The offer would be,

"Hey we've got Hemsky. What would you be willing to give us?"

"Well we could.."

"Great! I'll fax the papers over."

"But you haven't even..."

*click*
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Well I don't know. All I know is that he's gotta be moved. It's just frustrating knowing that nobody wants him lol.

I'm not a Kessel hater. He is pretty funny and if you see him at functions such as the all star game he is liked by other players as well. He's just a one dimensional guy. He is what he is. A guy that will put points up. He's a pretty affable guy. He's not a guy you build a franchise around though. Phaneuf on the other hand is hated by other NHL players and its a douche.

But at this point in their careers I'll stick with Hall, Yak, Nuge and Ebs.
- Iggysbff

Plus in his interviews I keep forgetting its HNIC not the special Olympics.

It obviously wasn't a rebuttal, it was a question. The fact that you wanna be right all the time and point out I have nothing on top of not answering the question, answers the question.

All of those dmen from your second list having lower percentages should make sense, considering they are nowhere near the defenders of the counter parts you listed.

However, if a third pairing defender like Keaton Ellerby has a higher on ice SV% than Doughty (your first list), it's probably only because he's not on the ice anywhere near as much.

I shouldn't have to spell this out for you, your looking all of them up yourself. The entire game of hockey and how good each player is can't be explained through statistics. Learn to understand this and well coversate further.

Your entire point was SV% is all goalies. So, what....Quick magically plays better for Keaton (frank)ing Ellerby than he does for Doughty and Scuderi, and better for Doughty than Scuderi to go even further?
- mochoson

You said it makes sense that Jonathan Blum has a higher on-ice SV% than Weber because of his ice time so I asked why somebody like Ian Cole who gets no ice time has a lower on-ice SV%.

The point being it's random. Gilbert can't control that his on-ice SV% was .877

Fuk reducing it to just numbers. How does one explain intangibles?
If you've played the game or watched it a high level for any length of time, you know there's so much more that goes into it.

How do we quantify heart, mean streak, grit, toughness to play against, coachability, character etc etc?

Forgetting these parts of the game when comparing players does a huge disservice to the player and the sport
- hugefemale dog77

I watch all oiler games and about 40 games of other teams every year. The intangibles are BS. If a guy is clutch, it shows.

The only thing that isn't really included in the stats are if a guy has heart and I even find that to be useless. Heart has no use without skill. That's Jones for me

What you would RATHER have is a coach that knows how to get your young to play and be professionals.

Oh yeah, you got that now

I think we know, within 2 years, just how good your kids are going to end up being.

Edmonton makes the playoffs this year.
- Aetherial

i think they have a good shot this year, but until they have a legitimate top pairing I don't see them as a perennial playoff contender

They are different groups.

Edmonton players avg .08 ppg more

Toronto forwards avg. 4.5 years older, 1.5 inches taller and about 10 lbs heavier.

Yes, most people would choose Edmonton's group. I think that is because half of them are 1st overall picks. The upside is huge. I admitted that.

If I am entering the playoffs right now, I want Toronto's group because of size and experience, even if the scoring prowess is not as great.

If I am building towards a championship team... I take my chances with Edmonton's group instead.
- Aetherial

first time I agree with you on something

dear god. Potter's a good 6/7. Gibby played 23 mins a night for EDM last year and didn't fair badly at all. To say potter>gibby aye aye aye
- TheNugeIsHuge

Gilbert is far worse than you apparently realize. Gilbert played those minutes on a dead last place team. You implying people are stupid if they think Potter > than Tom turnover Gilbert just shows how out of touch with reality you are.

Gilbert is a #6-7 D-man on a good team. Same as Potter.

I like Potter's cap hit more.

I like Potter's physical game better.

Their defensive positioning... I actually still prefer Potter over Tom although it's close.

Both are right handed shots with decent PP capability. Although Potter's shot is better and Tom's passing is slightly better.

Tom is a better skater.

Tom has a better outlet pass... when he doesn't pass it right to an opponent. Which is a lot because Tom can't skate it out of the zone cause he is too afraid of being hit by someone and stripped of the puck. Exageration of course, but all too often true. Gilbert is terrible under pressure in our own zone.

