this is true

but which pairing proved to have the most staying power?

there really is no argument there either... so what do you do with young players who prove themselves at one level?

you move them up to the next level
- Dozzer

right...

the issue here, however, is that if he concedes that Franson and Fraser were 3rd pairing, that means that Gardiner was 2nd pairing when in the lineup.

and despite the fact that is true, HH just can't accept that.

oh, and when Kostak wasn't playing with Dion, he played with Gunnar (33% w gunnar and 32% with Dion). And Gunnar was 2nd pairing all year -almost 3 mins more ESTOI/G than Franson-Fraser.

this shouldn't even be debatable.

right...

the issue here, however, is that if he concedes that Franson and Fraser were 3rd pairing, that means that Gardiner was 2nd pairing when in the lineup.

and despite the fact that is true, HH just can't accept that.

oh, and when Kostak wasn't playing with Dion, he played with Gunnar (33% w gunnar and 32% with Dion). And Gunnar was 2nd pairing all year -almost 3 mins more ESTOI/G than Franson-Fraser.

this shouldn't even be debatable.
- Big_Lightnin

Not true or I'd agree.

i think you patch the eye holes on the bag you're wearing on your head

have a lil faith man

young d core.. they're bound to get better each year as they learn the game
- Dozzer

They may not have space to keep them all, and thats the dumb part. All I'm saying is this is clearly bad cap management. And how come that logic doesn't apply to Scrivens and Reimer? They could have had everyone back plus the signings. Its just dumb.

right...

the issue here, however, is that if he concedes that Franson and Fraser were 3rd pairing, that means that Gardiner was 2nd pairing when in the lineup.

and despite the fact that is true, HH just can't accept that.

oh, and when Kostak wasn't playing with Dion, he played with Gunnar (33% w gunnar and 32% with Dion). And Gunnar was 2nd pairing all year -almost 3 mins more ESTOI/G than Franson-Fraser.

this shouldn't even be debatable.
- Big_Lightnin

on a per game basis you are right.. they were bottom pairing for ice time

but you have to give them something for their staying power on a pairing that is typically juggled the most

so.. promote them to the second line.. they proved their worth through consistency, while the others did not (not as much anyways)

I played the game, never finished it, but i remember it being awesome. Im checking out BTS right now.

Check out those faces, looks identical to Dafoe and Page.
- Leafland

It is. Check out the making on YouTube. All the scenes in the game are acted. They have like a hundred little dot sensors stuck on their face and body. Kind of like how they made the younger Jeff Bridges (Scu) in that new Tron.

you arent listening

if the award is less than 3.5million then the leafs cant walk away

thats the rules.

so the arbitrator could give him 1.4million and the leafs would HAVE to sign it.
- Dozzer

What are walk-away rights?

Walk-away rights are held by the club in only player-elected arbitration and when the player's salary is above a certain figure (slightly above $1 million). If the club has elected one-year arbitration, the player becomes an unrestricted free agent. If the club has elected two-year arbitration, the club must enter into a one-year SPC with the player based on the terms of the contract. The player then becomes an unrestricted free agent at the end of the contract.

A club is limited in the exercise of walk-away rights. A club may only walk away once if it is subject to one or two arbitrations, twice if subject to three or four, and three if subject to five, etc. A walk-away right exercised on a previous year's two-year award counts for the following year.

i think you should patch the eye holes on the bag you're wearing on your head

have a lil faith man

young d core.. they're bound to get better each year as they learn the game
- Dozzer

As I posted earlier:
By that time the guys they want to keep will be due for more money. Say for instance your right and they keep getting better. Fran and Fras get one year deals, and then they improve, Gardner as well. They will get even more money next off season and soforth, this is the classic cap scenario. I know you guys want to be optimistic, but they really aren't being that smart right now.

Wow probably already been said St Louis with only 10 million to sign Pietrangelo and Stewart
7 years 7.5 m..... cost us 2 1st a second and a third

need to trade Liles (can we get a third rounder for him) and Franson (can we get a 1st rounder for him?) this frees up the cap space and recoups one of the 1st and the 3rd.

