Agreed up to a point. Crawford is fine. But to your point, how much can they pay him, or should they?

It is possible Raanta will stink like herring left out too long when he hits North America. But I'm betting, and I think more importantly, the Hawks are, he won't. The circumstances, trajectory and narrative is almost precisely the same as Niemi's. But this guy arguably has better credentials. And Niemi, I'm sorry, is a very good NHL goaltender, technical anomalies, rebounds and all. That guy is a talent and a winner.

By the way, he reads this blog, too!
- John Jaeckel

This entire discussion about Crawford and goaltending reminds me of Bob Gibson and pitching. Tim McCarver walked out to the mound in a tight game and Gibson asked him why he came out there. McCarver said he just wanted to buy some time. Gibson told him to get the f$ck back behind the plate because the only thing he knew about major league pitching was that he couldn't hit any of it.

Far as I'm concerned, none of us know much about goaltending at the NHL level. Technical weaknesses aside, Crawford played well enough to backstop the Hawks to a Cup win. Worth it or not to the fans, his next contract will have some very healthy numbers on it.

Timing is everything. Would Tuuka Rask have gotten the contract he got if the Bruins had not come back in the last 10 minutes of Game 7 vs the Maple Leafs? Would the Leafs have decided to trade for Jonathan Bernier if they had won that series? Does Crawford get traded in the offseason if the Hawks don't come back against Jimmy Howard and the Wings? What would have happened if Marty Brodeur had signed with the Hawks in last year's offseason when he was UFA?

My point is that fans know very little about the fine points of NHL goaltending and the idiosyncracies of individual goaltenders. Crawford got the job done this year and the players and coaches backed him to the hilt publicly, all season. Were they being honest in their feelings about Crow? Who knows. Could he miss Emery as a mentor and stink next season - maybe. We"ll see soon enough.

Indeed.
The line up could be crazy.
Just saw this on NHL

Tavares - Crosby - Nash
Stamkos - Toews - St Louis
E.Staal - Bergeron - Giroux
Richards/Couture - Getzlaf- Perry
Extra: Hall, Sharp, Duchene

Letang - Weber
Keith - Subban
Doughty - Pietrangelo
Extra: Seabrook, Boyle

Luongo
Price
CC
- AusBlackhawks

I could cut this team down to 25 players in a minute. Forget Duchene, Letang, Boyle, Richards and probably Seabrook from the above list. E.Staal has to recover from the knee injury he got at the World Championships courtesy of Alex Edler.

I could cut this team down to 25 players in a minute. Forget Duchene, Letang, Boyle, Richards and probably Seabrook from the above list. E.Staal has to recover from the knee injury he got at the World Championships courtesy of Alex Edler.
- RickJ

Why forget Duchene and Letang, won't they thrive on the bigger ice?
Duchene could probably miss out but I think Letang is on the team.
The rest of what you said I agree with, but anything can happen between now and the Olympics.

Why forget Duchene and Letang, won't they thrive on the bigger ice?
Duchene could probably miss out but I think Letang is on the team.
The rest of what you said I agree with, but anything can happen between now and the Olympics.
- AusBlackhawks

Duchene - who of the following does he beat out for a job - Crosby, Toews, Bergeron, Giroux, Couture, Getzlaf, J. Staal, Tavares or Taylor Hall.

I can't see Babcock keeping all 3 of Letang, Subban and Pietrangelo. He will want team minded veterans with experience and strong defensive attributes. At least one of Dan Hamhuis, Jay Bouwmeester, Karl Alzner or Marc Staal will make the team, probably 2 of them.

I could see:

Keith and Weber
Hamhuis or Bouwmeester with Doughty
Alzner or Marc Staal with Pietrangelo
One of Subban or Letang.

Letang is injury prone and not that strong defensively. Just my opinion, long time to go.

As per capgeek.com:

- Beach $550K ($110K)
- Kostka $550K ($325K)
- Leblanc $550K ($100K) and $600K: $575K cap hit

Good deals by Stan, clearly these guys are taking less to improve their chance at making the big club.

For Leblanc to get a one way deal in year 2 makes me think Stan believes he can make the team during this contract.

Duchene - who of the following does he beat out for a job - Crosby, Toews, Bergeron, Giroux, Couture, Getzlaf, J. Staal, Tavares or Taylor Hall.

I can't see Babcock keeping all 3 of Letang, Subban and Pietrangelo. He will want team minded veterans with experience and strong defensive attributes. At least one of Dan Hamhuis, Jay Bouwmeester, Karl Alzner or Marc Staal will make the team, probably 2 of them.

I could see:

Keith and Weber
Hamhuis or Bouwmeester with Doughty
Alzner or Marc Staal with Pietrangelo
One of Subban or Letang.

