Skinner had more points than Hall in his first year. Does that mean he is a better player? Of course not.

Few defenseman have had a better first three years than Dion Phaneuf, but that certainly doesnt mean Dion is the best in the NHL.

Right now, today, I would say Kessel is better than both. Tomorrow, who knows.
- Leafs43

Ebs and kessel is a reasonable debate. Prob go with kessel actually. At least at present.

No one outside toronto takes kessel over hall.

I'll take any improvement on EDM before I take heart, soul, and kumbaya in jones
- TheNugeIsHuge

Jones 2 years ago is better than Penner or Gilbert. Oilers are hoping Jones will bounce back after a bad injury. Anyone wanting Penner or Gilbert back thinking they make us better is sorely mistaken.

This.

And honestly. I don't think Gilbert is better than Potter. Potter has the best shot on our D. And is good on the pp. Used properly, he is a perfect #7 dman.
- Iggysbff

Ahhhh...yeah. Im no Gilbert fan (I've made no secret of it) but just about anyone is better than Potter.

I'd like Mueller. He's like hemsky, great player but injury prone
- TheNugeIsHuge

Yep. If he goes down slot in lander. Improves our depth though and let's us run lines with scoring ability and size.

sorry I hate talking about what ifs. when its closer to the season il bb. but as far as smyth goes what a joke, great gritty player and use to b all heart but come on man retire, last season u were a joke kind of embarrassed to see him play this year. just retire and save face then play and make ppl hate u. I don't want to remember him as a player who played to long, ur rich just hang them up

Jones 2 years ago is better than Penner or Gilbert. Oilers are hoping Jones will bounce back after a bad injury. Anyone wanting Penner or Gilbert back thinking they make us better is sorely mistaken.
- Iggysbff

alright. This guy's fallen a lot in my books too. Jailbait can take his slot

Ebs and kessel is a reasonable debate. Prob go with kessel actually. At least at present.

No one outside toronto takes kessel over hall.
- hugefemale dog77

yea. Kessel and Ebs are similar players. Both pretty one dimensional, both pretty great scorers. I'd take kessel over eberle right now. Not 2-3 years down the road.

You clearly missed on Belov the "(unless he's really good)"

Gilbert>N Schultz potter larsen. He's bad upgrading sh*t, but it's an upgrade. I don't think you guys remember how good Gibby was

Jones is not good. He's known for his defensive ability, when really he's constantly out of position and has terrible D zone coverage. People just think he's trying really hard because he falls all the imte.
- TheNugeIsHuge

I think he's moreso known for being an energy guy who can pitch in 15+ goals. He's about 8th or 9th off the bench for me in a key defensive situation, but he is a mucker that forechecks better than most people on our team. We could use a couple goals like this one:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2012020441

whole point of the story, I see Penner as a roster move for the sake of a roster move, but maybe that's just me.

Ahhhh...yeah. Im no Gilbert fan (I've made no secret of it) but just about anyone is better than Potter.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Yes Gilbert is "better". But better for this team? No. Gilbert would cost 4 times as much and still only be a 5-6 guy.

alright. This guy's fallen a lot in my books too. Jailbait can take his slot
- TheNugeIsHuge

Just because someone disagrees about the Oil taking back a bunch of retreads that were chased out recently?

Mact has already killed these rumours. Why are we even still discussing?

I just think if your shot goes in more frequently/per shot, you've got a better shot. Also TO plays in the east so Kessel had the benefit of playing Lindback, young Markstrom/theodore, Ellis, bryzgalov, pavelec, nabokov, price(who had a .905)
- TheNugeIsHuge

Fair point. There are just too many factors to shooting/scoring to reduce it simply to shooting percentage. A player might mechanically speaking have a good shot but sucks at getting into good scoring areas or has no patience for a shot to open up. You may lump that all in to good shot bad shot, but I wouldn't. Smyth is excellent at getting into good scoring areas, shot above 12% for a good chunk of years in his prime and scored a bunch of goals, and he has a terrible shot.

The whole thing is academic as I say because it's not like Hall has a bad shot.

Yes Gilbert is "better". But better for this team? No. Gilbert would cost 4 times as much and still only be a 5-6 guy.
- Iggysbff

I hate them both and hope they get anusAIDS.

