their goaltending AND defense are not better than the Leafs?
- KB3Point0

For all the reasons you gave for off nights etc. Leaf fans can say the exact same thing. Lets not play in if this or if that. Everyone had injuries including the leafs. The facts are 13 goals difference in a 48 game schedule.

If we had the exact same D as the leafs but Lu and Cs in net. How much of a difference is the Goals Allowed for the leafs. My guess is Lu and CS are at least worth 13 goals in a 48 game season. So when I look at it like that I think the leafs and nucks d is somewhat close.

There is more to GA allowed than just d. Like Offensive back checking also the systems both teams play. But Im just tired of listening to homer fans tell me how great our team is and how we have the best D and the best goalies and our offensive players are studs when the stats dont back it up and we keep on losing in the 1st round of the playoffs (back to back years).

Leafs had a much better offense than us but were worse defensively. But I attribute that to our goalies not our defense.

Don Cherry like Belexa more, therefore, Belexa is better.

case closed

Wait, are people on here really arguing that Bieksa is better than Phaneuf? Or are you just saying, for the asking price/cap hit you'd rather have Bieksa?
- jmatchett383

both I think.

How about plus / minus?
- KB3Point0

So Mark Fraser's better defensively than Bieksa?

If Bieksa was so good, he wouldnt be a #4 d-man for the nucks...
- Jaciems

What is your point? Are you arguing something I said or just throwing out a pointless statement?

He didn't say they wouldn't be interested in Edler.
- Marshalle

well you have to give something to get something.

How about plus / minus?
- KB3Point0

Fantastic individual stat. Is not influenced in any way on the play of your defense partner, the quality of your team, the quality of the opposition you face, the amount of time spent on the ice, or the quality of goaltending. Good point.

So Mark Fraser's better defensively than Bieksa?
- djamon

well he's your No. 1 isn't he?

So Mark Fraser's better defensively than Bieksa?
- djamon

What place did Fraser come in the Norris voting?

I just dont get why someone doesnt offer sheet Petro. I love him as a d man and think he is that elite shut down guy that you need to win a cup. Would love the nucks to throw 7mil a year at him and see what happens. I know its impossible cause we dont have the cap room or the ability to trade all our guys because of NTC but I can pray.
- Bluechip23

Because the Blues would match any offer. It just serves to create animosity amongst GMs and increase the likelihood of having one of your own players offer sheeted in return.

well he's your No. 1 isn't he?
- IanEsplen

He MUST be...he had our highest +/- and some in here think that's how you judge a defenseman.

Bieksa better defensively? I love irony when used correctly.
- djamon

Yes.

What place did Fraser come in the Norris voting?
- Scooby_Doo

About the same as Bieksa I think....

Because the Blues would match any offer. It just serves to create animosity amongst GMs and increase the likelihood of having one of your own players offer sheeted in return.
- KB3Point0

Also, it's assumed that he would sign the OS. Just because you offer sheet a player doesn't mean he'd sign it. Which is why I laughed when Nashville was saying how they'd offer sheet Giroux when Giroux came out and said he only wanted to play in Philadelphia...and it's all moot since he signed an extension.

But yes, unless a small market team offers him $8M for 7 years, he's not going anywhere.

Because the Blues would match any offer. It just serves to create animosity amongst GMs and increase the likelihood of having one of your own players offer sheeted in return.
- KB3Point0

I hate that stuff. who cares about this code that GM's have. Your only code should be to make your team better for your fans etc. If you cant get your own RFA signed then someone should offer sheet them. Thats on you as a GM and an organization. Lets see how many time Nashville will offer sheet Philly guys because of that Weber contract. I assume it wont happen a lot. The canucks are a team of Power in the NHL.

Because the Blues would match any offer. It just serves to create animosity amongst GMs and increase the likelihood of having one of your own players offer sheeted in return.
- KB3Point0

Like Gillis offer-sheeting Backes and Davidson offer-sheeting Bernier (for who we should have run (not walked) away from) is the best example of this. Now St. Louis will likely never trade with us while Gillis is GM.

Yeah, the Flyers weren't going to give up Coots and Schenn for Weber, so doubt they'd do it for AP. Read is a rental, yes, but he's arguably the best value in the league (20+ goals for $900K). Coburn is what he is, a solid #4 defenseman who plasy well at ES & PK. Not saying it's a good deal, but Read and Coburn aren't exactly throwaways or dime-a-dozen players either.
- jmatchett383

Blues already have 3 guys who play on the left side who are top 4 on most teams, don't need another. Read might be good value, but we don't have a roster spot for him, and aren't going to move someone else for a player about to be a UFA. Coots is definitely not dime-a-dozen, but he is no where near Petro's value.

Flyers aren't going to give up Coots and Schenn. Fair enough. But if that's true, Flyers also aren't going to trade for a defender who is 23 and shows signs of being on the the top ten, possibly top 5 defenders in the league for the next 15 years.

Not a chance on the Blues Flyers trade. Coburn place left, doesn't replace Pietro's minutes on the right. Read is a rental player about to be a UFA, and the type of depth guy Blues are already stacked with, we don't have a roster spot for him. Coots has value, but no where near a 23 year old who looks like a perennial Norris contender.

Blues won't trade Pietro. And if they were hypothetically going to, it would be more like both Schenn's, Coots, & first round pick. Don't expect Blues to trade Petro for anything less than the sort of package Flyers would trade Giroux for.
- Antilles

It was a stupid suggestion to begin with, made worse by the offer "from" the Flyers.

How about plus / minus?
- KB3Point0

It's strange one unless you truly believe Mark Frasor is one of the best Dmen in the league?

well you have to give something to get something.
- IanEsplen

I agree.

Just not something better.

Move out Phaneuf and Franson and bring in Tanev and Bieksa?
I think maybe you missed something.
- MrBen

You do realize that Tor want to dump Phanuefs contract ? So you lose a salary dump and a prospect for Bieksa and a prospect.

It's strange one unless you truly believe Mark Frasor is one of the best Dmen in the league?
- walshyleafsfan

who the fukk is mark frasor

Blues already have 3 guys who play on the left side who are top 4 on most teams, don't need another. Read might be good value, but we don't have a roster spot for him, and aren't going to move someone else for a player about to be a UFA. Coots is definitely not dime-a-dozen, but he is no where near Petro's value.

Flyers aren't going to give up Coots and Schenn. Fair enough. But if that's true, Flyers also aren't going to trade for a defender who is 23 and shows signs of being on the the top ten, possibly top 5 defenders in the league for the next 15 years.
- Antilles

Then St. Louis needs to stop pu$$y-footing around and get him signed. It's almost like they're hoping someone WILL OS him so they can leave the job of determining his contract to another GM.

who the fukk is mark frasor
- vancity787

poop me up, the spelling Nazis are around.