definitely tough to move especially with 4 years left..

think its movable if we eat 1mill or 1.5mill?
- dragus84

I think some teams would bite on that, especially if they need a center.

Exactly, that's what I was thinking. Especially with Dallas. But yeah, like someone said, I say he should get at least one more shot this coming season...if nothing works, then smell ya later.

I think there's a problem with Kadri and Grabbo as 1 and 2. That problem is you have no fall-back... and both players are pretty one-dimensional.

You can critique Bozak all you want from a perspective that he wants too much money, but he's a way better all-round player than people give him credit for.. and quite frankly between Kadri and Grabbo... Leafs wouldn't be winning a lot of faceooffs. Puck possession would suffer.

I think you only go with Kadri in the 1 spot if you think Bolland can handle the #2 spot - which would seem an overreach to me.... 'cause I don't see Bolland capable of filling the 1 spot even on a short term basis with the Leafs other first liners ... he simply doesn't have the pace.

If Nonis hasn't come to the conclusion that he need to dump Grabbo, and go either with LeCavalier as the other 1/2 then its going to be a long year...
- BorjeFan4Ever

You know what? He really isn't.

He isn't very good offensively. In fact, at times he is atrocious. He's afraid of the puck - his first instinct is to dish it off to Kessel. Everyone knows this.

Defensively, he's also not as good as people make him out to be. He was 3rd amongst forwards on the Leafs in PKTOI/G, so it's not like he is a shining star on that front.

Yes, he's good at faceoffs. Statistically speaking, it works out to about one more faceoff won per game than average. Big deal.

He has no size. He doesn't use his body. He has no grit.

Add it all up, and he's not a guy I want on my top two lines (maybe the #2 spot, but sorry, I want Kadri there until he can handle the #1 duties). I don't want Bozak at #3, because he lacks size and grit, and we now have Bolland.

So you really want to drop $5+ million on a guy that doesn't even have a clear role to play?

No thank you.

I'm guessing some GM will be dumb enough to give him over $4 million (nobody is giving him $5 milly). And it will quickly become one of the worst contracts in the league.

You know what? He really isn't.

He isn't very good offensively. In fact, at times he is atrocious. He's afraid of the puck - his first instinct is to dish it off to Kessel. Everyone knows this.

Defensively, he's also not as good as people make him out to be. He was 3rd amongst forwards on the Leafs in PKTOI/G, so it's not like he is a shining star on that front.

Yes, he's good at faceoffs. Statistically speaking, it works out to about one more faceoff won per game than average. Big deal.

He has no size. He doesn't use his body. He has no grit.

Add it all up, and he's not a guy I want on my top two lines (maybe the #2 spot, but sorry, I want Kadri there until he can handle the #1 duties). I don't want Bozak at #3, because he lacks size and grit, and we now have Bolland.

So you really want to drop $5+ million on a guy that doesn't even have a clear role to play?

No thank you.

I'm guessing some GM will be dumb enough to give him over $4 million (nobody is giving him $5 milly). And it will quickly become one of the worst contracts in the league.
- Atomic Wedgie

bye Tyler

you can sign somewhere else and never enjoy the success you did playing with Kessel

I'm kinda thinking you give hime 2013-14 to find the magic again.

If not, buh-bye.
- Atomic Wedgie

I like Grabbo, he does it give everything he has.. and he isn't intimidated - even when he should be.... but I really believe going into the season with Grabbo/Kadri as the 1 and 2 would be a disaster.... not to mention the previously often discussed chemistry thing.

If I'm Nonis (which I'm clearly not)... I have a quiet conversation with Kessel, who it would seem they rightfully are planning to resign.... and I simply ask Phil to make his preference known.... since at the end of the day the issue is really who's better suited to play with Kessel.

Unless LeCavalier signs, which would change the picture in my opinion.

I think there's a problem with Kadri and Grabbo as 1 and 2. That problem is you have no fall-back... and both players are pretty one-dimensional.

You can critique Bozak all you want from a perspective that he wants too much money, but he's a way better all-round player than people give him credit for.. and quite frankly between Kadri and Grabbo... Leafs wouldn't be winning a lot of faceooffs. Puck possession would suffer.

I think you only go with Kadri in the 1 spot if you think Bolland can handle the #2 spot - which would seem an overreach to me.... 'cause I don't see Bolland capable of filling the 1 spot even on a short term basis with the Leafs other first liners ... he simply doesn't have the pace.

