You work for the Flyers? We're rushing to dump him? Says who? Cause all Paul Holmgrem has said regarding our blue-line so far is he expects Coburn, Grossman, and Mez to all recover from injury.

The media and only the media have assumed a dman would go to make cap room, no one else. Mez does have a 4m cap hit and we are loaded with dmen, doesn't mean we're trading him. He was our best dmen alongside Timonen prior to the absolutely insane bout of injuries he's endured the past two years.

But go on, tell me more about how he's not a top 4 dman with stats you looked up.
- mochoson

yes, eating media garb meszaros has to go for PHI to stay under the cap. Who else goes?

if Meszaros was top 4, PHI'd be in dire need of him. Not rushing to dump him
- TheNugeIsHuge

Questioning if Philly's trying to trade either Coburn or Meszaros is smart isn't the same as saying he isn't a top 4 guy because they are seemingly trying to trade him.
All of Holmgrens moves are open for debate, Meszaros being better than Gilbert shouldn't be.

played 3rd toughest comp in EDM last year. 2nd toughest in MIN for 20 games last year.

you clearly know what you're talking about
- TheNugeIsHuge

He was so good at it to. So good, he's still a free agent.

He was so good at it to. So good, he's still a free agent.
- mochoson

yea he was quite good last season. This year when paired with Clayton stoner and with an abysmal on ice SV% of .877, which of course you know he can't control, he struggled. Also MIN had no cap space, hence Setoguchi trade

yes, eating media garb meszaros has to go for PHI to stay under the cap. Who else goes?
- TheNugeIsHuge

Only one, MAYBE 2 of Gervais/Bourdon/Gustafson make the team. Then Pronger goes on LTIR.

Nobody else is going anywhere as of right now.

Quote were I've said any such thing if your so sure.
- mochoson

You've at least said you watch all games of NJ, PHI, EDM, and another

Questioning if Philly's trying to trade either Coburn or Meszaros is smart isn't the same as saying he isn't a top 4 guy because they are seemingly trying to trade him.
All of Holmgrens moves are open for debate, Meszaros being better than Gilbert shouldn't be.
- Marshalle

I'll take Gilbert over meszaros thanks to contract, injury history, and uh skill level. Gilbert could be in flames colours next year, my opinion won't change

yea he was quite good last season. This year when paired with Clayton stoner and with an abysmal on ice SV% of .877, which of course you know he can't control, he struggled. Also MIN had no cap space, hence Setoguchi trade
- TheNugeIsHuge

Everytime I watch Tom Gilbert he "struggles".

The stats you mention to get your point across are nuts. So Gilbert, a defender, has nothing to do with on ice SV%? No, he doesn't physically stop the puck, but if a goalie has to see a breakaway or a 2 on 1 and gets scored on, that has much to do the defender as it does the goalie.

You've at least said you watch all games of NJ, PHI, EDM, and another
- TheNugeIsHuge

I didn't ask for a list, I asked you to prove it.

I can't (frank)ing stand the Devils for one, so your already wrong.

I'll take Gilbert over meszaros thanks to contract, injury history, and uh skill level. Gilbert could be in flames colours next year, my opinion won't change
- TheNugeIsHuge

Gilbert needs a contract first for you to compare.

Meszaros is a very skilled defenseman and also hits like a truck. You'd be hard pressed to find 10 posters on this site that would pick Gilbert over a healthy Meszaros

Everytime I watch Tom Gilbert he "struggles".

The stats you mention to get your point across are nuts. So Gilbert, a defender, has nothing to do with on ice SV%? No, he doesn't physically stop the puck, but if a goalie has to see a breakaway or a 2 on 1 and gets scored on, that has much to do the defender as it does the goalie.
- mochoson

Let me put it this way.
Dougie Hamilton's on-ice SV% was higher than Chara's.
Kaberle's on-ice SV% was higher than Subban's.
Nick Leddy's on-ice SV% was higher than Hjalmarsson, keith, and Seabrook's
Keaton Ellerby's on-ice SV% was higher than Doughty and Matt Greene's
Jonathan Blum's on-ice SV% was higher than Weber's
Matt Gilroy's on-ice SV% was higher than McDonagh's
Schlemko's on-ice SV% was higher than OEL's
Kris Russell's on-ice SV% was higher than Pietrangelo and JBo's
Ballard's on-ice SV% was higher than Edler, Hamuis, Bieksa, and Garrison's

I didn't ask for a list, I asked you to prove it.

I can't (frank)ing stand the Devils for one, so your already wrong.
- mochoson

sorry that was DAL not NJ

Let me put it this way.
Dougie Hamilton's on-ice SV% was higher than Chara's.
Kaberle's on-ice SV% was higher than Subban's.
Nick Leddy's on-ice SV% was higher than Hjalmarsson, keith, and Seabrook's
Keaton Ellerby's on-ice SV% was higher than Doughty and Matt Greene's
Jonathan Blum's on-ice SV% was higher than Weber's
Matt Gilroy's on-ice SV% was higher than McDonagh's
Schlemko's on-ice SV% was higher than OEL's
Kris Russell's on-ice SV% was higher than Pietrangelo and JBo's
Ballard's on-ice SV% was higher than Edler, Hamuis, Bieksa, and Garrison's
- TheNugeIsHuge

see a pattern?

