Trust me I get what you're saying... You see the patience there with the blues GM? Signing his best offensive Rfa forward to a decent one year deal, when next year there's 6 mil coming off the cap with a certain other defenseman?
- FlyerLifer

There are two sides to a negotiation. The GM doesn't dictate to the player what they'll accept. How do you know that it wasn't the player who only wanted a 1 year deal? More so then patience exercised by the GM?

Trust me I get what you're saying... You see the patience there with the blues GM? Signing his best offensive Rfa forward to a decent one year deal, when next year there's 6 mil coming off the cap with a certain other defenseman?
- FlyerLifer

Yes, I see the patience. Armstrong made a nice deal. But re-signing a RFA and signing a UFA is a different task.

The Flyers have $10mm coming off the cap in Meszaros and Timonen next summer.

So what would your plan be?
A Real world plan..not BS we can trade Rinaldo and Read for Weber..giter done Holmer!
- opeth_pa

After the 2010 finals and you decide to blow up the team for youth... Don't spend $51 million on an older goalie.

I'm not bitter, but you can't say Homer has a plan. He reacts and most of the time it is poorly. Do you need more examples?
- FlyerLifer

Yes I do need more examples. It seems as though there is a belief that if Holmgren makes a move to address an area of the team that needs to be improved, he lacks a plan. As if a plan should be doing nothing. I'd say it's the opposite.

After the 2010 finals and you decide to blow up the team for youth... Don't spend $51 million on an older goalie.
- FlyerLifer

He wasn't that old. And if you feel you need a Goalie, and you have the money, you get who you feel is the best Goalie available. Let's look at all the top Free Agents that Holmgren has acquired. What's his batting average?

I'm not bitter, but you can't say Homer has a plan. He reacts and most of the time it is poorly. Do you need more examples?
- FlyerLifer

I think he has a plan.

It's got a lot to do with cohesion and grooming the youth movement.

Notice how he's been adamant against trading Schenn and Cooter?

Ok, he "reacted" at Bryz. But what was that? That addressed a need. It's easy to put a negative spin on it and call it "reactionary" now because it backfired. Who'duhthunk that would have happened?

Streit isn't a "reaction" either. He gave up next to nothing in an attempt to fill another hole in this team at market value. We'll see how that works out.

Schenn/JVR is a good hockey move. Schenner's been great thus far.

Grossmann wasn't reactionary. He was a rock, and was acquired to- here it is again- fill a need.

After the 2010 finals and you decide to blow up the team for youth... Don't spend $51 million on an older goalie.
- FlyerLifer

If they decided to blow up the team for youth, they would have traded Pronger, Timonen and Briere.

I'll be the first to admit the Flyers "planning" changes too often and that they spend too much time reacting. But despite that, they've had a lot of success.

There are two sides to a negotiation. The GM doesn't dictate to the player what they'll accept. How do you know that it wasn't the player who only wanted a 1 year deal? More so then patience exercised by the GM?
- MJL

Maybe there is some trust with the agent and GM? We have some money coming off the books next year and you live up to your potential, you get paid like a top 3 forward at that point.

Sweet, people don't understand the difference between RFA and UFA.
- Jsaquella

RFA- Really Free Agent

UFA- Undoubtedly Free Agent

After the 2010 finals and you decide to blow up the team for youth... Don't spend $51 million on an older goalie.
- FlyerLifer

Well that goalie was Vezina caliber the season(s) before.

Who's to say, back in 2011, Bryz could play at that level for another 5 or 6 years while the youth movement matured? That's what we paid him to do.

Nothing wrong with that plan, in my opinion. You build from the crease out, after all.

I was referring to Bobrovsky's work with Metallurg Novokuznetsk before he was signed. Not his play this year, without a camp and jumping over only when the lockout occurred.

