No but the fact that we have Laughton does make Couturier more tradeable imo.
- JAKEw1234

i get that it may make you more open to looking to move him, but does that mean you would settle for less than you deem his market value to be?

A bit flawed there my friend. Coots will be an RFA in 12 months, which is much different. And it's also not right to just write off coots as "a guy who will be a free agent in 12 months". He's a very valuable player. A future 1st line two-way player with lots of leadership upside. If he really discovers his offensive game, he'll be a better version of Mike Richards. He's the kind of guy who could grow up with Seth Jones, and be the #1 center they've been looking for for so long for 10 years or more. And dont underrate Read as a 3rd line forward. He's a young top 6, all situations two-way forward with good leadership upside that will be able to put up 20-25 goals a season. That's nothing to laugh at. and Coburn, while not the most offensively gifted guy, is a solid #3 shutdown dman with big size and again, with good leadership upside. You make the package sound so quaint, when it's actually quite a good group of players and picks.

EDIT: I'm not saying they will trade him to us for that package, I'm just sayin that the package you made it out to be sounds like it couldn't even get a team's 2nd line winger. It's definitely a sizeable package. But ya, they could hold out for a pretty unreasonable amount, and the money they've already dropped on him already does have an impact. Just don't underrate our players.
- JAKEw1234

I'm not writing off Couturier at all.

Matt Read will be a UFA next summer. He's not a 3rd liner, but he will be a UFA.

I'm saying Cousins projects as a third liner, despite his offensive production in the OHL.

It wouldn't be enough to land Weber. If it was, I doubt Holmgren would hesitate to make the move. We're not talking about a 2nd line winger, we're talking about a Norris Trophy level defenseman in the prime of his career.

I'm not undervaluing anything

i get that it may make you more open to looking to move him, but does that mean you would settle for less than you deem his market value to be?
- stayinthefnnet

No but packages that people are suggesting of Coots and Schenn ++++ is pretty far over market value. I think my package is actually border lining an over payment.

Not you, that was in response to Jsaq writing the package off as a guy who's a free agent in 12 months, a 3rd line forward, a 2nd pair dman, and some picks. It's just not close to enough justice for a package of Couturier, Read, Coburn, a mid-tier prospect, 2 1sts, and a 2nd.
- JAKEw1234

there definitely is a lot of value there. id rather exchange read, coburn, a mid tier prospect, and the 2nd for voracek though from a nashville perspective. and for the very reason youd probably say no youd take voracek over that grouping is why id rather have it from a predators point of view

No but packages that people are suggesting of Coots and Schenn ++++ is pretty far over market value. I think my package is actually border lining an over payment.
- JAKEw1234

The reported asking price last summer was Couturier, Schenn and 2 1st rounders.

No but packages that people are suggesting of Coots and Schenn ++++ is pretty far over market value. I think my package is actually border lining an over payment.
- JAKEw1234

i think we may just be differing on semantics here. i think the market on a superstar IS an overpayment of sorts. lesser pieces such as cousins and a second may add quantity to the pile, but in the grand scheme of things they really dont add the type of quality id be looking for to get in return.

The reported asking price last summer was Couturier, Schenn and 2 1st rounders.
- Jsaquella

and thats exactly what id want for him still. if anything, the contract fiasco and money sunk into him already would only heighten the asking price in my eyes. id want couturier, vorachek, and 2 firsts, but would settle on schenn instead of jake. i really wouldnt be able to be worked down much from there either

i think we may just be differing on semantics here. i think the market on a superstar IS an overpayment of sorts. lesser pieces such as cousins and a second may add quantity to the pile, but in the grand scheme of things they really dont add the type of quality id be looking for to get in return.
- stayinthefnnet

The thing that Nashville is going to want, is young guys, who will be under their control for a good while and who project as top 6 forwards. Nick Cousins isn't that. Neither is Matt Read. Coburn helps, but he's not replacing Weber's offensive game

i think we may just be differing on semantics here. i think the market on a superstar IS an overpayment of sorts. lesser pieces such as cousins and a second may add quantity to the pile, but in the grand scheme of things they really dont add the type of quality id be looking for to get in return.
- stayinthefnnet

The biggest trade piece in that deal is Coots.

Even with a guy like Laughton in the mix, you are dealing POTENTIAL for a guy who is a proven top 5 d-man in the league, in the prime of his career, and a guy who does it all.

Coots could become a Selke kind of player, or he could not. He had a hot streak in shutting down Malkin, and has had some bad moments also.

and thats exactly what id want for him still. if anything, the contract fiasco and money sunk into him already would only heighten the asking price in my eyes. id want couturier, vorachek, and 2 firsts, but would settle on schenn instead of jake. i really wouldnt be able to be worked down much from there either
- stayinthefnnet

Exactly.

I'm not writing off Couturier at all.

Matt Read will be a UFA next summer. He's not a 3rd liner, but he will be a UFA.

