Perfect Kadri with Kessel
Grabo with JVR and Clarkson crashing the net for rebounds
- jribout

as long as o'byrne is playing d, then we are fine. kessel hasn't been scored on even strength when o'byrne is play d, coincidence? i think not

edit: sorry, make that a lashoff and o'byrne pairing. 0 GA per 20 while playing with kessel. it will be the ultimate shut down pairing guys

Damn, I thought I read 2010 from you. My bad.

From 2011 to 2013 lol

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2011-13&sit=5v5

With Bozak

GF per 20: 0.947
GA per 20: 0.974

Without Bozak

GF per 20: 1.253
GA per 20: 1.097

From 2012 to 2013

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2012-13&sit=5v5

With Bozak

GF per 20: 0.972
GA per 20: 0.907

Without Bozak

GF per 20: 1.397
GA per 20: 0.776

Same results every timeframe.
- daeth

So in career year he scored more without bozak what's worse is this past year his ga got better without bozak.


No way to spin that one.

Daeth, that's the most compelling, logical post in this thread, and if people try to ignore those facts, they're either really stubborn, or incapable.

The myth of Tyler Bozak and Phil Kessel's chemistry indeed!
- mykokes

Indeed.

So in career year he scored more without bozak what's worse is this past year his ga got better without bozak.


No way to spin that one.
- burn

must be because we had o'byrne. guy is a stud defensively when kessel is playing. 0 GA per 20 when both are on the ice

Those are all even strength numbers.

And yeah, the other samples are small.

Kessel from 2012 to 2013

617:29 with Bozak recorded in those stats. 128:48 without.
- daeth

That alone skews the values wouldn't it? Who knows what happens when they'd even out. 1.2s aren't far off from .9s.

must be because we had o'byrne. guy is a stud defensively when kessel is playing. 0 GA per 20 when both are on the ice
- matt1337

Norris! Give that man a raise!

That alone skews the values wouldn't it? Who knows what happens when they'd even out. 1.2s aren't far off from .9s.
- Leafland

It certainly makes the stats less meaningful, but at the same time it's still the best way to tell if Kessel is better with or without Bozak via stats that I know of at the moment without coming up with some crazy formula.

The fact that year to year we're getting similar results helps though.

Norris! Give that man a raise!
- daeth

if they don't resign o'byrne i will start a riot

bahahahah, then I will apologize to HH. But you've put in the work, presented your facts. Best way to check is ask Yost.
- mykokes

CORSI!

must be because we had o'byrne. guy is a stud defensively when kessel is playing. 0 GA per 20 when both are on the ice
- matt1337

Little pissed your cabana boy Bozak's aura has been shown to be fake are we?

That alone skews the values wouldn't it? Who knows what happens when they'd even out. 1.2s aren't far off from .9s.
- Leafland

Who knows.... they could skew the values in favour of making Bozak look better than he really is as well. One would think if Kessel was given more of a chance to play with Grabo or Kadri, that they would get better the more they played together..

Yes sir! Bozak did a decent job but we are better off with Kadri#1, Grabbo#2, Bolland #3
I'm just thinking if kessel made Bozak into a 5 mil a year player, what will he do for Kadri
- coolehmon41

We need to keep Kadri in the two hole and bring in a Lecavelier type player. If we get Kessel a first line center, he might be inclined to re-sign here, next year. Add Lecavalier, add a top 4 defenseman and David Clarkson and we may be in line to win a series or two.

Little pissed your cabana boy Bozak's aura has been shown to be fake are we?
- jribout

i'm all for replacing bozak, just want someone who is also defensively responsible

Who knows.... they could skew the values in favour of making Bozak look better than he really is as well. One would think if Kessel was given more of a chance to play with Grabo or Kadri, that they would get better the more they played together..
- orienbrady22

The problem with the stats I've been posting is we don't know the context of those minutes. Maybe Kessel gets those minutes away from Bozak when he's double shifted and they are easier minutes (ie not vs a shutdown pair) than the minutes he plays with Bozak. The stats don't show that kind of stuff so we can't know for sure. They are pretty darn consistent year to year though.

