David Clarkson, Toronto, 7 years, $36.75M, $5.25/yr., modified NMC.
Sergei Gonchar, Dallas, 2 years, $10M, $5/yr.
Boyd Gordon, Edmonton, 3 years, $9M, $3/yr.
Ryane Clowe, New Jersey, 5 years, $24.25M, $4.85/yr.
Andrew Ference, Edmonton, 4 years, $13M, $3.25/yr, NMC.
Tyler Bozak, Toronto, 5 years, $21M, $4.2/yr, modified NTC.

Those are just a sample of the deals given out this offseason, setting aside nonsense from previous seasons like Jeff Finger. Holmgren spends like a drunken sailor, and has missed the mark a fair few times. There's no question of that. To claim he's the "one GM" with that tendency, though, given some of the ludicrous contracts that get handed out yearly in the NHL, by many teams?
- dilbert719

The best was actually Minnesota crying poor while handing out the Parise/Suter contracts.

It's not insulting to offer someone who has never been a finalist for the Norris the same money as someone who has won it when they are at the same point in their careers.
- Antilles

You're 100% right on this. People here are not differentiating between Letang's impending UFA status, and AP's RFA status.

RFA/UFA makes a huge difference for mid-level talent because other GM's aren't willing to dole out big bucks for them, but Elite players are aware that other teams covet them as well.

They know what they are worth and if you don't want to give it to them they know the Holmgrens of the world will.

So they wait to sign until the offer sheet comes their way and they get the money they want. Is that right? No but that's the way it works.

The only advantage you get from having an RFA is the ability to match once they don't take a qualifier and compensation if they go elsewhere. From a negotiation stand point him being an RFA doesn't make him obligated to take less money.

If you want the guy locked up long term (and you should) Then you'll need to over pay for the first few years and then get your value in his prime.
- Hype97

Exactly. Sidney Crosby didn't take a low contract because he was an RFA. He was an elite player and got paid like one.

You're 100% right on this. People here are not differentiating between Letang's impending UFA status, and AP's RFA status.
- isles10289

No, we are. The point is, he's an elite talent, and he's better than Letang. UFA or RFA makes a difference for the 2nd pair defensemen and the third line forwards, not for the elite players of the league (Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.)

Exactly. Sidney Crosby didn't take a low contract because he was an RFA. He was an elite player and got paid like one.
- jmatchett383

At the point where you are suggesting a 26 year old is past his prime, and comparing Pietrangelo to Crosby, your posts become not worth reading.

Flyers fans really need to start looking at players, figure out what Holmgren would pay them, then subtract somewhere between half a million and a million to figure out what a players market value is. One GM with a tendency to spend like a drunken sailor is not where market value is set.
- Antilles

In general I would agree, but homer did an outstanding job signing all 3 players.

All 3 were signed for under market value compared to the money spent in the nhl on Friday. Even the streit contract for a puck mover was not really that bad when compared to what others got on Friday. Yes, the years stink, but if you want the best puck moving d on the market that what it takes.

The flyers also have better d pair parter options for streit then the isles had. He's just a better fit in Phila.

Also homer does not have the luxury of going year after year of missing the playoffs. That simply does not work in Phila. You can do that in a St Louis for instance, but in Phila it's a major problem. That's reality.

AP is worth 8 mill over 8 years. Not even a question. Especially after Friday. If your St. Louis this is a good problem to have. He's top 5 all around d in the league and in 2013 that's what he is going to get.

No, we are. The point is, he's an elite talent, and he's better than Letang. UFA or RFA makes a difference for the 2nd pair defensemen and the third line forwards, not for the elite players of the league (Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.)
- jmatchett383

Doughty got 7, Karlsson for 6.5, McDonagh got 4.7. Why should STL give AP more than 7 at most until they're forced to by an offer sheet?

At the point where you are suggesting a 26 year old is past his prime, and comparing Pietrangelo to Crosby, your posts become not worth reading.
- Antilles

The point is an Elite player at his position isn't obligated to take less money. I don't think he was comparing player quality as much as he was pointing out that RFA status doesn't give a team an advantage when negotiating with a player that is among the league's best at what he does.

At the point where you are suggesting a 26 year old is past his prime, and comparing Pietrangelo to Crosby, your posts become not worth reading.
- Antilles

Yes, because a player is not getting paid to play past his prime when he's 34. Also, you ever hear of an example? I listed elite players in the league showing that RFA has no bearing. I never said Crosby and AP were the same player, I said they were both elite level RFAs.

The point is an Elite player at his position isn't obligated to take less money. I don't think he was comparing player quality as much as he was pointing out that RFA status doesn't give a team an advantage when negotiating with a player that is among the league's best at what he does.
- Hype97

Thanks. Guess I should have stated what I meant more explicitly. Crosby is the best player in the game. AP is not. That said, they are both elite talents, and therefore, the usual RFA/UFA differences don't affect them like they do the lesser players.

Doughty got 7, Karlsson for 6.5, McDonagh got 4.7. Why should STL give AP more than 7 at most until they're forced to by an offer sheet?
- isles10289

Because doughty, suter, and letang got +7 per year and Piets is just as good, if not better.

Thanks. Guess I should have stated what I meant more explicitly. Crosby is the best player in the game. AP is not. That said, they are both elite talents, and therefore, the usual RFA/UFA differences don't affect them like they do the lesser players.
- jmatchett383

Agreed, I get what Blues fans mean when saying he's not worth 7.5-8 and more realistically should get 6.5 but that only works if you want to sign him to a 1 year deal.