I'm saying Cousins projects as a third liner, despite his offensive production in the OHL.

It wouldn't be enough to land Weber. If it was, I doubt Holmgren would hesitate to make the move. We're not talking about a 2nd line winger, we're talking about a Norris Trophy level defenseman in the prime of his career.

I'm not undervaluing anything
- Jsaquella

Like most trades with UFAs, an extension would almost definitely be worked out between Nashville and Read if such a trade were to happen. And by trying to make the package seem like a meager amount I think you did undervalue it. Look at what we paid for Pronger. Lupul, Sbisa, 2 1sts, and a 3rd. Sure, Pronger was 35, but Pronger was better at 35 than Weber is at 27. We'd definitely need to offer more than the value Lupul, Sbisa, 2 1sts, and a 3rd held then, but Coots and Schenn ++++ is much much more than we'd have to pay.

The biggest trade piece in that deal is Coots.

Even with a guy like Laughton in the mix, you are dealing POTENTIAL for a guy who is a proven top 5 d-man in the league, in the prime of his career, and a guy who does it all.

Coots could become a Selke kind of player, or he could not. He had a hot streak in shutting down Malkin, and has had some bad moments also.
- flyer_nutter

That's the other thing, Couturier probably had more value last summer than he does now. He's coming off a year where he had a sophomore slump and struggled.

The biggest trade piece in that deal is Coots.

Even with a guy like Laughton in the mix, you are dealing POTENTIAL for a guy who is a proven top 5 d-man in the league, in the prime of his career, and a guy who does it all.

Coots could become a Selke kind of player, or he could not. He had a hot streak in shutting down Malkin, and has had some bad moments also.
- flyer_nutter

exactly. like i said, if i were nashville id really be wanting jake included as well, who i think is on his way to being a premier guy at a very reasonable deal

Like most trades with UFAs, an extension would almost definitely be worked out between Nashville and Read if such a trade were to happen. And by trying to make the package seem like a meager amount I think you did undervalue it. Look at what we paid for Pronger. Lupul, Sbisa, 2 1sts, and a 3rd. Sure, Pronger was 35, but Pronger was better at 35 than Weber is at 27. We'd definitely need to offer more than the value Lupul, Sbisa, 2 1sts, and a 3rd held then, but Coots and Schenn ++++ is much much more than we'd have to pay.
- JAKEw1234

I'm not saying it's meager, but it doesn't meet Nashville's needs as a budget team.

They need young guys, who project as top 6 forwards, who they can control for several years to come, on lower value contracts. What good does signing Matt Read for $3.5mm or more a year do for them?

You have to factor in the other team's needs, not just on the ice, but also in the ledger book.

And, no, Pronger at 35 is not better than Weber at 27. Both were Norris caliber players at that point in their careers, but with Weber, he's got another 7 or 8 years at that level. Pronger likely did not.

Like most trades with UFAs, an extension would almost definitely be worked out between Nashville and Read if such a trade were to happen. And by trying to make the package seem like a meager amount I think you did undervalue it. Look at what we paid for Pronger. Lupul, Sbisa, 2 1sts, and a 3rd. Sure, Pronger was 35, but Pronger was better at 35 than Weber is at 27. We'd definitely need to offer more than the value Lupul, Sbisa, 2 1sts, and a 3rd held then, but Coots and Schenn ++++ is much much more than we'd have to pay.
- JAKEw1234

i think you are kind of sweeping the 35 vs 27 thing under the rug too easily. you still have at least 7 plus years of weber being a top 3 d man in the league.

I'm not saying it's meager, but it doesn't meet Nashville's needs as a budget team.

They need young guys, who project as top 6 forwards, who they can control for several years to come, on lower value contracts. What good does signing Matt Read for $3.5mm or more a year do for them?

You have to factor in the other team's needs, not just on the ice, but also in the ledger book.

And, no, Pronger at 35 is not better than Weber at 27. Both were Norris caliber players at that point in their careers, but with Weber, he's got another 7 or 8 years at that level. Pronger likely did not.
- Jsaquella

exactly. i love read, but once he signs his next deal, he will basically be a player playing for what he is worth, and not the tremendous value he is now, which unfairly or not takes away some of his luster.

which is why i would push hard for voracek. locked up for a decent term at an awesome awesome deal. him, coots, a first and a second would get it done for me

I'm not saying it's meager, but it doesn't meet Nashville's needs as a budget team.

They need young guys, who project as top 6 forwards, who they can control for several years to come, on lower value contracts. What good does signing Matt Read for $3.5mm or more a year do for them?

You have to factor in the other team's needs, not just on the ice, but also in the ledger book.

