It really does work. It lowers the value of all our players. Hell, the perceived value of Bernier has already nose-dived. And I saw nothing but rim-jobs for him for the past 3 years from media and fans.
- RogerRoeper

There are good contracts on the Leafs. How can you say fans or media stating the obvious, why can't the blame go to the club, they were who signed the deals. Therefore wouldn't it be the club that should be blamed for lowering value? Right now, Reimers value is probly higher than Bernier, why? Because Bernier is not yet proven and makes more money. For the record, I felt the goaltending was fine and didn't like the trade to begin with as far as the rim job comments.

1- you assume 70M, why not 69M or 68M?
2- you're missing 3 players, so +/- 2,1M
- fidopro

Listening to your GM, the cap could be higher, and I guessed on the upper range for quite a few of the free agents. As for the 3 players, they'd be 13th and 14th forwards and a #7 d man, so I'd expect close to league minimum for all 3, worst case scenario of course.

This speaks to the lack of depth more than his talent. I think people would be surprised by the ability of other guys if given the opportunity. 40 year old Gonchar is better in his end, should he get 7 mill next year?
- aminnes

oh.....

Detroit with Lidstrom.

L.A. with Doughty.

Ottawa with Karlsson.

Minny with Suter.

San Jose with Boyle.

None of these teams were ever prevented from finding decent partners to play on the top unit. A top defenseman at Phaneuf's price tag has never caused any team to suffer.
- Leeman4Gilmour

And all those guys make someone better. Dion making anyone better. No. On fact one could argue Gunner makes Dion play better.

And if he gets paid 7 million they won't be able to bring that calibre of guy in. See what I'm saying, it's not about hating him, they have no choice but to move him. He's one of those guys thats overpaid and will continue to be, and in a cap world they can't win a cup with that, just can't. Clarkson is way overpaid too. Love his style but he is.
- aminnes

Everyone sees it, no ones buying it.

And all those guys make someone better. Dion making anyone better. No. On fact one could argue Gunner makes Dion play better.
- aminnes

Dion single handedly kept Kostka and Holzer in the NHL well past their expiry dates. Were they top unit guys?

How about Aulie, everybody's favorite "one who got away"? Plays #6 minutes on the worst defense in hockey. Looked alright as a #2 with Phaneuf.

Ever think that maybe - just maybe - it was Phaneuf making Aulie look good and not the other way around? Doesn't that make more logical sense?

We don't know yet. Guys like Fraser, Franson, Gardner, are all young and getting better. We won't know how good they can be for at least 2-3 years. Dion is done. He is what he is and took a sharp decline post lockout particularly due to the rule changes in his end, I'de rather keep all those guys and watch them get better and possibly better than him, then pay him and be forced to move one or more or them down the line. Basically it's either have faith in Dion or take a fairly calculated risk that the guys guys they have will become good down the line. I would venture to say that keeping him, knowing what he is means there won't be enough dpeth to pull off a championship while he's here.
- aminnes

oh.....
- burn

He ain't worse

- burn

Oh, come on, we all know Phaneuf was finished before he even played his first game in 2005.

Dion never played pre-lockout in 2004-2005...
- RogerRoeper

Why are we bringing facts into this??

Dion single handedly kept Kostka and Holzer in the NHL well past their expiry dates. Were they top unit guys?

How about Aulie, everybody's favorite "one who got away"? Plays #6 minutes on the worst defense in hockey. Looked alright as a #2 with Phaneuf.

Ever think that maybe - just maybe - it was Phaneuf making Aulie look good and not the other way around? Doesn't that make more logical sense?
- Leeman4Gilmour

I think injuries and lack of legit guys kept those guys in the NHL. I don't think #3 had the Markov magic touch with them as Markov had with Komi...who worked on his speed and will thrive under a new system....

And all those guys make someone better. Dion making anyone better. No. On fact one could argue Gunner makes Dion play better.
- aminnes

As opposed to him being paired with who? Dion did make Gunnars fill- ins look a little better. Give dion a proper partner for the first line, then see what he is. Gunnar just happens to be the closest thing to the defensively responsible partner required.