The problem with the stats I've been posting is we don't know the context of those minutes. Maybe Kessel gets those minutes away from Bozak when he's double shifted and they are easier minutes (ie not vs a shutdown pair) than the minutes he plays with Bozak. The stats don't show that kind of stuff so we can't know for sure. They are pretty darn consistent year to year though.
- daeth

Well, a good chunck of the minutes without Bozak this year, would be when he missed the last two games because of his "upper body injury".

Florida and Montreal. Kessel recorded 3goals and was an even +/-.

The problem with the stats I've been posting is we don't know the context of those minutes. Maybe Kessel gets those minutes away from Bozak when he's double shifted and they are easier minutes (ie not vs a shutdown pair) than the minutes he plays with Bozak. The stats don't show that kind of stuff so we can't know for sure. They are pretty darn consistent year to year though.
- daeth

exactly, and kadri isnt ready to be our #1, and we all know how grabo plays, i dont think him and kessel would mesh well on a line. i'm also not open to putting bolland there (similar to bozak, one could argue he has a greater offensive potential) but we need someone else to replace bozak then those 3

exactly, and kadri isnt ready to be our #1, and we all know how grabo plays, i dont think him and kessel would mesh well on a line. i'm also not open to putting bolland there (similar to bozak, one could argue he has a greater offensive potential) but we need someone else to replace bozak then those 3
- matt1337

Why isnt kadri ready to be a #1 center?

Kessel's on-ice goals for and against avg numbers since 2009 are better without Bozak than they are with him. Bozak's defensive abilities are grossly overrated.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2009-13&sit=5v5

Kessel since 2009 with Bozak (on-ice ES stats)

Goals for per 20 minutes: 0.895
Goals against per 20 minutes: 0.975

Kessel since 2009 without Bozak (on-ice ES stats)

Goals for per 20 minutes: 1.043

Goals against per 20 minutes: 0.977


^^ bump these stats
- daeth

He doesn't get it

i'm all for replacing bozak, just want someone who is also defensively responsible
- matt1337

I'm all for replacing bozak with someone defensive responsible. "Defensively responsible" would be an upgrade.

Why isnt kadri ready to be a #1 center?
- orienbrady22

really? he's only played 1 full season. when carlyle started playing him against teams top line to see if he was capable of a bigger role, his offensive numbers dropped. he isn't good defensively either. he needs more time to develop

I'm all for replacing bozak win someone defensive responsible. "Defensively responsible" would be an upgrade.
- burn

so you are saying bozak isn't defensively responsible?

i'm all for replacing bozak, just want someone who is also defensively responsible
- matt1337

Bolland.

C'mon, we all knew Bozak was a third liner.

We replaced him with Bolland.

Get Clarkson.

Lupul - Kadri - kessel
Jvr - Grabbo - Ckarkson
Kulemin - Bolland - McClement

The wings will make up for the weak centres.

It's doable. Yeah, Malkin and Crosby are better.

But take a look at my lines again.

Does adding Bozak make them any better?

really? he's only played 1 full season. when carlyle started playing him against teams top line to see if he was capable of a bigger role, his offensive numbers dropped. he isn't good defensively either. he needs more time to develop
- matt1337

I cant say I disagree. Im pretty sure I remember Nonis saying that he plans on using bolland in a larger role than what he played on Chicago. Is a larger role the 2C spot? Or just more time on special teams. If its the 2 spot does Kadri become #1 by default?

edit: I guess leafs could just utilize the 3rd line on a larger scale as a whole

really? he's only played 1 full season. when carlyle started playing him against teams top line to see if he was capable of a bigger role, his offensive numbers dropped. he isn't good defensively either. he needs more time to develop
- matt1337

Check game vs Tampa matched up vs stamkos... also check games 6 and 7 of the playoffs....

really? he's only played 1 full season. when carlyle started playing him against teams top line to see if he was capable of a bigger role, his offensive numbers dropped. he isn't good defensively either. he needs more time to develop
- matt1337

How many full seasons did Bozak get before he was our number one?