PS: One of the few people who supports Tom Gilbert is Clouts... and we all know what great hockey IQ he has

The offer would be,

"Hey we've got Hemsky. What would you be willing to give us?"

"Well we could.."

"Great! I'll fax the papers over."

"But you haven't even..."

*click*
- TheTaoOfSemenko

idk. I think it was Stauffer that said they'll keep him if they don't find the right deal. I'd be happy with like Steve Bernier+a pick

Gilbert is far worse than you apparently realize. Gilbert plays those minutes on a dead last place team. You implying people are stupid if they think Potter > than Tom turnover Gilbert just shows how out of touch with reality you are.

Gilbert is a #6-7 D-man on a good team. Same as Potter.

I like Potter's cap hit more.

I like Potter's physical game better.

Their defensive positioning... I actually still prefer Potter over Tom although it's close.

Both are right handed shots with decent PP capability. Although Potter's shot is better and Tom's passing is slightly better.

Tom is a better skater.

Tom has a better outlet pass... when he doesn't pass it right to an opponent. Which is a lot because Tom can't skate it out of the zone cause he is too afraid of being hit by someone and stripped of the puck. Exageration of course, but all too often true. Gilbert is terrible under pressure in our own zone.
- Aerchon

Potter was the 6th D man on a 2nd last place team. Him and Whitney were a major cause of the problem (although Whitney did drag him down).

Gilbert faired pretty well even though he shouldn't have been playing 23 mins a night

idk. I think it was Stauffer that said they'll keep him if they don't find the right deal. I'd be happy with like Steve Bernier+a pick
- TheNugeIsHuge

Agreed. I proposed that one the other day as well. Adds size and maybe a bit of scoring.

Gelinas is intriguing.

idk. I think it was Stauffer that said they'll keep him if they don't find the right deal. I'd be happy with like Steve Bernier+a pick
- TheNugeIsHuge

That's what I was thinking too. Bernier and a 3rd or something. I don't know if they'll do it though, that's the thing. I guess we could throw a prospect or a dman like N. Schultz in the mix as well.

That's what I was thinking too. Bernier and a 3rd or something. I don't know if they'll do it though, that's the thing. I guess we could throw a prospect or a dman like N. Schultz in the mix as well.
- mbxiphos1527

Hemsky n N Schultz for Bernier+2nd? I think EDM'd need to retain some salary n I think NJ wants a younger blue line

Potter was the 6th D man on a 2nd last place team. Him and Whitney were a major cause of the problem (although Whitney did drag him down).

Gilbert faired pretty well even though he shouldn't have been playing 23 mins a night
- TheNugeIsHuge

Finally something we can agree on.

Whitney was a train wreck last season. Drug down every pairing he was with, badly. I feel really bad for Fistric. I think he was the best of the bunch but was always saddled with Whitney.

The person most responsible for us not making the playoffs last year was without a doubt Whitney.

Hemsky n N Schultz for Bernier+2nd? I think EDM'd need to retain some salary n I think NJ wants a younger blue line
- TheNugeIsHuge

I think you are really under estimating Hemsky. He is worth more than Horcoff. I see him getting us a prospect and a second round. A decent prospect or they will just play him till the trade deadline.
Edit

If new jersey wants him it is costing them Boucher or Kinkaid and their second. He is not going there. Buffalo, NYI, PHO... maybe but NJ won't part with their second rounder.

I watch all oiler games and about 40 games of other teams every year. The intangibles are BS. If a guy is clutch, it shows.

The only thing that isn't really included in the stats are if a guy has heart and I even find that to be useless. Heart has no use without skill. That's Jones for me
- TheNugeIsHuge

You know that guy who counters every conversation with " well,technically..." ? We all know at least one guy like that....anyway, nobody likes that guy , even if he's smarter , he's still less popular than the guy that drills farts in crowded elevators.

I watch all oiler games and about 40 games of other teams every year. The intangibles are BS. If a guy is clutch, it shows.

The only thing that isn't really included in the stats are if a guy has heart and I even find that to be useless. Heart has no use without skill. That's Jones for me
- TheNugeIsHuge

Intangibles don't matter if a guy sucks, in terms of on ice product.