He ain't worse
- weirdoh

is dion overrated?

yes.

is he as bad as some are saying?

no. he is a top pairing defensemen. easily. top 5 in the league? no. but i'd put him top 15.

is dion overrated?

yes.

is he as bad as some are saying?

no. he is a top pairing defensemen. easily. top 5 in the league? no. but i'd put him top 15.
- Dozzer

He's top 10 points. But lacks in the actual part of his job that is pretty important in the job description. Now I guess I'm gonna get banned like the last time. Oh, wait...you're not Howard.

He ain't worse
- weirdoh

sure he is.

He's top 10 points. But lacks in the actual part of his job that is pretty important in the job description. Now I guess I'm gonna get banned like the last time. Oh, wait...you're not Howard.
- weirdoh

How many top scoring Dmen are rock solid defensively?? Very few.

- burn

Meaning done in development. He won't get any better.

He's top 10 points. But lacks in the actual part of his job that is pretty important in the job description. Now I guess I'm gonna get banned like the last time. Oh, wait...you're not Howard.
- weirdoh

too lazy to ban

in fairness to phaneuf, he did make some gains in that aspect of defense last year

carlyle will ultimately be good for him i think.

i look at it this way.. 3 years ago if dion was matched up against the top forwards in the league he would of looked absolutely terrible.

now he just looked average

if he continues to gain next year.. it will be interesting determining a price tag

He's top 10 points. But lacks in the actual part of his job that is pretty important in the job description. Now I guess I'm gonna get banned like the last time. Oh, wait...you're not Howard.
- weirdoh

Thats exactly it. He is an elite offensive defencmen. He needs a high end defencive player as a partner. Even out the ice time on the back end, and he'll be fine.

is dion overrated?

yes.

is he as bad as some are saying?

no. he is a top pairing defensemen. easily. top 5 in the league? no. but i'd put him top 15.
- Dozzer

He's considered a big smelly turd so I don't know how he's overrated.

I think injuries and lack of legit guys kept those guys in the NHL. I don't think #3 had the Markov magic touch with them as Markov had with Komi...who worked on his speed and will thrive under a new system....
- weirdoh

I would agree that there are certain types of players that a guy like Phaneuf can help, just as there are certain types of players that a guy like Markov can help.

I would never pair Phaneuf with a guy like Komisarek who has clearly lost a step. And I wouldn't go to the other extreme, either (ie. Gardiner).

Aulie actually was a pretty good example of a guy who had the right tools to fit with Phaneuf. I think Scuderi would have been great here, too.

If Volchenkov could stay healthy and eat bigger minutes again, I'd love to see him here in Toronto.

Dion single handedly kept Kostka and Holzer in the NHL well past their expiry dates. Were they top unit guys?

How about Aulie, everybody's favorite "one who got away"? Plays #6 minutes on the worst defense in hockey. Looked alright as a #2 with Phaneuf.

Ever think that maybe - just maybe - it was Phaneuf making Aulie look good and not the other way around? Doesn't that make more logical sense?
- Leeman4Gilmour

Aulie isn't even close to what he may end up, he's 23 years old. Holzer and Kostka looked like crap. Period. Not to say they can't improve but Dion surely didn't help them be better thats for suer, hence the demotions.

Thats exactly it. He is an elite offensive defencmen. He needs a high end defencive player as a partner. Even out the ice time on the back end, and he'll be fine.
- kylkri

agreed

He's considered a big smelly turd so I don't know how he's overrated.
- RogerRoeper

that would depend on who you ask

too lazy to ban

in fairness to phaneuf, he did make some gains in that aspect of defense last year

carlyle will ultimately be good for him i think.

i look at it this way.. 3 years ago if dion was matched up against the top forwards in the league he would of looked absolutely terrible.

now he just looked average

if he continues to gain next year.. it will be interesting determining a price tag
- Dozzer

His betterment in his own end was directly due to the better goaltending. He was till a fat minus even with a top 10 sv behind him though, and points.