I called $5M for Stepan back before the playoffs started. Nearly a point per game is his negotiating leverage, lack of playoff success is his weakpoint. But if you figure that Callahan gets 4.25 as a bridge deal (and that was 4 years ago), Stepan based on production alone should be worth $5M, even if that kind of cripples us capwise. Stepan is equally as good defensively as Callahan, Cally just hits more. But Steps offensive IQ and vision is a much higher value that Cally. Cally was producing at around 45-50pts. per season when he got 4.25M. Stepan (based on projections) is 70-80pts. right now.
- xcheckmajor

You can't think like that. Stepan plays with Nash...kinda unfair to judge soley based on point production there when compairing to Callahan; who scores about as many goals when NOT playing with Nash.

I had Stepan projected at 4.25m before the hold out started. Im gonna say when he signs it will be in the 4.5m range.

I think Sather is trying to push a deal that Pavelski got from SJ in the range of 4m per year.

(frank)ing jagr

Jeez, you guys will bring us into another lockout if you think $5 mil is market value for stepan. Moulson had two 30 goal seasons and was given $3.3 mil for 3 years. I think stephan is comprable more to that than duchene&gagner $$. They were first rounders & projected top 3 forwards. Derek is neither or has yet to really prove that he is in that category of players. So, factor in Sather's penchant for overpaying and if DS holds out for anything above 3.8-4.0mil/yr he is being unrealistic.
- jmo16

excuse me, but go phuck yourself

excuse me, but go phuck yourself
- jimbro83

Apparently, Derek Stepan isn't in the same league as Sam Gagner, because Gagner was a former 1st round pick and projected Top 3 forward. Well, Gagner has played 414 NHL games, and has tallied a total of 258 points, which would average out to about a 51 point player. Derek Stepan has played 212 NHL games, has tallied 140 points, which would average out to about 54 points over an 82 game season, even putting aside the fact that Stepan was almost a point per game player last year, something Sam Gagner has never achieved.

There comes a point where draft status doesn't mean anything anymore, otherwise the Rangers would be paying Brassard and Pouilot, much more than they are paying Stepan. Who cares where a player is drafted, when you have years of actual NHL production to evaluate the player. If the Rangers can get Derek Stepan locked up to a contract similar to McDonagh, maybe a few hundred thousand less annually, the contract will be a bargain by year 3, if not sooner.

I seriously doubt there is any reason to fear losing Step to an offer sheet. We have that extra 10% of summer space to play with so unless the offer sheet is of the totally ridiculous variety the Rangers will match. That may put them in a bind and force them to move a piece or two they ordinarily would have liked to keep before the season but I'm confident Slats has that contingency planned for.

My hope is they are working on two options: One being a long term deal and the other a bridge deal with a general understanding of what a long term deal might look like down the road. Even a 1-year deal with an "understanding" that when eligible the Rangers will sign him to a multiyear contract worth what his market value is. Since the large extension wouldn't begin to count against the cap until next season when we believe it will be appreciably higher, it gives the team multiple options to fit the contract under the cap.

You can't think like that. Stepan plays with Nash...kinda unfair to judge soley based on point production there when compairing to Callahan; who scores about as many goals when NOT playing with Nash.
- mames11

If you take a look at what can be admissible to arbitration, those are the facts that should be considered. The fact that he plays with Nash has no bearing on his actual market value. Arbitration has specific rules in which a player is valued for a reason. Even though Step isn't qualified for Arb, the principles of what his market value still hold true. Its actually the reverse, when talking contracts, you can't think the way you said above.

Apparently, Derek Stepan isn't in the same league as Sam Gagner, because Gagner was a former 1st round pick and projected Top 3 forward. Well, Gagner has played 414 NHL games, and has tallied a total of 258 points, which would average out to about a 51 point player. Derek Stepan has played 212 NHL games, has tallied 140 points, which would average out to about 54 points over an 82 game season, even putting aside the fact that Stepan was almost a point per game player last year, something Sam Gagner has never achieved.

There comes a point where draft status doesn't mean anything anymore, otherwise the Rangers would be paying Brassard and Pouilot, much more than they are paying Stepan. Who cares where a player is drafted, when you have years of actual NHL production to evaluate the player. If the Rangers can get Derek Stepan locked up to a contract similar to McDonagh, maybe a few hundred thousand less annually, the contract will be a bargain by year 3, if not sooner.
- Pete V

Ain't that the truth. If salary was based on draft position, Boyle (1st rounder) would be making 7x that of a certain guy that plays goalie named Henrik something (7th round)

.

Ain't that the truth. If salary was based on draft position, Boyle (1st rounder) would be making 7x that of a certain guy that plays goalie named Henrik something (7th round)

.
- mames11

Or Zetterberg, or Datsyuk, or a bunch of players not drafted in the top 3 rounds.