If Nonis hasn't come to the conclusion that he need to dump Grabbo, and go either with LeCavalier as the other 1/2 then its going to be a long year...
- BorjeFan4Ever

Bolland is better than Bozak- if Bozak could do the job(not that he could) at #1C, so can Bolland.

Faceoffs are something that can be taught. In fact, Grabo is an example of a guy that learned how to take faceoffs after coming to the Leafs.

Did you type in the wrong name in the last paragraph there? Because if our centers next year are LeCavalier, Kadri, Bolland, and McClement, we're in (frank)ing good shape.

Bolland is better than Bozak- if Bozak could do the job(not that he could) at #1C, so can Bolland.

Faceoffs are something that can be taught. In fact, Grabo is an example of a guy that learned how to take faceoffs after coming to the Leafs.

Did you type in the wrong name in the last paragraph there? Because if our centers next year are LeCavalier, Kadri, Bolland, and McClement, we're in (frank)ing good shape.
- Feeling Glucky?

Agreed.

I like Grabbo, he does it give everything he has.. and he isn't intimidated - even when he should be.... but I really believe going into the season with Grabbo/Kadri as the 1 and 2 would be a disaster.... not to mention the previously often discussed chemistry thing.

If I'm Nonis (which I'm clearly not)... I have a quiet conversation with Kessel, who it would seem they rightfully are planning to resign.... and I simply ask Phil to make his preference known.... since at the end of the day the issue is really who's better suited to play with Kessel.

Unless LeCavalier signs, which would change the picture in my opinion.
- BorjeFan4Ever

I agree here 100 percent.

I don't htink Grabo is terrible and I respect his effort level, but he just doesn't seem to fit. It would be awesome to have him turn out to be the center he is being paid to be. But i don't see it happening.

Vinny would be amazing for 2-3 years if that was somehow possible

I like Grabbo, he does it give everything he has.. and he isn't intimidated - even when he should be.... but I really believe going into the season with Grabbo/Kadri as the 1 and 2 would be a disaster.... not to mention the previously often discussed chemistry thing.

If I'm Nonis (which I'm clearly not)... I have a quiet conversation with Kessel, who it would seem they rightfully are planning to resign.... and I simply ask Phil to make his preference known.... since at the end of the day the issue is really who's better suited to play with Kessel.

Unless LeCavalier signs, which would change the picture in my opinion.
- BorjeFan4Ever

A 4 year @$5,500,000 albatross. I don't care if Burke thought he had no other options, you simply cannot give that kind of player that contact because eventually it will come and bite you in the ass, now it is buyout possibility, stupid contact.

I agree here 100 percent.

I don't htink Grabo is terrible and I respect his effort level, but he just doesn't seem to fit. It would be awesome to have him turn out to be the center he is being paid to be. But i don't see it happening.

Vinny would be amazing for 2-3 years if that was somehow possible
- dragus84

Grabovksi still has the ability to put up 25 goals and 60 points with the proper linemates. Plus, I'm pretty sure he had some kind of stomach infection last year that caused him to lose weight. Something about changing from Russian food to North American

Telling me Grabovksi centering rather JVR/Lupul and potentially Clarkson wouldn't be a good line. All Grabo does is wheel and he can move the puck with speed and isn't afraid to muck it up. Those wingers would thrive with him. I think we have to be careful about who were getting to replace Grabo if we decide to do something hasty like buy him out.

Lecav is also 33 and wants a 5 year deal

You know what? He really isn't.

He isn't very good offensively. In fact, at times he is atrocious. He's afraid of the puck - his first instinct is to dish it off to Kessel. Everyone knows this.

Defensively, he's also not as good as people make him out to be. He was 3rd amongst forwards on the Leafs in PKTOI/G, so it's not like he is a shining star on that front.

Yes, he's good at faceoffs. Statistically speaking, it works out to about one more faceoff won per game than average. Big deal.

He has no size. He doesn't use his body. He has no grit.

Add it all up, and he's not a guy I want on my top two lines (maybe the #2 spot, but sorry, I want Kadri there until he can handle the #1 duties). I don't want Bozak at #3, because he lacks size and grit, and we now have Bolland.

So you really want to drop $5+ million on a guy that doesn't even have a clear role to play?

No thank you.