Letang is injury prone and not that strong defensively. Just my opinion, long time to go.
- RickJ

As I said, anything can happen before the Olympics, so some players may have a great year, others may not.

As per capgeek.com:

- Beach $550K ($110K)
- Kostka $550K ($325K)
- Leblanc $550K ($100K) and $600K: $575K cap hit

Good deals by Stan, clearly these guys are taking less to improve their chance at making the big club.

For Leblanc to get a one way deal in year 2 makes me think Stan believes he can make the team during this contract.
- DarthKane

I can see why Kostka took a deal with the Hawks. He'll be making $325,000 to play in Rockford this season. That's good money to be paid to play in the AHL.

This entire discussion about Crawford and goaltending reminds me of Bob Gibson and pitching. Tim McCarver walked out to the mound in a tight game and Gibson asked him why he came out there. McCarver said he just wanted to buy some time. Gibson told him to get the f$ck back behind the plate because the only thing he knew about major league pitching was that he couldn't hit any of it.

Far as I'm concerned, none of us know much about goaltending at the NHL level. Technical weaknesses aside, Crawford played well enough to backstop the Hawks to a Cup win. Worth it or not to the fans, his next contract will have some very healthy numbers on it.

Timing is everything. Would Tuuka Rask have gotten the contract he got if the Bruins had not come back in the last 10 minutes of Game 7 vs the Maple Leafs? Would the Leafs have decided to trade for Jonathan Bernier if they had won that series? Does Crawford get traded in the offseason if the Hawks don't come back against Jimmy Howard and the Wings? What would have happened if Marty Brodeur had signed with the Hawks in last year's offseason when he was UFA?

My point is that fans know very little about the fine points of NHL goaltending and the idiosyncracies of individual goaltenders. Crawford got the job done this year and the players and coaches backed him to the hilt publicly, all season. Were they being honest in their feelings about Crow? Who knows. Could he miss Emery as a mentor and stink next season - maybe. We"ll see soon enough.
- RickJ

Great post and hopefully it helps put an end to this silly discussion about how good Crawford is
He got the job done
End of story

Great post and hopefully it helps put an end to this silly discussion about how good Crawford is
He got the job done
End of story
- PEIHawkFan

Actually, the end of the story will be whether or not they can re-sign him at a cap hit that allows them to re-sign #s 4 - 19 - 88 - +++.

IMO, a cap hit of $4MM or less.

I think it's maybe, umm, naive to assume this is all face value. Why would Raanta sign with the Hawks—when there were other teams in the running who likely could (abnd did) promise him a real shot at starting?

It's just not really plausible they just walked in and cut in line in front of 5-6 other teams and signed him—and there is no back story.

- John Jaeckel

I think that Raanta had a positive relationship with the Hawk scout, new the team just set a record win streak, had a good club, and they offered him a chance to attempt to be an NHL goalie in a bit.
I think goalies understand it's better to play with a strong backline and scoring, so Raanta knows that if thing go well, he gets to play starting as a back-up.
I cannot remember a Euro goalie stepping in quickly and stealing the starting goalie job after a minor AHL stint.
When you sign anybody, you ARE trying to get a major leaguer out of the deal...
I don't think Bowman signed Raanta as a Crawford replacement by the end on this enxt season...could it be a a baragining chip to have Crawford take less money?
Could the Hawks say "Well, Corey test the market and get back to us..."
Sure IF Crawford found a big buck deal to play for the Islanders (they are not spenders either) could Raanta be ready to pull emergency duty and ATTEMPT to be a NHL starter?
Possible...but he better be super ready.
Maybe...it just sets Crawford up for a possibpe trade later.

I just find the UFA signing of Raanta not directly related to anything but improving depth at the goal position.

Of course if Raanta is the real, that changes the situation, but I don't htink the went to Finland and thought we gotta get this guy because CC sucks, or we don't want to pay him a lot, or we are letting CC walk as a UFA....

Guess it wasn't this baby


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7KfJOVfTUQ
- philco28

Well played, my friend!

Both good. I just think the Canadian feed shows more interesting shots. One girl kept screaming and shaking after the Bolland goal. I think part of Bickell's group. It was funny
- tomcat24

I have always like Doc's inerpretation of the action, when I do have the sound on, but whenever I get just ONE instance where NBC jumps quickly to their commercial and there is post whistle action I jump to the Canandian CBC HNiC feed...usually NBC is running 30 seconds or more behind the real telecast from there so I have to rewind the DVR on the sat...but they HAVE the footage I felt advertisers took form me on NBC.

Yeah, Bickell's parents, and girlfriend when it was scored were as excited and happy as we were!

And what's YOUR favorite memory of the Shawn LaLonde era?

And what's YOUR favorite memory of the Shawn LaLonde era?
- StLBravesFan

When he signed to play in Germany.