If you take a look at what can be admissible to arbitration, those are the facts that should be considered. The fact that he plays with Nash has no bearing on his actual market value. Arbitration has specific rules in which a player is valued for a reason. Even though Step isn't qualified for Arb, the principles of what his market value still hold true. Its actually the reverse, when talking contracts, you can't think the way you said above.
- xcheckmajor

Apparently, Derek Stepan isn't in the same league as Sam Gagner, because Gagner was a former 1st round pick and projected Top 3 forward. Well, Gagner has played 414 NHL games, and has tallied a total of 258 points, which would average out to about a 51 point player. Derek Stepan has played 212 NHL games, has tallied 140 points, which would average out to about 54 points over an 82 game season, even putting aside the fact that Stepan was almost a point per game player last year, something Sam Gagner has never achieved.

There comes a point where draft status doesn't mean anything anymore, otherwise the Rangers would be paying Brassard and Pouilot, much more than they are paying Stepan. Who cares where a player is drafted, when you have years of actual NHL production to evaluate the player. If the Rangers can get Derek Stepan locked up to a contract similar to McDonagh, maybe a few hundred thousand less annually, the contract will be a bargain by year 3, if not sooner.
- Pete V

Under that scenario shouldn't Hank only be paid the league minimum. Afterall, he was only a 7th round pick. All kidding aside, Step's production is in line with a top line player. Considering his relative youth it can be projected that he will continue to produce more and more for the next few seasons before fully reaching his ceiling. I'm not saying he'll ever be a 100-point player but I think he is going to be a consistent 70 - 80-point player that is efective in all three zones. That will get him paid.

If you take a look at what can be admissible to arbitration, those are the facts that should be considered. The fact that he plays with Nash has no bearing on his actual market value. Arbitration has specific rules in which a player is valued for a reason. Even though Step isn't qualified for Arb, the principles of what his market value still hold true. Its actually the reverse, when talking contracts, you can't think the way you said above.
- xcheckmajor

This backs up my statement. Thanks.

I'm thinking a 3 year deal (which keeps him RFA after) with a low first year to keep the AAV down. 3.5M, 5M, 5.5M with AAV of 4.66M.

Under that scenario shouldn't Hank only be paid the league minimum. Afterall, he was only a 7th round pick. All kidding aside, Step's production is in line with a top line player. Considering his relative youth it can be projected that he will continue to produce more and more for the next few seasons before fully reaching his ceiling. I'm not saying he'll ever be a 100-point player but I think he is going to be a consistent 70 - 80-point player that is efective in all three zones. That will get him paid.
- gkmkiller

That would be great; though, he hasn't done so, yet. Until he does, should he get paid like one? One good season shouldn't evaluate a contract (Boyle)...sadly, it does in the NHL.

This backs up my statement. Thanks.
- mames11

How does this backup your statement? The info NOT admissible under arbitration are qualities specific to the individual team's needs. Who Stepan plays with is not usable in arbitration. Arbitration relies 90% on production. Then it weighs in intangibles in the players game like defensive ability, PK, PP, Leadership. Whether or not he is a "good fit" because of Nash has nothing to do with salary arbitration.

Under that scenario shouldn't Hank only be paid the league minimum. Afterall, he was only a 7th round pick. All kidding aside, Step's production is in line with a top line player. Considering his relative youth it can be projected that he will continue to produce more and more for the next few seasons before fully reaching his ceiling. I'm not saying he'll ever be a 100-point player but I think he is going to be a consistent 70 - 80-point player that is efective in all three zones. That will get him paid.
- gkmkiller

Except arbiters dont care about what he might and can do, its about what he has done. It will get him paid later on, but not now.

That would be great; though, he hasn't done so, yet. Until he does, should he get paid like one? One good season shouldn't evaluate a contract (Boyle)...sadly, it does in the NHL.
- mames11

Point per game ratio absolutely is admissible for arbitration. Since his 48 games played last season wasn't due to illness or injury which may lower his value because he's not consistent, there is no argument that he can not produce 70-80pts. So for all intensive purposes (what the heck does that mean anyway lol?) he has accomplished the PPG rate of 75pts. a season. Another quality that is admissible in arbitration is also historic trend. Considering Stepan has improved his game year after year with no regression in any category, that is also weighed into his worth.

How does this backup your statement? The info NOT admissible under arbitration are qualities specific to the individual team's needs. Who Stepan plays with is not usable in arbitration. Arbitration relies 90% on production. Then it weighs in intangibles in the players game like defensive ability, PK, PP, Leadership. Whether or not he is a "good fit" because of Nash has nothing to do with salary arbitration.
- xcheckmajor

I am not talking about arbitration when it comes to Stepan because he doesn't qualify for it now! Please stop refering to arbitration tangables and Derek Stepan! He is negotiating with the team without arbitration rights, so therefore, it's going to be about the entire picture with his game; not just about point production...the same was Callahan would have to negotiate if he was in the same situation.