His Metallurg team was among the worst in the KHL
- Jsaquella

Yes that's true and I'm not saying these guys will go on to be as good as Bobrovsky but granted they chose to come here and granted the conversion to NA hockey went alright I think either one of them could be a great starter in the NHL. They're just 2 examples of some good untapped talent in the KHL.

After the 2010 finals and you decide to blow up the team for youth... Don't spend $51 million on an older goalie.
- FlyerLifer

So you have a complaint and not a plan.

I don't think they blew up their team for youth but rather they didn't think they could win with the team they had...

Big difference between the Hawks winning 2 years ago and I think everyone said "yah that team has a chance to win a few more"

vs

The Flyers getting in on a shootout in the last game of the season...Pulling off a historical comeback and getting a cakewalk of a matchup in the conf finals.

Maybe there is some trust with the agent and GM? We have some money coming off the books next year and you live up to your potential, you get paid like a top 3 forward at that point.
- FlyerLifer

Doubt it was about trust. A contract negotiation is business. It was either the team would not give the player the salary he wanted in a long term deal. Or the player feels if he has a very good Season, he can leverage a bigger deal going into his Free Agent years. So they compromised on a one year deal.

I think he has a plan.

It's got a lot to do with cohesion and grooming the youth movement.

Notice how he's been adamant against trading Schenn and Cooter?

Ok, he "reacted" at Bryz. But what was that? That addressed a need. It's easy to put a negative spin on it and call it "reactionary" now because it backfired. Who'duhthunk that would have happened?

Streit isn't a "reaction" either. He gave up next to nothing in an attempt to fill another hole in this team at market value. We'll see how that works out.

Schenn/JVR is a good hockey move. Schenner's been great thus far.

Grossmann wasn't reactionary. He was a rock, and was acquired to- here it is again- fill a need.
- Giroux_Is_God

I think that Bryzgalov was owner mandated. If Snider hadn't pushed for a goalie, I think there's no way Holmgren survives a $40mm 16 year mistake.

A lot of the other moves, especially on defense have come from the Pronger injury.

As for Streit, I'm sure that the Flyers asked about other, younger defenseman. But the higher costs in assets to obtain them, led the Flyers to make a deal for Streit, surrendering cap room but keeping key assets the team has decided to build around.

After the 2010 finals and you decide to blow up the team for youth... Don't spend $51 million on an older goalie.
- FlyerLifer

dont forget that in 2010 they came within a shootout loss in the final game of the season to even making the playoffs.

and even then they had to make NHL history to somehow get passed the 2nd round.

its not like they were some juggarnaut team.

then they get swept in the 2nd round the next year.
im glad he made those trades and still love the return he got for Richards and Carter.

Yes, I see the patience. Armstrong made a nice deal. But re-signing a RFA and signing a UFA is a different task.

The Flyers have $10mm coming off the cap in Meszaros and Timonen next summer.
- Jsaquella

I don't understand how Doug Armstrong's the greatest thing since sliced bread in signing Patrick Berglund to a one-year bridge deal at $3.25 million but Paul Holmgren's a bad GM for obtaining cost certainty in the deals he made with Wayne Simmonds and Claude Giroux.

The Giroux contract was genius.

But locking up Wayne Simmonds for the next six years at less than $4 million per season, with the cap likely back at $70 million in two years...if Paul Holmgren had done a one or two-year bridge deal with Simmonds, he's looking at paying him $5 million -- or more -- next season.

For anyone who thinks I'm delusional, wait until folks see what David Clarkson and Bryan Bickell get.

I think he has a plan.

It's got a lot to do with cohesion and grooming the youth movement.

Notice how he's been adamant against trading Schenn and Cooter?

Ok, he "reacted" at Bryz. But what was that? That addressed a need. It's easy to put a negative spin on it and call it "reactionary" now because it backfired. Who'duhthunk that would have happened?

Streit isn't a "reaction" either. He gave up next to nothing in an attempt to fill another hole in this team at market value. We'll see how that works out.

