we would want things they are not willing to give up.
But K-Lowe is a big Dion fan. If he has any influence, it could happen.
- Big_Lightnin

Pretty sure he is gonna end up with Edmonton, just not sure for what....

Sundin made 8 mill for several years of his career in a non cap world. Market value today would be very different. Even if Dion and Kessel give less 500 K woop-tee-doo, still a huge problem.
- aminnes

who gives a (frank) pre-cap. precap doesn't matter what he signs for.

and they really don't have huge problems. already demonstrated that.

Bingo! Other elite players shoudn't make more 5 or 6M.

63M roster - 23 players

5-5-5
4-4-4
2-2-2
1-1-1-1-1

5-5
3-3
1-1-1

5
1
- fidopro

The teams that win cups and stay contenders often don't pay more than maybe one guy more than 6 million. Pitts is going to have big depth problems going forward with what they gave Letang. Leafs are situated nicely so long as they move Dion before he demands 7 or more a year IMO.

When did I ever say that? There's not one player on the Kings overpaid. Boston has great salary structure. Chicago might have a couple guys making too much but not that big of a deal is it - won the cup. It's okay to like the Leafs and be realistic about their mistakes. And for the record, the fact that Crosby got that money coming off a major head injury was too much, maybe not in money but surely in term.
- aminnes

who gives a (frank) pre-cap. precap doesn't matter what he signs for.

and they really don't have huge problems. already demonstrated that.
- Big_Lightnin

Um... Your the one that said signing Gardner will be a problem. Again, it's okay to be realistic and be a fan of the team. They will have cap issues - at least ion terms of improving on their breakout year - going forward. Can they stay the same? Sure, but winning the cup was the point right? I'm still not satisfied with simply making the playoffs.

Pretty sure he is gonna end up with Edmonton, just not sure for what....
- tru_blu.buzz

How about Phaneuf for Edmonton's 1st round pick in 2014?

- Big_Lightnin

? All their core guys are locked up. 6 mill in Iggy goes away. The only bad one is Rask, but he is proven to be pretty dangwell good. Maybe a mill and a year too many but not too bad.

How about Phaneuf for Edmonton's 1st round pick in 2014?
- tru_blu.buzz

Done. Throw in a prospect and I'm game.

Done. Throw in a prospect and I'm game.
- aminnes

Agreed, just don't know who the prospects in Edmonton are...I have a feeling it's Phaneuf that is gonna get dealt to make room for the RFA contracts, given that they have to give Kessel a raise next year....

Um... Your the one that said signing Gardner will be a problem. Again, it's okay to be realistic and be a fan of the team. They will have cap issues - at least ion terms of improving on their breakout year - going forward. Can they stay the same? Sure, but winning the cup was the point right? I'm still not satisfied with simply making the playoffs.
- aminnes

I said both Gardiner and Reimer could be an issue. But moving Liles likely solves that issue (and they probably trade Reimer too and go with Bernier, or vice versa).

They will have cap concerns, but they are not screwed as you have said several times.

I said both Gardiner and Reimer could be an issue. But moving Liles likely solves that issue (and they probably trade Reimer too and go with Bernier, or vice versa).

They will have cap concerns, but they are not screwed as you have said several times.
- Big_Lightnin

Assuming someone would take Liles. If thats the case - heck yes.

Agreed, just don't know who the prospects in Edmonton are...I have a feeling it's Phaneuf that is gonna get dealt to make room for the RFA contracts, given that they have to give Kessel a raise next year....
- tru_blu.buzz

They pretty much have to.

? All their core guys are locked up. 6 mill in Iggy goes away. The only bad one is Rask, but he is proven to be pretty dangwell good. Maybe a mill and a year too many but not too bad.
- aminnes

Boston's problem is they rely a TON on their role players. replace their 4th line with any other 4th line in the league, and they don't go to the cup final. Hell they don't beat the Leafs.