I'm guessing some GM will be dumb enough to give him over $4 million (nobody is giving him $5 milly). And it will quickly become one of the worst contracts in the league.
- Atomic Wedgie

I agree that no one will be giving 5M, nor should they. And while you are certainly entitled to your opinions, I would guess the fan base would be pretty split on how much he does or doesn't contribute.

I don't believe he's a 5M$ player, I don't actually think he's 4M$ player. But I would much rather have Bozak at 4M than Roy, Ribeiro, Booth, Weiss or name one of 20 other guys who are either completely one dimensional or just don't give a damn like Connolly.

Grabovksi still has the ability to put up 25 goals and 60 points with the proper linemates. Plus, I'm pretty sure he had some kind of stomach infection last year that caused him to lose weight. Something about changing from Russian food to North American

Telling me Grabovksi centering rather JVR/Lupul and potentially Clarkson wouldn't be a good line. All Grabo can wheel and can move the puck and isn't afraid to muck it up. I think we have to be careful about who were getting to replace Grabo if we decide to do something hasty like buy him out.

Lecav is also 33 and wants a 5 year deal
- t_leafs21

I don't see that from him. Always seems to be wheeling forsure, but never seems to be making plays.

Again, I don't think he's terrible, and he's had more good seasons than bad. But i really don't see him on that first line. at all

I like Grabbo, he does it give everything he has.. and he isn't intimidated - even when he should be.... but I really believe going into the season with Grabbo/Kadri as the 1 and 2 would be a disaster.... not to mention the previously often discussed chemistry thing.

If I'm Nonis (which I'm clearly not)... I have a quiet conversation with Kessel, who it would seem they rightfully are planning to resign.... and I simply ask Phil to make his preference known.... since at the end of the day the issue is really who's better suited to play with Kessel.

Unless LeCavalier signs, which would change the picture in my opinion.
- BorjeFan4Ever

The chemistry thing is BS here... whenever Kessel and Grabo play together, they put up numbers. The problem is the other lines suffer a drop in offense. But now we have Kadri- who also played very well with Kessel- to go with Grabo down the middle, meaning two good offensive threats. And we don't need Grabo playing a shut-down role with Bolland and McClement on the team.

The chemistry thing is BS here... whenever Kessel and Grabo play together, they put up numbers. The problem is the other lines suffer a drop in offense. But now we have Kadri- who also played very well with Kessel- to go with Grabo down the middle, meaning two good offensive threats. And we don't need Grabo playing a shut-down role with Bolland and McClement on the team.
- Feeling Glucky?

Exactly.

The chemistry thing is BS here... whenever Kessel and Grabo play together, they put up numbers. The problem is the other lines suffer a drop in offense. But now we have Kadri- who also played very well with Kessel- to go with Grabo down the middle, meaning two good offensive threats. And we don't need Grabo playing a shut-down role with Bolland and McClement on the team.
- Feeling Glucky?

I hope you're right here.

Who would you play on the first line? kadri or grabbo?

I agree that no one will be giving 5M, nor should they. And while you are certainly entitled to your opinions, I would guess the fan base would be pretty split on how much he does or doesn't contribute.

I don't believe he's a 5M$ player, I don't actually think he's 4M$ player. But I would much rather have Bozak at 4M than Roy, Ribeiro, Booth, Weiss or name one of 20 other guys who are either completely one dimensional or just don't give a damn like Connolly.
- BorjeFan4Ever

I'd say in terms of the UFA list....Bozak is stuck behind

Lecavalier
Iginla
Clarkson
Horton
Briere
Ribeiro
Weiss
Dupuis
Jagr
Elias?
Clowe
Filipulla


I just named a dozen players that would probably command more attention and at least the same amount of money as Bozak. So, with the cap going down 6 mill, teams scrambling with numbers and players still available via trade, how in the f-ucking f-uck is Bozak going to get 5 million with term. PLUS the fact that who even wants Bozak as a 2nd line centre? Winnipeg?

He won't even get 3.5 the way this is going. Starting to remind me of the Dominic Moore situation from a few years ago except we traded Moore and got a 2nd. Moore ended up in Florida for like a million and change

I believe that since Komi has a NMC, there is no requirement to put him on waivers.

You can simply cut him a cheque and bid him adieu.
- Atomic Wedgie

Even better. See what develops over the next day or two then make the call. Have to wonder if Liles gets put on conventional waivers.