And, no, Pronger at 35 is not better than Weber at 27. Both were Norris caliber players at that point in their careers, but with Weber, he's got another 7 or 8 years at that level. Pronger likely did not.
- Jsaquella

Right, that's the big thing. I think Pronger was better at 35 than Weber at 27, but Weber still does have 7 or more years of being a top dman. Yes, you're probably right about them asking a crazy price, and I personally am strongly against trading the farm to get a mid-aged guy. If we trade value like that, I want Pietrangelo who is 4 years younger than Weber, is a top 5 dman in the league now, and hasn't even reached his potential yet. But ya, trading for either of these players really is a pipe dream.

exactly. i love read, but once he signs his next deal, he will basically be a player playing for what he is worth, and not the tremendous value he is now, which unfairly or not takes away some of his luster.

which is why i would push hard for voracek. locked up for a decent term at an awesome awesome deal. him, coots, a first and a second would get it done for me
- stayinthefnnet

Read is also older. He's 27, where Voracek isn't even 24 yet, and Schenn and Couturier are both under 22.

The other factor is the sexy factor, names that will put asses in seats. Not sure Read, Coburn and Cousins do that

exactly. i love read, but once he signs his next deal, he will basically be a player playing for what he is worth, and not the tremendous value he is now, which unfairly or not takes away some of his luster.

which is why i would push hard for voracek. locked up for a decent term at an awesome awesome deal. him, coots, a first and a second would get it done for me
- stayinthefnnet

I'd like to keep Voracek out of any deal, I think he's going to be one of the top scorers in the league

Read is also older. He's 27, where Voracek isn't even 24 yet, and Schenn and Couturier are both under 22.

The other factor is the sexy factor, names that will put asses in seats. Not sure Read, Coburn and Cousins do that
- Jsaquella

yeah. i think were on the same page in this one. voracek and couturier are young enough to be the core along with jones. having that trio of flashy young talent to have up on posters in the stadium, and sell shirts of, will make it a little easier for a franchise to rebound from losing essentially the one jersey every one of their fans own.

Right, that's the big thing. I think Pronger was better at 35 than Weber at 27, but Weber still does have 7 or more years of being a top dman. Yes, you're probably right about them asking a crazy price, and I personally am strongly against trading the farm to get a mid-aged guy. If we trade value like that, I want Pietrangelo who is 4 years younger than Weber, is a top 5 dman in the league now, and hasn't even reached his potential yet. But ya, trading for either of these players really is a pipe dream.
- JAKEw1234

Except, Pronger at 35 wasn't better than Weber at 27. Pronger was showing small signs of decline, despite still being an elite level defenseman. Weber is just entering his prime. In fact, if Pronger wasn't 35, I doubt Anaheim trades him.

And yes, they will ask a crazy price, and if he is available, the Flyers will not be the only team involved in discussions. Also, it would be better to trade for Pietrangelo, as he's only 23.

I definitely agree that it's a pipe dream for either player to end up a Flyer in the very near future

I'd like to keep Voracek out of any deal, I think he's going to be one of the top scorers in the league
- JAKEw1234

haha i dont blame you man. i think the dude is a stud. but you need to think about it from the other perspective too. the reasons you want to keep him are the same reasons the other team would want him.

how about this? how about we make a package of smaller, but still decent, parts for giroux? i dont think many would be quick to move him for a deal that didnt bring a stud back

yeah. i think were on the same page in this one. voracek and couturier are young enough to be the core along with jones. having that trio of flashy young talent to have up on posters in the stadium, and sell shirts of, will make it a little easier for a franchise to rebound from losing essentially the one jersey every one of their fans own.
- stayinthefnnet

Jake is also under control for a few more years, at a very reasonable cap hit, assuming his offense stays where it's at or gets better.

Except, Pronger at 35 wasn't better than Weber at 27. Pronger was showing small signs of decline, despite still being an elite level defenseman. Weber is just entering his prime. In fact, if Pronger wasn't 35, I doubt Anaheim trades him.

And yes, they will ask a crazy price, and if he is available, the Flyers will not be the only team involved in discussions. Also, it would be better to trade for Pietrangelo, as he's only 23.

I definitely agree that it's a pipe dream for either player to end up a Flyer in the very near future
- Jsaquella[/quote]

definitely, and i hope you guys acquire neither. but it makes for better conversation than discussing the importance of jay rosehill or the acquisition of matt d'agostini haha

[quote=Jsaquella]Except, Pronger at 35 wasn't better than Weber at 27. Pronger was showing small signs of decline, despite still being an elite level defenseman. Weber is just entering his prime. In fact, if Pronger wasn't 35, I doubt Anaheim trades him.

And yes, they will ask a crazy price, and if he is available, the Flyers will not be the only team involved in discussions. Also, it would be better to trade for Pietrangelo, as he's only 23.

I definitely agree that it's a pipe dream for either player to end up a Flyer in the very near future
- stayinthefnnet[/quote]

definitely, and i hope you guys acquire neither. but it makes for better conversation than discussing the importance of jay rosehill or the acquisition of matt d'agostini haha

How dare you poop on Jay Rosehill and his importance!!!


Ah (frank) me, I got to go to bed