Schenn/JVR is a good hockey move. Schenner's been great thus far.

Grossmann wasn't reactionary. He was a rock, and was acquired to- here it is again- fill a need.
- Giroux_Is_God

Schenn for JVR made sense, youth for youth. Strength for weakness, I'm fine with that. Grossmann fits the younger bill, no issues with that at all. I am not on board with streit, I'd rather they just go with what they have. Maybe there'll be a better option next year...

Well that goalie was Vezina caliber the season(s) before.

Who's to say, back in 2011, Bryz could play at that level for another 5 or 6 years while the youth movement matured? That's what we paid him to do.

Nothing wrong with that plan, in my opinion. You build from the crease out, after all.
- Giroux_Is_God

Just didn't work out, so time to move on. And as a fan, no sweat off my back that they have to pay Bryzgalov for not playing. No money on the Cap, no effect on me as a fan.

dont forget that in 2010 they came within a shootout loss in the final game of the season to even making the playoffs.

and even then they had to make NHL history to somehow get passed the 2nd round.

its not like they were some juggarnaut team.

then they get swept in the 2nd round the next year.
im glad he made those trades and still love the return he got for Richards and Carter.
- Crimsoninja

I don't have any issues with those returns either.

I don't understand how Doug Armstrong's the greatest thing since sliced bread in signing Patrick Berglund to a one-year bridge deal at $3.25 million but Paul Holmgren's a bad GM for obtaining cost certainty in the deals he made with Wayne Simmonds and Claude Giroux.

The Giroux contract was genius.

But locking up Wayne Simmonds for the next six years at less than $4 million per season, with the cap likely back at $70 million in two years...if Paul Holmgren had done a one or two-year bridge deal with Simmonds, he's looking at paying him $5 million -- or more -- next season.

For anyone who thinks I'm delusional, wait until folks see what David Clarkson and Bryan Bickell get.
- AllInForFlyers

Well said AIFF

Schenn for JVR made sense, youth for youth. Strength for weakness, I'm fine with that. Grossmann fits the younger bill, no issues with that at all. I am not on board with streit, I'd rather they just go with what they have. Maybe there'll be a better option next year...
- FlyerLifer

With Timonen likely coming off freeing up 6M, along with the Cap likely rising. They can explore other options.

I don't understand how Doug Armstrong's the greatest thing since sliced bread in signing Patrick Berglund to a one-year bridge deal at $3.25 million but Paul Holmgren's a bad GM for obtaining cost certainty in the deals he made with Wayne Simmonds and Claude Giroux.

The Giroux contract was genius.

But locking up Wayne Simmonds for the next six years at less than $4 million per season, with the cap likely back at $70 million in two years...if Paul Holmgren had done a one or two-year bridge deal with Simmonds, he's looking at paying him $5 million -- or more -- next season.

For anyone who thinks I'm delusional, wait until folks see what David Clarkson and Bryan Bickell get.
- AllInForFlyers

I don't recall reading anyone not liking the giroux and Simmonds deals...

Well that goalie was Vezina caliber the season(s) before.

Who's to say, back in 2011, Bryz could play at that level for another 5 or 6 years while the youth movement matured? That's what we paid him to do.

Nothing wrong with that plan, in my opinion. You build from the crease out, after all.
- Giroux_Is_God

Not the flyers

Yes that's true and I'm not saying these guys will go on to be as good as Bobrovsky but granted they chose to come here and granted the conversion to NA hockey went alright I think either one of them could be a great starter in the NHL. They're just 2 examples of some good untapped talent in the KHL.
- JAKEw1234

I'm also not against looking at them...I do believe that the timeframe to sign them has passed for this year, though.

I don't recall reading anyone not liking the giroux and Simmonds deals...
- FlyerLifer

No, but what we read is that there is no plan. That doesn't fly in my opinion. You may not like the plan or agree with it. But there definitely is one.