They were forced to trade Seguin for cap purposes. Granted, they had the luxury of being able to and made a pretty good trade.

They're ok, but the team they have is the best they will be going forward. They only have room for depth moves. And Chara's not getting any younger.

I said both Gardiner and Reimer could be an issue. But moving Liles likely solves that issue (and they probably trade Reimer too and go with Bernier, or vice versa).

They will have cap concerns, but they are not screwed as you have said several times.
- Big_Lightnin

Yup. We're not Vancouver

Assuming someone would take Liles. If thats the case - heck yes.
- aminnes

I posted this earlier too - Liles buyout next summer:

2014-15: $791,667
◦2015-16: $2,291,667
◦2016-17: $1,166,667
◦2017-18: $1,166,667

worth while savings for the 2 years he's on the books, very manageable hit for the last 2 if it comes to that.

though, if they retain $1.5M for the 2 yrs instead, he is likely tradable and then it's off books.

especially if he redeems himself this year.

Gleason, 2nd round pick, Drayson Bowman for Dion Phaneuf

-Clear salary
-Get a very good defensive d-man (one Carlyle will get 110% out of a she usually does) to replace Phaneuf in the top 4.
-Phaneufs offensive responsibilities become Gardiners/Fransons/Liles/Riellys/whoever
-2nd round pick and a decent young player in Bowman (another who could thrive under Carlyle) who will compete for a roster spot is probably an overpayment in addition to Gleason, but an overpayment that Carolina is probably willing to make.....

-Carolina upgrades Gleason into Phaneuf.
-2nd round pick could be conditional on Phaneuf re-upping long-term if necessary.
-Moving Bowman opens up a contract slot for Carolina, as well as lightens up a very crowded competition for a spot in their 12(13) forwards

Thoughts? I feel like Leafs fans would consider this offer sort of underwhelming, but I personally wouldn't offer much more for Phaneuf.

Boston's problem is they rely a TON on their role players. replace their 4th line with any other 4th line in the league, and they don't go to the cup final. Hell they don't beat the Leafs.

They were forced to trade Seguin for cap purposes. Granted, they had the luxury of being able to and made a pretty good trade.

They're ok, but the team they have is the best they will be going forward. They only have room for depth moves. And Chara's not getting any younger.
- Big_Lightnin

I don't get it, they rely on their role players and if they replaced them they would suck, and this is a problem? They made the final 2 out of 3 years in a 30 team league. To keep Dion, the Leafs will - as you said - have to replace key role players. Am I missing something here? The only hope would be moving Liles - which with the cap going down is probly very unlikely. Notice, they traded a fairly important player, much like other perrenial contenders? To be good, and stay good a team has to have to sack to move key guys sometimes - happens in the NFL all the time with the cap. Thats why I'm saying, they pretty much have to move Dion now, before it strangles em.

Gleason, 2nd round pick, Drayson Bowman for Dion Phaneuf

-Clear salary
-Get a very good defensive d-man (one Carlyle will get 110% out of a she usually does) to replace Phaneuf in the top 4.
-Phaneufs offensive responsibilities become Gardiners/Fransons/Liles/Riellys/whoever
-2nd round pick and a decent young player in Bowman (another who could thrive under Carlyle) who will compete for a roster spot is probably an overpayment in addition to Gleason, but an overpayment that Carolina is probably willing to make.....

-Carolina upgrades Gleason into Phaneuf.
-2nd round pick could be conditional on Phaneuf re-upping long-term if necessary.
-Moving Bowman opens up a contract slot for Carolina, as well as lightens up a very crowded competition for a spot in their 12(13) forwards

Thoughts? I feel like Leafs fans would consider this offer sort of underwhelming, but I personally wouldn't offer much more for Phaneuf.
- mochoson

Sold

I posted this earlier too - Liles buyout next summer:

2014-15: $791,667
◦2015-16: $2,291,667
◦2016-17: $1,166,667
◦2017-18: $1,166,667

worth while savings for the 2 years he's on the books, very manageable hit for the last 2 if it comes to that.

though, if they retain $1.5M for the 2 yrs instead, he is likely tradable and then it's off books.

especially if he redeems himself this year.
- Big_Lightnin

Not a big fan of halding the 1.5, we've seen this cause them problems with other retained money in the past. Waive him.