And what's YOUR favorite memory of the Shawn LaLonde era?
- StLBravesFan

The day he was drafted being compared to #2 by the talking heads...

Hypothetically speaking, lets assume that you are in the ballpark. That would mean that you have $11million more than current to play with. Lets assume you get Toews and Kane for $8.5 each. Thats $4.5 million gone. Lets next assume you can get Hjarm for $5 mil. Now $6 of the $11 mil is gone. Assuming you are keeping the same team together this long (longshot), and you have identified the "expanded core", You have $5million left for increases to whomever you choose to keep of Leddy, Oduya, Kruger and Saad.

Of course this also assumes that whomever is plugging into the other 4-5 open slots each year are drawing around $1mil or less in salary.
- TheTrob

Possibly, but there are no comparables for Toews and Kane. Both have a Conn Smythe, 2 cup championships, a selke vs a calder, both entering their primes...it's going to cost a helluva lot more then 8.5. Especially when clowns like Gagner and Little are getting almost5 million a year.

Somebody BIG (sharp hossa, seabrook) or a few of the very important depth guys (Shaw, Kruger, Leddy etc) will have to be let go. God knows it wont' be Saad.

There should start to be whispers this winter about where the cap may rise to. However, everyone assuming they're going to have a 85 million dollar cap in 2 years is just crazy. The point of the lockout was to roll back that number and start a gradually rise back....Not sky rocket in 2 years...and then what? Have a cap of 100 million in 5 years? Will NEVER happen.

There are teams who can't compete, let alone hit the floor with a cap that high.

This entire discussion about Crawford and goaltending reminds me of Bob Gibson and pitching. Tim McCarver walked out to the mound in a tight game and Gibson asked him why he came out there. McCarver said he just wanted to buy some time. Gibson told him to get the f$ck back behind the plate because the only thing he knew about major league pitching was that he couldn't hit any of it.

Far as I'm concerned, none of us know much about goaltending at the NHL level. Technical weaknesses aside, Crawford played well enough to backstop the Hawks to a Cup win. Worth it or not to the fans, his next contract will have some very healthy numbers on it.

Timing is everything. Would Tuuka Rask have gotten the contract he got if the Bruins had not come back in the last 10 minutes of Game 7 vs the Maple Leafs? Would the Leafs have decided to trade for Jonathan Bernier if they had won that series? Does Crawford get traded in the offseason if the Hawks don't come back against Jimmy Howard and the Wings? What would have happened if Marty Brodeur had signed with the Hawks in last year's offseason when he was UFA?

My point is that fans know very little about the fine points of NHL goaltending and the idiosyncracies of individual goaltenders. Crawford got the job done this year and the players and coaches backed him to the hilt publicly, all season. Were they being honest in their feelings about Crow? Who knows. Could he miss Emery as a mentor and stink next season - maybe. We"ll see soon enough.
- RickJ

Correct and you play a very dangerous game just assuming every time a cup winning goalie wants to get paid, you can roll another guy in there and not skip a beat.

If Raanta bombs, then what? Corey Crawford's leverage goes sky high...that IS something to watch this year. How this mortal performs up in Rockford. I'm not one to gush all over prospects because very rarely do they ever sniff the hype they are given on draft day.....

I do think that this upcoming season will be Crawford's last in Chicago. He will definitely be getting a raise from his current contract, and with Hjalmarsson up at the same time makes it tough to hand out two really big contracts when the Hawks fully know the next summer 19 and 88 are due for substantial raises as well. The one thing that does scare me is that Raanta is going to play this year in the AHL, so Crawford walks after next year and the kid from Finland comes in as a rookie. Do the Hawks look for a stop gap backup at the time that can play around 40 games if Raanta is a bust? He will be potentially trying to back stop a team that has a great chance at winning the Stanley Cup. That is a helluva lot of pressure to put on a first year netminder. Yes, I know Niemi did it, but that Hawks team might have been the deepest team in the NHL over the course of the last 10 years. I do feel the Hawks know that they cannot pay 50, 4, 19, and 88; but the Hawks need to have a solid plan in place if Raanta flops and is not the goaltender that that the Hawks think that he is.

Correct and you play a very dangerous game just assuming every time a cup winning goalie wants to get paid, you can roll another guy in there and not skip a beat.

If Raanta bombs, then what? Corey Crawford's leverage goes sky high...that IS something to watch this year. How this mortal performs up in Rockford. I'm not one to gush all over prospects because very rarely do they ever sniff the hype they are given on draft day.....
- SteveRain

Steve, the exact premise of my post, as you were posting I was typing. Great minds think a like. Beautiful!!

Possibly, but there are no comparables for Toews and Kane. Both have a Conn Smythe, 2 cup championships, a selke vs a calder, both entering their primes...it's going to cost a helluva lot more then 8.5. Especially when clowns like Gagner and Little are getting almost5 million a year.

