You guys think #3 should be paid because he can put up better points than most or do you bring into account his shortcomings on the defensive side of him as well? What would he go to the bargaining table with?

Actually they don't. Boston had one until next year, we'll see how it goes with them. Pitts after next year, will have three and will turn into the new TB from 5 years ago.
San jose hasn't made it out of the second round, so contenders? not really,
Det has 2 guys making over six who have both won 2 cups already and no one over 7
The Rangers who you claim are contenders, have Nash, and the only other guy getting over 6 rides the pine.

LA has two guys over six, one guy a D and Kopitar. This is the only exception. Kessel alone will get 8 plus so they still wouldn't be going down the road the LEafs would be.

Can't overspend and stay good. I'm happy they made the dance but I would like to see a cup in my lifetime.
- aminnes

How about the team that beat Boston?

If Dion were only making $5M cap hit the last 3 years, we'd all be worried he was getting a raise to $7.5M next summer.
- Big_Lightnin

The media created this "Dion is so overpaid" in 2009' and everyone repeats it like sheep. He's not.

It's like when we heard McCabe had the worst contract ever. It was nonsense.

There are a few teams on that list that have players making less than 6 million on "Retirement contracts". Jeff Carter for 9 more years at less than 6? Yeah, no thanks.

That Hossa contract will look brutal soon' He's paid until he's 42 years-old.

You guys think #3 should be paid because he can put up better points than most or do you bring into account his shortcomings on the defensive side of him as well? What would he go to the bargaining table with?
- weirdoh

Consider all issues.

How about the team that beat Boston?
- Leeman4Gilmour

By far, best team at managing cap!

You guys think #3 should be paid because he can put up better points than most or do you bring into account his shortcomings on the defensive side of him as well? What would he go to the bargaining table with?
- weirdoh

He is the only guy on our team that plays significant minutes 5-on-5, on the PP, and penalty kill.

His numbers are nice, but he surely realizes how crappy his defensive partners have been this whole time. Among the most defensive starts in the league, best opponents, and the worst partners.

I'm not sure how easily those factors translate into money, but they don't hurt.

True, but nobody seems to be able to provide an answer to the problem you list in #2; nobody can name a cheaper alternative that improves the team.

I've just been skimming through the thread and have seen Smid and Gleason. What kind of bizarro world are we living in today?

Swap out Phaneuf with Smid or Gleason and 5th best in the East becomes 5th worst.
- Leeman4Gilmour

The Leafs have a lot of offensive guys. Spread out the minutes between more guys like lots of teams do. His defense is mediocre, so all that needs replacing is his offense, which can be done internally.

The Leafs have a lot of offensive guys. Spread out the minutes between more guys like lots of teams do. His defense is mediocre, so all that needs replacing is his offense, which can be done internally.
- aminnes

Do you want to give Gardiner more defensive minutes? See how well that goes.

You guys think #3 should be paid because he can put up better points than most or do you bring into account his shortcomings on the defensive side of him as well? What would he go to the bargaining table with?
- weirdoh

Really, one of the best comparables would be Keith (good offensive guy, some occasional brain farts. Better overall player than #3, but similar style). The good thing is that his cap hit of $5.5m is great, the downside is that he's getting paid $7.65m next year. Unfortunately both sides can use this and thus the circular argument begins....

By far, best team at managing cap!
- fidopro

Thats a good point. Seasbrook and Keith are both way bettr, and they are both likely making less money this time next year.

Consider all issues.
- burn

Just worried is all. Will management think that C on his chest gives him a bit more leeway?

The media created this "Dion is so overpaid" in 2009' and everyone repeats it like sheep. He's not.

It's like when we heard McCabe had the worst contract ever. It was nonsense.
- RogerRoeper

See also: Kubina, Pavel and Gill, Hal.

The media loves to get their hooks into at least one of our defensemen every year. If Phaneuf leaves, my guess is Gardiner will be the next whipping boy.

His carefree style makes him an easy target.

The Leafs have a lot of offensive guys. Spread out the minutes between more guys like lots of teams do. His defense is mediocre, so all that needs replacing is his offense, which can be done internally.
- aminnes

... but still the best on the team. That's the problem with getting rid of them. He's the best shutdown D on the team.

Do you want to give Gardiner more defensive minutes? See how well that goes.
- RogerRoeper

Not really, but even RC thinks Dion plays too many minutes. Gardner actually is pretty good in his own end, he's a little weak in front, as most young guys are, but then Dions a stick waver himself in front, just watch game 7, so would it be so bad? Spread the minutes out between more guys.

This is like when people were saying the team would be better-off without Phil Kessel.

Really, one of the best comparables would be Keith (good offensive guy, some occasional brain farts. Better overall player than #3, but similar style). The good thing is that his cap hit of $5.5m is great, the downside is that he's getting paid $7.65m next year. Unfortunately both sides can use this and thus the circular argument begins....
- lumlums

If #3 got 5.5 , due to being paid heavily in the first few years, that would be great. I think a team like the Leafs wouldn't give a rat's Richard about what he's getting paid in actual monetary values as opposed to worrying about his cap hit.

Thats a good point. Seasbrook and Keith are both way bettr, and they are both likely making less money this time next year.
- aminnes

Keith doesn't count - illegal contract now. He's making $8, and they'll get (frank)ed by that one in a few years. He's probably got 5 retirement years on that one.

Not really, but even RC thinks Dion plays too many minutes. Gardner actually is pretty good in his own end, he's a little weak in front, as most young guys are, but then Dions a stick waver himself in front, just watch game 7, so would it be so bad? Spread the minutes out between more guys.
- aminnes

Now you'tre giving Gardiner's defensive abilities way too much credit.

Thats a good point. Seasbrook and Keith are both way bettr, and they are both likely making less money this time next year.
- aminnes

That's a ridiculous comparison.

First of all, Phaneuf has never played with anyone in Toronto remotely approaching their ability.

Secondly, you can't compare a player who has just signed a contract to a guy on the tail end of his own. Clarkson makes almost as much as Kessel this year. It's irrelevant.

See also: Kubina, Pavel and Gill, Hal.

The media loves to get their hooks into at least one of our defensemen every year. If Phaneuf leaves, my guess is Gardiner will be the next whipping boy.

His carefree style makes him an easy target.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Then maybe he should change this style.


"Leeman4Gilmour is great at this game, great guy, handsome, smart, but doesn't give a (frank) when he's playing. We like that in a player."

... but still the best on the team. That's the problem with getting rid of them. He's the best shutdown D on the team.
- Big_Lightnin

This speaks to the lack of depth more than his talent. I think people would be surprised by the ability of other guys if given the opportunity. 40 year old Gonchar is better in his end, should he get 7 mill next year?

How about we get our RFAs signed and stop worrying about trading anyone and see how the first two months of the season go! I'm happy with the lineup as is assuming it fits under the cap.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Clarkson
Colborne - Bolland - Kulemin
McClaren - McClement - Ashton/Orr

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Franson - Fraser
Gardiner - Liles
Holzer/Blacker/Granberg

Reimer/Bernier

If we can manage to not lose many man games to injury we should challenge for the division.

If #3 got 5.5 , due to being paid heavily in the first few years, that would be great. I think a team like the Leafs wouldn't give a rat's Richard about what he's getting paid in actual monetary values as opposed to worrying about his cap hit.
- weirdoh

8 yrs gets him to 37 yrs old. He probably looking for consistent money.

This speaks to the lack of depth more than his talent. I think people would be surprised by the ability of other guys if given the opportunity. 40 year old Gonchar is better in his end, should he get 7 mill next year?
- aminnes

No he (frank)ing is not