at what? posting on facebook or whistling Taylor Swift songs.

cause it sure as (frank) isn't at hockey
- Big_Lightnin

Im too lazy to look at the stats, so you can do it yourself. They are comparable tho.

not everyone here sees this
- Big_Lightnin

Surely since Franson is better than Dion, Franson would look great in that number 1 spot going up against Crosby

He was playing 3rd pairing minutes.


(frank). Kostka averaged more minutes than him
- jbold

Kostka played with Phaneuf.... for some reason so he had no choice but to play those minutes even though everyone with a pair of eyes and a brain could see that he was incapable of playing those minutes.

Phaneuf has been around longer then 1 season. Did you forget to bring the other years up or is it such an embarassment for you to even mention that you purposely left them out to further your argument.
- JasonDM

How long do you want to go back?

If you want to look at his career, let's consider his entire career. If you want relevance, let's stick to last season.

Either way, I'm not sure your point holds up.

how so? we never saw him play because of wilson when he was better than majority of our defenders to begin with
- Mapleleafs_91

Wilson didn't like him, but RC is moving him along nicely.

I get you, but kinda think the on-ice pressure is bullpoop as well. To me he just looks like a guy who sincerely doesnt give a poop enough to crack under pressure.
Imo, its the mental fatigue of long nights with no partner.
But hey, I dont know for sure. I cant see inside the guys head, although that'd be quite an adventure. Honestly seems like itd be pretty empty in there. Takes the guy 3 minutes to spit out a full compound sentence.
- UsernameUnknown

I honestly think its the little mental breakdowns and the pressure that is relied on him with the heavy minutes which is why we all look at him when he causes mistakes and having the "C" on him does not help his matter at all, i think being captain is worse because the fans look upon him for answers while he is causing costly mistakes which makes us fans turn against him.

Wilson didn't like him, but RC is moving him along nicely.
- aminnes

wilson is a moron. you could of done a better job

"Share the minutes equally in the 1st and 2nd pairing of defense" less work and pressure on phaneuf.
- Mapleleafs_91

The problem is that typical 2nd pairing guys can't be expected to play the same situations as effectively as top pairing guys.

It's not as simple as taking 60 minutes and dividing them by 3.

how so? we never saw him play because of wilson when he was better than majority of our defenders to begin with
- Mapleleafs_91

franson is a solid 15 year nhl'er.

False.

He averaged about 18 minutes of ice time and about 3 minutes of that was on the first PP unit with Dion.


Meaning even strength, he played about 15 minutes of sheltered minutes.
- jbold

To limit his mistakes. Learning as he goes though but I find him more effective playing less than 20 minutes.

I think it's a bad idea.. Bozak is a homo but he's nearly as good as Stastny. If the Leafs are going to upgrade then they should really upgrade.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I'd rather pay Stastny and his upside $6.6 than Bozak, who I like but wouldn't be on the first line anywhere else that matters, the $5+ he apparently wants.

franson is a solid 15 year nhl'er.
- therealagent

Hows the luongo trade coming along?

wilson is a moron. you could of done a better job
- Mapleleafs_91

I'm happy and satisfied with lesser moronhood.

I'd rather pay Stastny and his upside $6.6 than Bozak, who I like but wouldn't be on the first line anywhere else that matters, the $5+ he apparently wants.
- Phenom

I really want to know what centers are available that are a huge upgrade at center

The problem is that typical 2nd pairing guys can't be expected to play the same situations as effectively as top pairing guys.

It's not as simple as taking 60 minutes and dividing them by 3.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Bam easy math, 20 across the board. Now this is when you build a concrete wall for a goalie!

How long do you want to go back?

If you want to look at his career, let's consider his entire career. If you want relevance, let's stick to last season.

Either way, I'm not sure your point holds up.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Your labeling him as a #1 defenceman, I'm saying he isn't and the stats from the majority of his time in Toronto prove my point and even at points this past season he was proving my point.

Im too lazy to look at the stats, so you can do it yourself. They are comparable tho.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

in Stastny's career worst year against Bozak's career best... sure.

averages? different story.

3 consecutive 20+ goal season.

Stastny would have been PPG playing in Bozak's spot the last 2 seasons.

Surely since Franson is better than Dion, Franson would look great in that number 1 spot going up against Crosby
- jbold

I hope you aren't saying I said that. Dion is our best Dman, no doubt. But for the money he's making it's just not worth it. Do you not agree? Letang is faster, more competative, smarter, (frank)s up less, and has wayyyy cooler hair.

Your labeling him as a #1 defenceman, I'm saying he isn't and the stats from the majority of his time in Toronto prove my point and even at points this past season he was proving my point.
- JasonDM

Surely you must have some to share with us then.

The problem is that typical 2nd pairing guys can't be expected to play the same situations as effectively as top pairing guys.

It's not as simple as taking 60 minutes and dividing them by 3.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Simple, keep him off the PP, the guy can't hit the net for his life most of the time.

To limit his mistakes. Learning as he goes though but I find him more effective playing less than 20 minutes.
- TML4Life85

I find Dion ore effective playing 22 minutes a night instead of 26.



(frank), one game, Dion played 33 minutes against the Rangers.

I hope you aren't saying I said that. Dion is our best Dman, no doubt. But for the money he's making it's just not worth it. Do you not agree? Letang is faster, more competative, smarter, (frank)s up less, and has wayyyy cooler hair.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

By this, I hope you mean getting bailed out by Sid and Gino. I'd take Pha9 over Letang any day even with a 6.5 cap hit.

I hope you aren't saying I said that. Dion is our best Dman, no doubt. But for the money he's making it's just not worth it. Do you not agree? Letang is faster, more competative, smarter, (frank)s up less, and has wayyyy cooler hair.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

No no, not you. The other guy

I honestly think its the little mental breakdowns and the pressure that is relied on him with the heavy minutes which is why we all look at him when he causes mistakes and having the "C" on him does not help his matter at all, i think being captain is worse because the fans look upon him for answers while he is causing costly mistakes which makes us fans turn against him.
- Mapleleafs_91

Fair enough. I can agree with that. The "C" just brings more drama than the thing is actually worth. I think you're right in that the fans automatically put him in a special category as soon as the C is slapped on. Expectations run too high and before you know it, they're asking for his head. Which is right now. Its all a sideshow imo
Not all that important. Give it to Lupul and next year he'll only have a 40pt season, and his head will roll next.

Right now for me its Vin or Bozak, so long as no amazing trade is out there.
- aminnes

If we can somehow sign Vinny or B-Rich (if the NYR buy him out) for a decent price, I have the feeling it could turn out to be a Gilmour-ish type move that will push us into that next level. Either player could become that guy for us immediately.

Agree? Disagree?