You'll find few outside of Leafs Nation that would take 26 year old Kessel over 20 year old Hall.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Based on what? Your guess?
And you really should know that Hall is 21...

Gilbert needs a contract first for you to compare.

Meszaros is a very skilled defenseman and also hits like a truck. You'd be hard pressed to find 10 posters on this site that would pick Gilbert over a healthy Meszaros
- mochoson

I guarantee Gilbert gets under 2.75

Let me put it this way.
Dougie Hamilton's on-ice SV% was higher than Chara's.
Kaberle's on-ice SV% was higher than Subban's.
Nick Leddy's on-ice SV% was higher than Hjalmarsson, keith, and Seabrook's
Keaton Ellerby's on-ice SV% was higher than Doughty and Matt Greene's
Jonathan Blum's on-ice SV% was higher than Weber's
Matt Gilroy's on-ice SV% was higher than McDonagh's
Schlemko's on-ice SV% was higher than OEL's
Kris Russell's on-ice SV% was higher than Pietrangelo and JBo's
Ballard's on-ice SV% was higher than Edler, Hamuis, Bieksa, and Garrison's
- TheNugeIsHuge

Yeah, that makes sense considering that's an entire list of bottom pairing dmen that don't spend much time on the ice.

Example: Jonathan Blum gets 10 shifts. His goalie only sees 1 shot per shift. On the tenth shift, the shot goes in. His SV% is .900

Its going to be really funny when Kessel walks next summer as a UFA because you guys can't find anyone better than Tyler Bozak to center his line. Then we'll see how much love leaf fans have for him.
- Ihatebrianburke

Is it? Glad you can see into the future and know exactly what Kessel is gonna do, especially when him and Bozak are best buds, and Bozak just got locked up long term...

I'll take Gilbert over meszaros thanks to contract, injury history, and uh skill level. Gilbert could be in flames colours next year, my opinion won't change
- TheNugeIsHuge

In the last 4 seasons Meszaros has played more games and has a much much better +/- than Gilbert. And he is younger. And he has waaaaay more playoff experience but yah Gilbert is the way to go.

Kessel first three years in the league versus Jordan Eberle first three years in the NHL.
Games played
Kessel 222 Eberle 195
points
Kessel 126 Eberle 156
Draw your own conclusions!!!
- hunter3333

Way to play with numbers to make Eberle look better, well done.
Eberle's first 3yrs were from 20-22yrs of age...
Kessel's were 18-20yrs of age...now if you take Kessel's numbers from 20-22:
222 games, 179pts...68goals for Eberle, 98 for Kessel.
Now draw your own conclusions.

Way to play with numbers to make Eberle look better, well done.
Eberle's first 3yrs were from 20-22yrs of age...
Kessel's were 18-20yrs of age...now if you take Kessel's numbers from 20-22:
222 games, 179pts...68goals for Eberle, 98 for Kessel.
Now draw your own conclusions.
- BoBBeR56

Lets compare Eberles first 3 seasons to Kessels 3rd, 4th, and 5th seasons. Makes sense.

Lets compare Eberles first 3 seasons to Kessels 3rd, 4th, and 5th seasons. Makes sense.
- mochoson

Better to compare them while they are the same age no?
Rather than an 18yr old starting in the NHL vs a 20yr old starting in the NHL...

In the last 4 seasons Meszaros has played more games and has a much much better +/- than Gilbert. And he is younger. And he has waaaaay more playoff experience but yah Gilbert is the way to go.
- Marshalle

so because Gilbert played on the pooptiest team on the league that couldn't make the playoffs, Meszaros is better?

Way to play with numbers to make Eberle look better, well done.
Eberle's first 3yrs were from 20-22yrs of age...
Kessel's were 18-20yrs of age...now if you take Kessel's numbers from 20-22:
222 games, 179pts...68goals for Eberle, 98 for Kessel.
Now draw your own conclusions.
- BoBBeR56

so a .8PPG compared to a .806PPG? with more years in the league? lol

Better to compare them while they are the same age no?
Rather than an 18yr old starting in the NHL vs a 20yr old starting in the NHL...
- BoBBeR56

No, not really. If they make the team they belong there as far as I'm concerned. Their age is irrelevant.

Enduring a rookie and sophomore season and learning how to be a pro, however, is very relevant.

Better to compare them while they are the same age no?
Rather than an 18yr old starting in the NHL vs a 20yr old starting in the NHL...
- BoBBeR56

Why are you here? I'm so sick of Leafs fans coming into Clout's blogs EVERY time the Leafs are mentioned once.