I am not talking about arbitration when it comes to Stepan because he doesn't qualify for it now! Please stop refering to arbitration tangables and Derek Stepan! He is negotiating with the team without arbitration rights, so therefore, it's going to be about the entire picture with his game; not just about point production...the same was Callahan would have to negotiate if he was in the same situation.
- mames11

I know what his negotiations are about, but YOU'RE the one who brought up the whole league is collapsing and heading to another lockout if we give Stepan 5M because he's not worth it. Your statement right there is reflective of what his MARKET VALUE is. The only way to properly define his Market Value is by using the same process as Arbitration. You can't give him a Market Value based on the Ranger's individual needs, that has nothing to do with the rest of the market.

EDIT: Sorry, wrong thought process lol. I was referring to the other guy with this comment.

Point per game ratio absolutely is admissible for arbitration. Since his 48 games played last season wasn't due to illness or injury which may lower his value because he's not consistent, there is no argument that he can not produce 70-80pts. So for all intensive purposes (what the heck does that mean anyway lol?) he has accomplished the PPG rate of 75pts. a season. Another quality that is admissible in arbitration is also historic trend. Considering Stepan has improved his game year after year with no regression in any category, that is also weighed into his worth.
- xcheckmajor

You should be his agent.

I just don't think he should make more than Callahan...that's all. Both are important to the team in their own way.

I know what his negotiations are about, but YOU'RE the one who brought up the whole league is collapsing and heading to another lockout if we give Stepan 5M because he's not worth it. Your statement right there is reflective of what his MARKET VALUE is. The only way to properly define his Market Value is by using the same process as Arbitration. You can't give him a Market Value based on the Ranger's individual needs, that has nothing to do with the rest of the market.
- xcheckmajor

No, that certainly was not me. I was just disagreeing with your thinking that Stepan was worth more than Callahan soley based on point production. At least that's how it came across to me.

That would be great; though, he hasn't done so, yet. Until he does, should he get paid like one? One good season shouldn't evaluate a contract (Boyle)...sadly, it does in the NHL.
- mames11

That's sports business nowadays. The thing with Step and why he will get paid is that it isn't as if he has come out of nowhere. He may "only" have been a second round pick but the organization has been high on him since day one. They have believed in him and felt he would develop more or less as he has.

Also, look at Ryan O'Reilly. He had one pretty good season after also being a 2nd round pick but a team offered him an offer sheet worth $5.5MM annually. Step's agent is going to want to use that as a comparable and the Rangers are going to argue that contract is an outlier and an overpayment (and they would be right, by the way). Still, that's how contracts are negotiated and I agree with Jan that Ganer's and Duchene's deals will play some role in how this gets done with Step. He won't get the $6MM that Duchene got but I wouldn't be surprised if he got close to Gagner money. And he actually deserves more than Gagner money.

No, that certainly was not me. I was just disagreeing with your thinking that Stepan was worth more than Callahan soley based on point production. At least that's how it came across to me.
- mames11

I know I'm sorry, wrong guy. But again, I'm simply using Arbitration as an example of what is used when valuing a player's contract. I was saying that Stepan and Cally both bring the same intangibles to the table. Cally has an edge because of his leadership, but both are probably the 2 best defensive two way forwards on the team. Both Play PP, PK. Stepan however is much better offensively than Cally. Thats why I think he deserves a slightly higher contract. PLUS inflation.

I mean, leadership is important, but that doesn't mean you pay the leader higher than you pay the better producer. There have been many players who were brought in as a Captain and only paid a moderate amount, compared to the team's leading point scorer who is usually paid the most.

The more I keep thinking about this the more I'm so incredibly angry that Sather didn't buy out Richards. Not only are we in cap hell, trying to find a way to fit our #1 Center, we can't even call up JT Miller or McIlrath if we wanted to. Why even bother having training camp with any of our kids? There's no way for them to play unless we trade some of our roster players. So annoyed.

Point per game ratio absolutely is admissible for arbitration. Since his 48 games played last season wasn't due to illness or injury which may lower his value because he's not consistent, there is no argument that he can not produce 70-80pts. So for all intensive purposes (what the heck does that mean anyway lol?) he has accomplished the PPG rate of 75pts. a season. Another quality that is admissible in arbitration is also historic trend. Considering Stepan has improved his game year after year with no regression in any category, that is also weighed into his worth.
- xcheckmajor

Not sure whether you wanted an answer, but the phrase is actually "For all intents and purposes", which means for all practical (or usual) purposes. I think 80% of people screw that phrase up.