Pietrangelo Phaneuf
Gardiner Gunnarson
Fraser Blacker/brennan

Get her done.... Basically Pietrangelo for a 1st a 2nd, liles and Frason
- jribout

Doubt the Blues let their ace on the D slip away.

Hey how about the Flyers trade Coots for Bozak, Gunner & a 1st in 2014. The way I see it, Philly has no place for a 1st line center like Coots. They will look like this down the middle: 1st center: Giroux
2nd center: Vinny
3rd center: Schenn
4th center: Bozak ?

I see Schenn as a career 3rd line checking center. So the Flyers will need a career 4th line center. Bozak fits the bill perfectly. No way Coots is a 4th liner. So do all Leaf Nation a favour .......AND FREEEEEEEEE COOOTS!!!!!!!!!!
- GCHonda

You're deals are getting progressively worse...

It is. Check out the making on YouTube. All the scenes in the game are acted. They have like a hundred little dot sensors stuck on their face and body. Kind of like how they made the younger Jeff Bridges (Scu) in that new Tron.
- Tee-Dot

Reminds me of LA NOIRE, with the facial recognition. Great game as well.

They may not have space to keep them all, and thats the dumb part. All I'm saying is this is clearly bad cap management. And how come that logic doesn't apply to Scrivens and Reimer? They could have had everyone back plus the signings. Its just dumb.
- aminnes

10 million is more than enough to sign fraser franson kadri and gunnar

gunnar.. coming off a sub par season.. not a huge value league wide.. he'll get around 2.5

franson and kadri are in the same boat.. half a season a 4 million dollar player does not make.. they will both land about 3 (considering bozak only landed 4.2 as a UFA.. gotta take that into consideration)

fraser 1.25 is enough to land him, just needs to be one way

so thats about 9.75mill of the remaining cap space.. they're fine

franson cant ask for much more than subban got.. thats the measuring stick

kadri? his measuring stick is roughly duschene..but he hasnt proven as much.. nor has he proven consistency at all yet.. 3 tops for him

Right so individually their numbers were inflated. If it was Phaneuf-Gunnarsson as the constant pairing with Liles-Kostka/Gardiner as the constant pairing I'd agree with you but it wasn't.
- honesthockey

Kostka played with Gunnar more than he played with Phaneuf (marginally more, was about even actually)

Gunnar played 42% of his ES TOI with Dion, and 31% with Kostka.

That's the vast majority if his ice time.

Gunnar was 1st or 2nd pairing all year, and played with either Dion, Kostka, or Liles (8%) no one else was statistically relevant

Franson-Fraser were 3rd.

Guys...

Tone it down on the hockey talk please.

I'm trying to have a gamer discussion with Leafland and it's hard to find him amongst a sea of Fransons and Frasers.

Thanks.

Steve.

10 million is more than enough to sign fraser franson kadri and gunnar

gunnar.. coming off a sub par season.. not a huge value league wide.. he'll get around 2.5

franson and kadri are in the same boat.. half a season a 4 million dollar player does not make.. they will both land about 3 (considering bozak only landed 4.2 as a UFA.. gotta take that into consideration)

fraser 1.25 is enough to land him, just needs to be one way

so thats about 9.75mill of the remaining cap space.. they're fine

franson cant ask for much more than subban got.. thats the measuring stick

kadri? his measuring stick is roughly duschene..but he hasnt proven as much.. nor has he proven consistency at all yet.. 3 tops for him
- Dozzer

I think that's $300k higher than it needs to be too, which is why it's taking a while.

offer 2 yrs @ $900k per 1-way and Fraser takes that all day long.

As I posted earlier:
By that time the guys they want to keep will be due for more money. Say for instance your right and they keep getting better. Fran and Fras get one year deals, and then they improve, Gardner as well. They will get even more money next off season and soforth, this is the classic cap scenario. I know you guys want to be optimistic, but they really aren't being that smart right now.
- aminnes

you dont expect the leafs to hold onto all these guys forever do you?

of course some guys will have to be let go.. look at chicago.. they're a perfect model for this

establish your core.. create a good development system.. and keep shuffling guys out and bringing younger guys in

thats how it works in a cap world

I think that's $300k higher than it needs to be too, which is why it's taking a while.

offer 2 yrs @ $900k per 1-way and Fraser takes that all day long.
- Big_Lightnin

oh hell yes.. give him 3 years if thats what it takes

Guys...