Somebody BIG (sharp hossa, seabrook) or a few of the very important depth guys (Shaw, Kruger, Leddy etc) will have to be let go. God knows it wont' be Saad.

There should start to be whispers this winter about where the cap may rise to. However, everyone assuming they're going to have a 85 million dollar cap in 2 years is just crazy. The point of the lockout was to roll back that number and start a gradually rise back....Not sky rocket in 2 years...and then what? Have a cap of 100 million in 5 years? Will NEVER happen.

There are teams who can't compete, let alone hit the floor with a cap that high.
- SteveRain

The key to a higher cap is the Canadian TV rights up for re-negotiation this year: it seems to me that's the only major revenue increase likely.

But don't forget - a 50% cap increase in 5 years - to $100mm - - less than 10% per year - is possible - cap will be 50% of HRR, so it's strictly math.

Toews and Kane: my guess is their numbers will be about $8.5MM and with Chicago - what other contending team will be able to go there and still have room to put together a contending team in the next two or three years? For any other team it's a new full-salary additional cap hit; for Chicago it's only an incremental hit of $2MM each.

Well..... Looks like you can stop putting Shawn Lalonde in your trade proposals. He just signed to play in Germany. Good for him. Wasn't happening for him here....

The key to a higher cap is the Canadian TV rights up for re-negotiation this year: it seems to me that's the only major revenue increase likely.

But don't forget - a 50% cap increase in 5 years - to $100mm - - less than 10% per year - is possible - cap will be 50% of HRR, so it's strictly math.

Toews and Kane: my guess is their numbers will be about $8.5MM and with Chicago - what other contending team will be able to go there and still have room to put together a contending team in the next two or three years? For any other team it's a new full-salary additional cap hit; for Chicago it's only an incremental hit of $2MM each.
- StLBravesFan

Winnipeg will throw the kitchen sink at Toews IF he ever got to UFA.

Lets not be naïve to think that Chicago is the holy grail here for these two. Devils advocate says, they won their championships, so that lure doesn't hold water anymore....Toews would be a living god in Winnipeg and Canada if he went back home.

You don't think ever star athlete's dream is to win a championship for the hometown team? Throw in Ladd, and Buff there....and its something to monitor.

Who's to say Kane won't want to get closer to Buffalo so that his family can see him play 4-5 times a year?

If either were to leave...I'd bet on Kane. He has been and always will be in the shadow of Toews. I'd put Toews resigning at 90%, Kane at 75% all dependent upon what Brisson asks for and what Bowman has budgeted.

Remember...these guys already got a nice chunk of change on their last deals....They will get more then 8.5. To extend them early and at max length, will cost Bowman AT LEAST 9 million a year cap hit wise, assuming he gets creative with signing bonuses, etc.

What they do with Hammer and Crawford will tell the tale on where they think they need to be for 19&88

Possibly, but there are no comparables for Toews and Kane. Both have a Conn Smythe, 2 cup championships, a selke vs a calder, both entering their primes...it's going to cost a helluva lot more then 8.5. Especially when clowns like Gagner and Little are getting almost5 million a year.

Somebody BIG (sharp hossa, seabrook) or a few of the very important depth guys (Shaw, Kruger, Leddy etc) will have to be let go. God knows it wont' be Saad.

There should start to be whispers this winter about where the cap may rise to. However, everyone assuming they're going to have a 85 million dollar cap in 2 years is just crazy. The point of the lockout was to roll back that number and start a gradually rise back....Not sky rocket in 2 years...and then what? Have a cap of 100 million in 5 years? Will NEVER happen.

There are teams who can't compete, let alone hit the floor with a cap that high.
- SteveRain

To me, the real point of the lockout wasn't a temporary cap rollback, it was to get the revenue split from 57/43 down to 50/50. That is real money in the owners' pockets. The cap will be whatever the revenue dictates, what the owners really got was a bigger slice of the pie.

I'm not sure if this was brought up at the time, but while Leddy's 2 year deal has an AAV of $2.7 million the actual annual salary each year is interesting.

In year one Leddy makes $2.0 million, in year 2 he makes $3.4 million. At the end of year 2 the qualifying offer will have to be at least $3.4 million. This should give us an indication on what to expect from Leddy's next contract (at least what the minimum would likely be). I'm assuming the Hawks would have to qualify Leddy, he is an RFA but I'm not 100% certain on the details.

Well..... Looks like you can stop putting Shawn Lalonde in your trade proposals. He just signed to play in Germany. Good for him. Wasn't happening for him here....
- yahoodi

I know Ogie is going to be heartbroken about that. I guess he'll have to start throwing in Beach into his trade proposals.