A 4 year @$5,500,000 albatross. I don't care if Burke thought he had no other options, you simply cannot give that kind of player that contact because eventually it will come and bite you in the ass, now it is buyout possibility, stupid contact.
- LeafMan

Yup.. the signing was dumb on Burke's part, it was his impatience and ego again. If he had signed Grabbo for 4 at 4.5 the situation would look quite different - and the expectations would be quite different.

The big mistake that lead up to needing to sign Grabbo to that contract was the Connolly disaster - because Burke was disappointed in the Richards sweepstakes and felt slighted. So he picks up a stiff who he Burke turned into the defacto #1 center ... all that did was make Connolly feel entitled. When he clearly was outplayed by Bozak - which he was - the mess was made.

But Nonis has a chance to clean up another Burke mess and at the same time improve his club. And in my opinion - this is the time to do that.

I hope you're right here.

Who would you play on the first line? kadri or grabbo?
- dragus84

That's why we have training camp.

Lupul-K/G-Kessel
JVR-K/G- UFA?
Kulemin-Bolland- UFA/Promotion?(Colborne?)
Hamilton-McClement-Orr

If we don't wind up going after a center, getting 2 good physical wingers could make this team very very good.

I heard that comparison also.

that would be a homerun...not likely.

1986 draft Damphousse, the one year the leafs got something right... imagine the leafs picking the highest scoring player in the draft
- senstroll

I think they didn't do too badly with Wendel either

Yup.. the signing was dumb on Burke's part, it was his impatience and ego again. If he had signed Grabbo for 4 at 4.5 the situation would look quite different - and the expectations would be quite different.

The big mistake that lead up to needing to sign Grabbo to that contract was the Connolly disaster - because Burke was disappointed in the Richards sweepstakes and felt slighted. So he picks up a stiff who he Burke turned into the defacto #1 center ... all that did was make Connolly feel entitled. When he clearly was outplayed by Bozak - which he was - the mess was made.

But Nonis has a chance to clean up another Burke mess and at the same time improve his club. And in my opinion - this is the time to do that.
- BorjeFan4Ever

The issue that Burke ran into was we were in the thick of the playoff race and trading Grabovski for Nashville's 1st (that was the rumoured deal, that 1st ended up going to Buffalo for Paul Gaustad) was sending the wrong message to the fans. The deal Grabo got was essentially what he was going to command on the open market come July with a relatively weak crop of centres available

That's why we have training camp.

Lupul-K/G-Kessel
JVR-K/G- UFA?
Kulemin-Bolland- UFA/Promotion?(Colborne?)
Hamilton-McClement-Orr

If we don't wind up going after a center, getting 2 good physical wingers could make this team very very good.
- Feeling Glucky?

For once, i'd like to see an audition for that top centre spot rather than it entrenched in stone from the start of training camp.

That's why we have training camp.

Lupul-K/G-Kessel
JVR-K/G- UFA?
Kulemin-Bolland- UFA/Promotion?(Colborne?)
Hamilton-McClement-Orr

If we don't wind up going after a center, getting 2 good physical wingers could make this team very very good.
- Feeling Glucky?

I wonder if Mcclement plays wing on the third line and possibly colborne 4th line center

I'd say in terms of the UFA list....Bozak is stuck behind

Lecavalier
Iginla
Clarkson
Horton
Briere
Ribeiro
Weiss
Dupuis
Jagr
Elias?
Clowe
Filipulla


I just named a dozen players that would probably command more attention and at least the same amount of money as Bozak. So, with the cap going down 6 mill, teams scrambling with numbers and players still available via trade, how in the f-ucking f-uck is Bozak going to get 5 million with term. PLUS the fact that who even wants Bozak as a 2nd line centre? Winnipeg?

He won't even get 3.5 the way this is going. Starting to remind me of the Dominic Moore situation from a few years ago except we traded Moore and got a 2nd. Moore ended up in Florida for like a million and change
- t_leafs21

Yup, if Bozak is really holding out for that kind of money - that is exactly what is going to happen. And to add to that.. most of the typically stupid spending teams are CAP maxed already... so that couldn't even if the wanted to.

My bet is Bozak ends up in Calgary or in Detroit.

7.7 for 8 years with a limited NMC

thats my bet.
- Dozzer

For Kessel?

yeah, considering what Perry and Getzlaf got... I can imagine you will need to pay that for Kessel.

... and the Leafs do not have a choice. He is not replaceable except through the draft and a 3-4 year wait.