Tone it down on the hockey talk please.

I'm trying to have a gamer discussion with Leafland and it's hard to find him amongst a sea of Fransons and Frasers.

Thanks.

Steve.

- Tee-Dot

you guys can PM each other all day long

You're deals are getting progressively worse...
- Flyfreaky

Hey the Flyers are gonna do the unthinkable & put Coots on the 4th line. I'm trying to prevent this from happening. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE COOOOOOOTS!!!!!!

Kostka played with Gunnar more than he played with Phaneuf (marginally more, was about even actually)

Gunnar played 42% of his ES TOI with Dion, and 31% with Kostka.

That's the vast majority if his ice time.

Gunnar was 1st or 2nd pairing all year, and played with either Dion, Kostka, or Liles (8%) no one else was statistically relevant

Franson-Fraser were 3rd.
- Big_Lightnin

Pick out whatever stat you like. I'll do the same. Second and third most even strength number were Franson Fraser. The rest were mixed with Phaneuf driving up on ice time. Top three defensemen in order with ES TOI Phaneuf, Franson, Fraser. Mix the rest up how you like. Phaneuf with whoever was first pairing. Franson-Fraser were two.

What are walk-away rights?

Walk-away rights are held by the club in only player-elected arbitration and when the player's salary is above a certain figure (slightly above $1 million). If the club has elected one-year arbitration, the player becomes an unrestricted free agent. If the club has elected two-year arbitration, the club must enter into a one-year SPC with the player based on the terms of the contract. The player then becomes an unrestricted free agent at the end of the contract.

A club is limited in the exercise of walk-away rights. A club may only walk away once if it is subject to one or two arbitrations, twice if subject to three or four, and three if subject to five, etc. A walk-away right exercised on a previous year's two-year award counts for the following year.
- jribout

the new CBA dictates those rights are void if the award is less than 3.5million

check it out.. bout half way down the article

- Teams can only walk away from a player in salary arbitration if the award is at least $3.5 million.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412844

10 million is more than enough to sign fraser franson kadri and gunnar

gunnar.. coming off a sub par season.. not a huge value league wide.. he'll get around 2.5

franson and kadri are in the same boat.. half a season a 4 million dollar player does not make.. they will both land about 3 (considering bozak only landed 4.2 as a UFA.. gotta take that into consideration)

fraser 1.25 is enough to land him, just needs to be one way

so thats about 9.75mill of the remaining cap space.. they're fine

franson cant ask for much more than subban got.. thats the measuring stick

kadri? his measuring stick is roughly duschene..but he hasnt proven as much.. nor has he proven consistency at all yet.. 3 tops for him
- Dozzer

But again, One year deals meaning:
As I posted earlier:
By that time the guys they want to keep will be due for more money. Say for instance your right and they keep getting better. Fran and Fras get one year deals, and then they improve, Gardner as well. They will get even more money next off season and soforth, this is the classic cap scenario. I know you guys want to be optimistic, but they really aren't being that smart right now.

Kostka played with Gunnar more than he played with Phaneuf (marginally more, was about even actually)

Gunnar played 42% of his ES TOI with Dion, and 31% with Kostka.

That's the vast majority if his ice time.

Gunnar was 1st or 2nd pairing all year, and played with either Dion, Kostka, or Liles (8%) no one else was statistically relevant

Franson-Fraser were 3rd.
- Big_Lightnin

They did then. Third pairing.

I got a headache today from working in the heat.

Hey the Flyers are gonna do the unthinkable & put Coots on the 4th line. I'm trying to prevent this from happening. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE COOOOOOOTS!!!!!!
- GCHonda

I think the Flyers will move Coots or B.Schenn for a young stud dman...If not then B.Schenn will play wing...

I'm doing much better now. Thanks for asking.