I think he's moreso known for being an energy guy who can pitch in 15+ goals. He's about 8th or 9th off the bench for me in a key defensive situation, but he is a mucker that forechecks better than most people on our team. We could use a couple goals like this one:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2012020441

whole point of the story, I see Penner as a roster move for the sake of a roster move, but maybe that's just me.
- Morris

I'd like someone to get some greasy goals, but you can also see Jones lose every battle n race. To me he's a fringe 3rd liner, and if EDM plans on making the playoffs, Jones can't be in their top 9.

also do people not watch hemmer in those highlights and want to welcome him back in open arms? the guy's flying. I think people just remember how he played with a broken foot in his last 8 games. I hope MacT doesn't find a deal for him

You'll find few outside of Leafs Nation that would take 26 year old Kessel over 20 year old Hall.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

I would take Hall every day.

Yes Gilbert is "better". But better for this team? No. Gilbert would cost 4 times as much and still only be a 5-6 guy.
- Iggysbff

he just got bought out. I bet he takes 2M and that's an absolute highway robbery

Fair point. There are just too many factors to shooting/scoring to reduce it simply to shooting percentage. A player might mechanically speaking have a good shot but sucks at getting into good scoring areas or has no patience for a shot to open up. You may lump that all in to good shot bad shot, but I wouldn't. Smyth is excellent at getting into good scoring areas, shot above 12% for a good chunk of years in his prime and scored a bunch of goals, and he has a terrible shot.

The whole thing is academic as I say because it's not like Hall has a bad shot.
- Morris

that smytty point is damn true. I think I have a better slapper than that (frank)

Just because someone disagrees about the Oil taking back a bunch of retreads that were chased out recently?

Mact has already killed these rumours. Why are we even still discussing?
- Iggysbff

because people don't see Gilbert and Penner as upgrades. I certainly do.

that smytty point is damn true. I think I have a better slapper than that (frank)
- TheNugeIsHuge

That being said I'm not being too fair to him because his hand eye was pretty decent for deflections back in the day.

I'd like someone to get some greasy goals, but you can also see Jones lose every battle n race. To me he's a fringe 3rd liner, and if EDM plans on making the playoffs, Jones can't be in their top 9.

also do people not watch hemmer in those highlights and want to welcome him back in open arms? the guy's flying. I think people just remember how he played with a broken foot in his last 8 games. I hope MacT doesn't find a deal for him
- TheNugeIsHuge

More like we remember how well he's played with an injured everything in the last 5 years. I think Hemmer still has some gas in the tank but it's time to move on.

because people don't see Gilbert and Penner as upgrades. I certainly do.
- TheNugeIsHuge

We'll agree to disagree then.

Kessel is one of those who's slightly over rated by leaf fans, but at the same time seriously under rated by everyone else.
- Jeropotato

Kessel is the ultimate NHL luxury, a highly skilled, one dimensional, purely offensive player. He can help put your team over the top, but starting a team with that type of player as a foundation piece is very risky.

because people don't see Gilbert and Penner as upgrades. I certainly do.
- TheNugeIsHuge

I wish hockey had a "wins above replacement" stat like baseball. I dunno how many Penner or Gibby would get us, but you do have a point that it may be better to get marginal upgrades while we can then stand pat and complain that we can't make major upgrades.

Penner wouldn't be my choice because he strikes me as a goof, but Gilbert I'd explore in a depth role. That would probably mean sending Larsen to the AHL for the year though, since he'd have to clear waivers on the way back up.

More like we remember how well he's played with an injured everything in the last 5 years. I think Hemmer still has some gas in the tank but it's time to move on.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Dude. You must have gotten laid this morning or something. You're all mellow and poop. And talking completely rationally. You even have the Laffs fans digging your poop today...

I wish hockey had a "wins above replacement" stat like baseball. I dunno how many Penner or Gibby would get us, but you do have a point that it may be better to get marginal upgrades while we can then stand pat and complain that we can't make major upgrades.

Penner wouldn't be my choice because he strikes me as a goof, but Gilbert I'd explore in a depth role. That would probably mean sending Larsen to the AHL for the year though, since he'd have to clear waivers on the way back up.
- Morris

Id rather pursue Coburn or even Mezsaros. Or a case of bird flu. (frank) Gilbert. (frank) him in his stupid ass.

Damnit Morris. You got me missing oiler hockey. #bringbackhemmer