Yup. We're not Vancouver
- lumlums

See to me this is what its all about. Everyone has been laughing at Van fans for their cap issues, which makes it difficult to acknowledge the ones the Leafs are sure to have without a big change.

Gleason, 2nd round pick, Drayson Bowman for Dion Phaneuf

-Clear salary
-Get a very good defensive d-man (one Carlyle will get 110% out of a she usually does) to replace Phaneuf in the top 4.
-Phaneufs offensive responsibilities become Gardiners/Fransons/Liles/Riellys/whoever
-2nd round pick and a decent young player in Bowman (another who could thrive under Carlyle) who will compete for a roster spot is probably an overpayment in addition to Gleason, but an overpayment that Carolina is probably willing to make.....

-Carolina upgrades Gleason into Phaneuf.
-2nd round pick could be conditional on Phaneuf re-upping long-term if necessary.
-Moving Bowman opens up a contract slot for Carolina, as well as lightens up a very crowded competition for a spot in their 12(13) forwards

Thoughts? I feel like Leafs fans would consider this offer sort of underwhelming, but I personally wouldn't offer much more for Phaneuf.
- mochoson

I'de do it, but I'm not sure Carolina would. If the rumours are true, there isn't exactly a lineup to land Dion.

Gleason, 2nd round pick, Drayson Bowman for Dion Phaneuf

-Clear salary
-Get a very good defensive d-man (one Carlyle will get 110% out of a she usually does) to replace Phaneuf in the top 4.
-Phaneufs offensive responsibilities become Gardiners/Fransons/Liles/Riellys/whoever
-2nd round pick and a decent young player in Bowman (another who could thrive under Carlyle) who will compete for a roster spot is probably an overpayment in addition to Gleason, but an overpayment that Carolina is probably willing to make.....

-Carolina upgrades Gleason into Phaneuf.
-2nd round pick could be conditional on Phaneuf re-upping long-term if necessary.
-Moving Bowman opens up a contract slot for Carolina, as well as lightens up a very crowded competition for a spot in their 12(13) forwards

Thoughts? I feel like Leafs fans would consider this offer sort of underwhelming, but I personally wouldn't offer much more for Phaneuf.
- mochoson

Nope.

I like Gleason, but thats it. Bowman Gives us nothing that we don't have.

The teams that win cups and stay contenders often don't pay more than maybe one guy more than 6 million. Pitts is going to have big depth problems going forward with what they gave Letang. Leafs are situated nicely so long as they move Dion before he demands 7 or more a year IMO.
- aminnes

What are you talking about?

Like every team except for the perennial bottom-feeders and budget-conscious teams have multiple players over 6M:

DET, ANA, BOS, PIT, SJ, NYR, LA, etc.

What are you talking about?

Like every team except for the perennial bottom-feeders and budget-conscious teams have multiple players over 6M:

DET, ANA, BOS, PIT, SJ, NYR, LA, etc.
- gravyface

ANA didn't make the dance last year 2011-12. Pit is now in problem mode, NY - contenders, they overspent and are getting worse. SJ hasn't gotten out the second round. Bos has one guy - Chara, and he's way better than Dion. Rask albeit is overpaid by a bit for sure. Bottom line, teams that win don't overpay, and Phaneuf at 7 plus million is overpaying. Are any of the players Detroit has paid 7 mil been overpaid?

I'de do it, but I'm not sure Carolina would. If the rumours are true, there isn't exactly a lineup to land Dion.
- aminnes