But I really don't see Penner as being that much better than a healthy Jones. Not so much better that it's worth his bad attitude. That's the only place where I think there's disagreement.

And, more importantly, stuff like coachability and character have more impact on the locker room than the ice anyway. We might not be able to gauge the full impact just by watching.

Intangibles don't matter if a guy sucks, in terms of on ice product.

But I really don't see Penner as being that much better than a healthy Jones. Not so much better that it's worth his bad attitude. That's the only place where I think there's disagreement.

And, more importantly, stuff like coachability and character have more impact on the locker room than the ice anyway. We might not be able to gauge the full impact just by watching.
- Morris

I understand the value in advanced stats, I just think its boring as hell to read about. I would rather watch or play the game than look up stats like that. All I know is that intangible qualities like leadership, inspiration , intimidation are immeasurable, but anyone who has actually played the game know how important they are.[/img]

I understand the value in advanced stats, I just think its boring as hell to read about. I would rather watch or play the game than look up stats like that. All I know is that intangible qualities like leadership, inspiration , intimidation are immeasurable, but anyone who has actually played the game know how important they are.
- Jeropotato[/img]

I think advanced stats shed light on a lot of things that have been ignored for a long time. It's especially crazy to think people have been evaluating talent with +/- when they could be using a fairly simple but much more telling alternative in CorsiRelQoC.

Apparently, the stats guys loved Perron and that was a big reason MacT went and made the deal happen, so I won't discount their growing importance in sports. I'm not a traditionalist by any means.

I think in a league where Chris Kunitz is a top 10 scorer you sometimes need some solid stats to cut through the bullpoop. On the other hand, you can't rely on conventional wisdom to tell you that Parenteau can only produce with Tavares for example. So advanced stats can help both ways there.

As far as the Penner discussion goes, I just look at the current makeup of the team, and see that we've got a long road ahead and don't see that a personality risk in Penner is worth the player that he is in the short term. Again, that's just for our team: Philly for example is chock full of older, less impressionable guys, they're used to high turnover of the leadership/key players and they've had their fare share of strong personalities. Whatever negative qualities Penner has might be more easily it for a team like that.

So it's not that I would discount the usefulness of what those stats tell you about players, it's just moreso that I don't weight them as heavily as TheNugeIsHuge might.

I know my degree in Swimming Pool Management hasn't done much for me.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

I find that surprising

I find that surprising
- hugefemale dog77

Had he known he was going to end up on the registry, he might have chosen differently.

Had he known he was going to end up on the registry, he might have chosen differently.
- Morris

I knew there must be a reason that hard earned achievement hasnt been bringin in the big bucks!!

I think advanced stats shed light on a lot of things that have been ignored for a long time. It's especially crazy to think people have been evaluating talent with +/- when they could be using a fairly simple but much more telling alternative in CorsiRelQoC.

Apparently, the stats guys loved Perron and that was a big reason MacT went and made the deal happen, so I won't discount their growing importance in sports. I'm not a traditionalist by any means.

I think in a league where Chris Kunitz is a top 10 scorer you sometimes need some solid stats to cut through the bullpoop. On the other hand, you can't rely on conventional wisdom to tell you that Parenteau can only produce with Tavares for example. So advanced stats can help both ways there.

As far as the Penner discussion goes, I just look at the current makeup of the team, and see that we've got a long road ahead and don't see that a personality risk in Penner is worth the player that he is in the short term. Again, that's just for our team: Philly for example is chock full of older, less impressionable guys, they're used to high turnover of the leadership/key players and they've had their fare share of strong personalities. Whatever negative qualities Penner has might be more easily it for a team like that.

So it's not that I would discount the usefulness of what those stats tell you about players, it's just moreso that I don't weight them as heavily as TheNugeIsHuge might.
- Morris

what about Talbot, could really help us wit depth, at the centre position, grit, leadership, pk..... and so on...

Had he known he was going to end up on the registry, he might have chosen differently.
- Morris

People have such puritan attitudes....age is just a number.

(frank) prolly wrong place for dis, but does anyone know why the back up camera on my ram 1500 just quit working? WTF

People have such puritan attitudes....age is just a number.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Forward thinking and an unwillingness to bend to conventional wisdom is why i have so much respect for you