See to me this is what its all about. Everyone has been laughing at Van fans for their cap issues, which makes it difficult to acknowledge the ones the Leafs are sure to have without a big change.
- aminnes

The problem is that the Nucks have too many people on too high a contract. They have $50m tied up in 10 players, plus of course the Luongo contract which will bite them in the ass at some point

The problem is that the Nucks have too many people on too high a contract. They have $50m tied up in 10 players, plus of course the Luongo contract which will bite them in the ass at some point
- lumlums

I know. Not the point I was making. Leafs are running into big problems now going forward.

Gleason, 2nd round pick, Drayson Bowman for Dion Phaneuf

-Clear salary
-Get a very good defensive d-man (one Carlyle will get 110% out of a she usually does) to replace Phaneuf in the top 4.
-Phaneufs offensive responsibilities become Gardiners/Fransons/Liles/Riellys/whoever
-2nd round pick and a decent young player in Bowman (another who could thrive under Carlyle) who will compete for a roster spot is probably an overpayment in addition to Gleason, but an overpayment that Carolina is probably willing to make.....

-Carolina upgrades Gleason into Phaneuf.
-2nd round pick could be conditional on Phaneuf re-upping long-term if necessary.
-Moving Bowman opens up a contract slot for Carolina, as well as lightens up a very crowded competition for a spot in their 12(13) forwards

Thoughts? I feel like Leafs fans would consider this offer sort of underwhelming, but I personally wouldn't offer much more for Phaneuf.
- mochoson

How is that an overpayment for Phaneuf? What a terrible trade.

How is that an overpayment for Phaneuf? What a terrible trade.
- RogerRoeper

He was just being politically correct because this thread has many believers in Phaneuf.

ANA didn't make the dance last year 2011-12. Pit is now in problem mode, NY - contenders, they overspent and are getting worse. SJ hasn't gotten out the second round. Bos has one guy - Chara, and he's way better than Dion. Rask albeit is overpaid by a bit for sure. Bottom line, teams that win don't overpay, and Phaneuf at 7 plus million is overpaying. Are any of the players Detroit has paid 7 mil been overpaid?
- aminnes

What a pile of conjecture you pulled out of your ass there. Wow.

I know. Not the point I was making. Leafs are running into big problems now going forward.
- aminnes

It depends... they're approaching a crossroad, and a few bad decisions can put them on the wrong path.

I guess the main difference between now and the muskoka five days is that now we have young, overpaid guys who are still improving rather than old, overpaid guys who are on the downslope of their careers...

He was just being politically correct because this thread has many believers in Phaneuf.
- aminnes

Dude, if you don't like Dion, that's fine. But don't try to throw around pseudo-facts as weight in your argument against resigning both players. You're just making yourself look foolish.

What a pile of conjecture you pulled out of your ass there. Wow.
- gravyface

Care to elaborate, or is it just ad hominem?

Dude, if you don't like Dion, that's fine. But don't try to throw around pseudo-facts as weight in your argument against resigning both players. You're just making yourself look foolish.
- gravyface

Don't have cap space. Simple.

He was just being politically correct because this thread has many believers in Phaneuf.
- aminnes

Why not? We see him play. Tim Gleason stinks.

Don't have cap space. Simple.
- aminnes

the cap is going way up. And Tucker/Armstrong's cap hits are coming off.

the cap is going way up. And Tucker/Armstrong's cap hits are coming off.
- RogerRoeper

No one knows what it will be. Plus if you look into the next 3 years, it's a massive albratross at anything higher than 5 per. Gotta trade big names in a cap world sometimes.

Care to elaborate, or is it just ad hominem?
- aminnes

If it works for politicians....

No one knows what it will be. Plus if you look into the next 3 years, it's a massive albratross at anything higher than 5 per. Gotta trade big names in a cap world sometimes.
- aminnes

He's worth more than 5 though. He will get that on the open market easily.

Don't have cap space. Simple.
- aminnes

Except they do.

We just made the playoffs, let's trade our top D-Man! Addition by subtraction, right guys?

The problem, as has been reiterated a million times around here, is that you just aren't going to find a guy on par with Phaneuf who can play in all situations for a cheaper price tag (without losing assets).
- Leeman4Gilmour

The problem is some people simplify don't like the way he plays. He's a polarizing figure.

I don't get it, they rely on their role players and if they replaced them they would suck, and this is a problem? They made the final 2 out of 3 years in a 30 team league. To keep Dion, the Leafs will - as you said - have to replace key role players. Am I missing something here? The only hope would be moving Liles - which with the cap going down is probly very unlikely. Notice, they traded a fairly important player, much like other perrenial contenders? To be good, and stay good a team has to have to sack to move key guys sometimes - happens in the NFL all the time with the cap. Thats why I'm saying, they pretty much have to move Dion now, before it strangles em.
- aminnes

Their role players are a lot better than ours, was my point.

Their role players won them a lot of playoff series, and they are going to have to downgrade their role players.

Obviously still have a good core, but they'll feel it when they swap out their 3rd and 4th lines with less experienced or effective players.

No one knows what it will be. Plus if you look into the next 3 years, it's a massive albratross at anything higher than 5 per. Gotta trade big names in a cap world sometimes.
- aminnes

(frank) wow

Don't have cap space. Simple.
- aminnes

No, there's plenty of cap, as about a half dozen other posters have already pointed out. That's when you just started going off on a tangent about completely unrelated and unfounded "proof" like "contenders don't have more than one player above 6M" when both teams from the Stanley Cup final this year have more than one player above 6M... then you go on to say that Rask is overpaid, etc., like that somehow validates your point.

Like I said, if you don't like Dion, that's fine, but you're not winning any converts making BS points about cap space and contenders.

The problem is some people simplify don't like the way he plays. He's a polarizing figure.
- robin_steele264

Worst case Ontario.

No one knows what it will be. Plus if you look into the next 3 years, it's a massive albratross at anything higher than 5 per. Gotta trade big names in a cap world sometimes.
- aminnes

So if you don't know what the CAP is going to look like down the line, how the hell can you sit here and tell us we are in CAP trouble?

No, there's plenty of cap, as about a half dozen other posters have already pointed out. That's when you just started going off on a tangent about completely unrelated and unfounded "proof" like "contenders don't have more than one player above 6M" when both teams from the Stanley Cup final this year have more than one player above 6M... then you go on to say that Rask is overpaid, etc., like that somehow validates your point.

Like I said, if you don't like Dion, that's fine, but you're not winning any converts making BS points about cap space and contenders.
- gravyface

This is insane.

We just made the playoffs, let's trade our top D-Man! Addition by subtraction, right guys?
- RogerRoeper

We basically have a two-sided problem here.

1) Dion, despite his detractors, is our best defenseman. We lean on him in all situations as the rest of our D is too inexperienced and too young to be relied on in all situations. If we trade him, we are almost certainly not a playoff team.

2) Despite being our best defenseman, Dion IS overpaid. Despite impressive offensive numbers, Dion is relatively weak defensively relative to his contract. If we give him a raise, then we risk being in a major financial hole.

The problem is some people simplify don't like the way he plays. He's a polarizing figure.
- robin_steele264

The problem also is if he gets a big contract they dont have money to get better. Making the playoffs is supposed to lead to a cup eventually, and moving out guys to keep him, when he isn't good enough to get them to the dance as it is makes no sense. Move him while you can maybe get something back. Platoon the minutes and use the money to create depth, rather than one guy who his own coach says is better at less than 25 mins a game.