Unfortunately with a player like AP you need to pay for his Future value when locking him down now not just his current value.

I think the Blues will do that.

The point is an Elite player at his position isn't obligated to take less money. I don't think he was comparing player quality as much as he was pointing out that RFA status doesn't give a team an advantage when negotiating with a player that is among the league's best at what he does.
- Hype97

Crosby was an all-star, league MVP, league scoring leader. Malkin was an all-star, league MVP finalist. Either would have gotten far more as UFA's. They are more examples of players getting less as RFA's than they could on the open market.

Rumor on twitter this morning that he refused a 40 million/6yr deal. He's likely looking for same contract as Letang.
- TimBits

If he wants the same contract as Letang, he should wait a couple of years to see if he can provide the same resume as Letang. I think AP will end up being the better player, but he's not there yet. A deal of 8/$50M seems more than fair given what he has accomplished vs. his yet unproven potential.

Because doughty, suter, and letang got +7 per year and Piets is just as good, if not better.
- drummer829

Which is why he has been a Norris finalist and they haven't... oh wait.

Because doughty, suter, and letang got +7 per year and Piets is just as good, if not better.
- drummer829

Suter and Letang were UFA's, and are therefore irrelevant here. They had different contract statuses and different leverage.

If he wants the same contract as Letang, he should wait a couple of years to see if he can provide the same resume as Letang. I think AP will end up being the better player, but he's not there yet. A deal of 8/$50M seems more than fair given what he has accomplished vs. his yet unproven potential.
- bluenatic411

I thought someone said he already turned down 6 years $40M. Not sure why he'd do 8 years $50M.

Suter and Letang were UFA's, and are therefore irrelevant here. They had different contract statuses and different leverage.
- isles10289

Agreed. the only bearing on a player's value si whether he's an RFA or a UFA. he's be lucky get to $2.5M for 8 years.

Crosby was an all-star, league MVP, league scoring leader. Malkin was an all-star, league MVP finalist. Either would have gotten far more as UFA's. They are more examples of players getting less as RFA's than they could on the open market.
- Antilles

But that wasn't due to the fact that the were RFA's. They didn't have to accept those deals, they wanted to.

To argue that they could've gotten more as UFA's doesn't work because you don't know what kind of offer sheets they may have received. For all you know a random team may have sent a 9 mil offer sheet to either guy that they didn't sign because they were willing to take less to win in Pitt.

Agreed. the only bearing on a player's value si whether he's an RFA or a UFA. he's be lucky get to $2.5M for 8 years.
- jmatchett383

Umm or 6.5 like similarly talented RFA's are getting.

Suter and Letang were UFA's, and are therefore irrelevant here. They had different contract statuses and different leverage.
- isles10289

His contract should be more than Karlsson. Has just as much of offensive upside but plays much better D. I wish he would take less, but the fact is he knows what he's worth. With the cap on the rise, 7 mil per year for one of the leagues best d men won't be bad in 3 years.

But that wasn't due to the fact that the were RFA's. They didn't have to accept those deals, they wanted to.

To argue that they could've gotten more as UFA's doesn't work because you don't know what kind of offer sheets they may have received. For all you know a random team may have sent a 9 mil offer sheet to either guy that they didn't sign because they were willing to take less to win in Pitt.
- Hype97

lol. So you want to argue what Petro deserves because of what he could get from an OS, point out elite players getting paid as RFA's, but say what they could get as an offer sheet doesn't work as an argument? And you psychically know they wanted to accept those deals, but that Petro doesn't want to accept one with the Blues? For all you know a random team may have sent a 9 mil offer sheet to Petro that he didn't sign because he is willing to take less to win in Stl.

You can't have it both ways. Players get less as RFA's than they would on the open market. Even elite players. Could there be other concerns involved? Sure, but you never really know. And those exact same concerns could be involved with Petro.

Which is why he has been a Norris finalist and they haven't... oh wait.
- Antilles

Forget about the Norris. Everyone here knows the Norris is not a true representation of all around defensemen.

AP is all ready better than the players mentioned. Having watched letang and watched him under pressure in person...AP is a tier above. He's on the Chara or Weber level.

If you still do not think so then consider what you would accept in return for him. If we are talking about a trade that would have to include players like Read, Schenn, Coburn, Hagg and a number 1 pick then the return is a player that is worth 8 mill a year easy. The flyers would not even do that for weber. Not saying they would for AP, but the flyers would only consider moving that much for a flat out stud 2 way d in his mid twenties.

The bottom line is if St. Louis is going to continue to be a decent team with promise which is what they are today and let's be honest that's a healthy change from the past 10 or 20 years then they need to be prepared to spend money.

He's not taking $6M/year on an 8-year deal. He's a top-5 defenseman, he'll get paid like one. If you know the salary cap is set to rise, and you know what players that you're better than (Letang) are getting paid, then your long-term salary should take into consideration comparables and the expected rise in the cap over the duration of your deal. His salary will start with a $7
- jmatchett383

Letang was a pending UFA, whereas AP is an RFA...big difference. Letang's RFA deal was 3.5m. You can't keep comparing dissimilar situations.

Pietrangelo's market value is between 6.5 and 7million per year
- bbsunshine92

His market value is what ever someone is willing to sign him for. And for the best young Dman in the NHL it starts higher than Letangs.