Or his publicist.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Or the guy who indicated how insane it would be to keep Grabovski over Bozak.

Ok here the $66 million question: Which rotten spolied athlete is dating the most gorgeous woman in the world Kate Upton?

Or the guy who indicated how insane it would be to keep Grabovski over Bozak.
- honesthockey

That's be me

I get the feeling that you would have an aneurysm thinking of one
- lumlums

...Again

Jordan Staal. At one time named Selke runner up.
- honesthockey

Exactly, during the years when he was a + player. Last year he's -18 and not in the conversation at all, doubt that was just a coincidence. Let's see how many Selke winners in the last 20 years had years when they were -18 or even minus players at all. Obviously not to say Schultz is absolutely horrible defensively, but it's hard to totally ignore +/-.

Exactly, during the years when he was a + player. Last year he's -18 and not in the conversation at all, doubt that was just a coincidence. Let's see how many Selke winners in the last 20 years had years when they were -18 or even minus players at all. Obviously not to say Schultz is absolutely horrible defensively, but it's hard to totally ignore +/-.
- 13sundin13

You just proved that +/- is a team stat more than an individual stat, therefore an inaccurate gauge of a single players performance.

It's subjective as hell and would really only indicate something over several years. A load of different things can impact +/-.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

True, as I said, it's an indicator. It's just hard to argue that's he's good defensively if he has the worst +/- on the team. I think you can argue that he's not as bad as the -17 indicates, but it's hard to argue that his strength is defensive play.

You just proved that +/- is a team stat more than an individual stat, therefore an inaccurate gauge of a single players performance.
- systemtool

Jerry (frank)ing Tlusty was a plus 15 on the same team.

True, as I said, it's an indicator. It's just hard to argue that's he's good defensively if he has the worst +/- on the team. I think you can argue that he's not as bad as the -17 indicates, but it's hard to argue that his strength is defensive play.
- 13sundin13

You're ignoring factors like time on ice and matching up against a teams best or worst. +/- is the least telling stat in all of hockey.

+/-

worthless when it goes against your point

best stat ever when it supports it.

Jerry (frank)ing Tlusty was a plus 15 on the same team.
- honesthockey

That settled it then. Tlusty is better offensively and defensively than J.Staal.

True, as I said, it's an indicator. It's just hard to argue that's he's good defensively if he has the worst +/- on the team. I think you can argue that he's not as bad as the -17 indicates, but it's hard to argue that his strength is defensive play.
- 13sundin13

Now we're talking. He absolutely needs work on his defensive play, but the signs are promising. and yes, his offence was miles better. The real issue with him is getting him attuned to a full NHL schedule from a NCAA one. That just takes a little time.

He's 10 times better defensively then Gardiner. Yet Gardiner gets a free pass in Toronto.
- honesthockey

There's one thing Leaf players don't get in Toronto is a free pass. No one would have Kessel as the one-dimensional poster boy in any other market. James Reimer finishes with the 7th highest save% in the NHl and he's viewed as a horrific goalie.

You just proved that +/- is a team stat more than an individual stat, therefore an inaccurate gauge of a single players performance.
- systemtool

Yes, well obviously if you're on a worse team that gets scored on more, your +/- will be worse. But if you're -17, worst on the team, I'd say that would indicate that you may need to work on your defensive game.

Yes, well obviously if you're on a worse team that gets scored on more, your +/- will be worse. But if you're -17, worst on the team, I'd say that would indicate that you may need to work on your defensive game.
- 13sundin13

I would say that one of the best defensive players is fine and nothing more than a victim of his teams play and linemates. Its kind of weird how you state the obviousness of it then argue against it...

That settled it then. Tlusty is better offensively and defensively than J.Staal.
- systemtool

Yes Dion makes timely mistakes at the most cruscial moments. I hate his face or the fact that he never smiles, I hate the fact that a fricken Frankenstien like him is boinking a babe like Elisha, however, as of this time, the Leafs are better with him than without him. It grinds my nuts to have to say that, but it's true. That's how shallow the Leafs D is.
- GCHonda

All of that still doesn't make it a good idea to keep the guy around and give him a gawdawful contract that becomes an untradeable liability.

Now we're talking. He absolutely needs work on his defensive play, but the signs are promising. and yes, his offence was miles better. The real issue with him is getting him attuned to a full NHL schedule from a NCAA one. That just takes a little time.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

The change in games played always gets those NCAA kids, never used to an 82 game sched...which is why most like the CHL better for development.

...Again
- Fruitcakenipple

If he can post that poop again, I can post that poop again

I would say that one of the best defensive players is fine and nothing more than a victim of his teams play and linemates. Its kind of weird how you state the obviousness of it then argue against it...
- systemtool

Bundy, are they really going to move Phaneuf?

seems like a dumb move, he plays 25 minutes a game, who would be their top 4 after doing so?

If you want the best example of +/- being a team stat, please see Chara in his last season as an Islander to his first on the Sens. He literally went from the NHL's worst +/- to the best.

Bundy, are they really going to move Phaneuf?

seems like a dumb move, he plays 25 minutes a game, who would be their top 4 after doing so?
- puckhead17

I hope not. Like him or not he is going to be near jmpossible to replacing...

You're ignoring factors like time on ice and matching up against a teams best or worst. +/- is the least telling stat in all of hockey.
- systemtool

It's not perfect but the best defensive players in the league are generally + players and I don't think that's just a coincidence...

I like Phaneuf, Gardiner, Gunner, and Franson going into the season as a top 4. I think it's pretty solid.

The best defense though, will be the fact the Leafs have 2 of the better younger goalies in the entire NHL.

I hope not. Kike him or not he is going to be near jmpossible to replacing...
- systemtool

I agree if J Bo gets almost $7 million, do they think he's supposed to accept $4 million per to stay?

Seems like Nonis is hell bent on molding this team in his image even if it means weakening certain areas