I think you hope for Dion at $6 milly and Dion at $6.5 milly.
- Atomic Wedgie

paying him twice cause he's the only top pair?

just because phaneuf isn't there wow you guys are really that scared of 1 guy missing yet hate on him so much, ironic
- Mapleleafs_91

I've never said I hated Phaneuf. I defend him more than most, I just think he needs to calm down on the ice and take a pay cut if he can't live up to the 6.5m.

How many games before Bernier demands a trade back to LA?

"I'll sit on the bench... I don't care! Just don't make me go back to that horrible place!"
- Leeman4Gilmour

I like how you guys rely so much on phaneuf and scared that our defense corp will go to poops if he is traded.. its not a one man show. We have 6 defenders, not one defender carrying the load always. This is why phaneuf (frank)s up always, the responsibilities are not distributed well and everything is on him.

not saying you, just bunch of leaf fans in general
- Mapleleafs_91

well lot's of people aren't as smart as me

$5.5 per
- Big_Lightnin

That's my only problem with Dion - he's going to get more than that. Players need to exceed the value of their contract, not fall short of earning it. Dion is paid like a no. 1...yes, he may be, but for the money he's one of the worst value no. 1's in the league. If the whispers are true that he's on the market, it seems even the management of the team is not sold on him as the core of our defence - despite the absolute hissy fits thrown in here when someone so much as questions his value or play.

I like how you guys rely so much on phaneuf and scared that our defense corp will go to poops if he is traded.. its not a one man show. We have 6 defenders, not one defender carrying the load always. This is why phaneuf (frank)s up always, the responsibilities are not distributed well and everything is on him.
- Mapleleafs_91

dude... why do you think he was playing almost 30 mins a night? Cause Carlyle knows NOBODY ELSE is capable of playing against top line players.

Watch any shift Franson played against the Krejci line if you have and doubts of this.

That's my only problem with Dion - he's going to get more than that. Players need to exceed the value of their contract, not fall short of earning it. Dion is paid like a no. 1...yes, he may be, but for the money he's one of the worst value no. 1's in the league. If the whispers are true that he's on the market, it seems even the management of the team is not sold on him as the core of our defence - despite the absolute hissy fits thrown in here when someone so much as questions his value or play.
- fifty__missions

I think Dion is an excellent #2 Dman and if he was being paid 4.5-5m people would hate on him less.

Not anybody. Just Barkov/Lindholm/Drouin/Ristolainen/Monahan/Nurse/Wennberg/Shinkaruk
- AdamFrench

might be getting a bit ahead of yourself there :pmaybe 3-4 of those could become better then gardiner, but a gardiner and the 21st combination, maybe only 1-2 would be better then that combo (Barkov or Drouin)

dude... why do you think he was playing almost 30 mins a night? Cause Carlyle knows NOBODY ELSE is capable of playing against top line players.

Watch any shift Franson played against the Krejci line if you have and doubts of this.
- Big_Lightnin

okay so why have 6 defenders, might as well just play phaneuf since oh i dont know hes an offensively minded defender anyways. Who cares about the more defensive minded ones even though thats THEIR JOB

To be honest franson did the same thing phaneuf did this year with limited minutes less minutes than phaneuf, USED his big body to box out players, had a boom of a shot, played good defensively for the most part, and surprisingly made some hits. Very similar to phaneuf brought to the table just with phaneuf playing more minutes

paying him twice cause he's the only top pair?
- Big_Lightnin

Whoops!

Dion at $6 and Phil at $6.5.

That's my only problem with Dion - he's going to get more than that. Players need to exceed the value of their contract, not fall short of earning it. Dion is paid like a no. 1...yes, he may be, but for the money he's one of the worst value no. 1's in the league. If the whispers are true that he's on the market, it seems even the management of the team is not sold on him as the core of our defence - despite the absolute hissy fits thrown in here when someone so much as questions his value or play.
- fifty__missions

I'm not against trading him, but they better have a good idea how to get another (or ideally 2) top pairing Dman before training camp

This team has no chance at playoffs with the current D corps without Dion.

I like how you guys rely so much on phaneuf and scared that our defense corp will go to poops if he is traded.. its not a one man show. We have 6 defenders, not one defender carrying the load always. This is why phaneuf (frank)s up always, the responsibilities are not distributed well and everything is on him.
- Mapleleafs_91

There is a chart out there that shows various defenseman and how many defensive starts they had coupled with the quality of their opponents.

Phaneuf ranked among the top in defensive zone starts and at the very top in quality of opponents. At 25 minutes per night.

Take that out and you,re going to watch Franson wither like a flower on a hot day. The spotlight will eat these guys up. Beauchemin couldn't handle it and he finished 4th in Norris voting once he left this zoo.

okay so why have 6 defenders, might as well just play phaneuf since oh i dont know hes an offensively minded defender anyways. Who cares about the more defensive minded ones even though thats THEIR JOB
- Mapleleafs_91

Phaneuf is the top shut down AND top offensive D man though.

That's the part you seem to not get. He's the #1PK Dman on the team. By a mile. It isn't even close.

that's the problem.

Gunnarson is barely a #3 let alone a 2. same for Franson. Both solid guys, neither has any business playing top pair.

I'm not against trading him, but they better have a good idea how to get another (or ideally 2) top pairing Dman before training camp

This team has no chance at playoffs with the current D corps without Dion.
- Big_Lightnin

Agreed.

okay so why have 6 defenders, might as well just play phaneuf since oh i dont know hes an offensively minded defender anyways. Who cares about the more defensive minded ones even though thats THEIR JOB

To be honest franson did the same thing phaneuf did this year with limited minutes less minutes than phaneuf, USED his big body to box out players, had a boom of a shot, played good defensively for the most part, and surprisingly made some hits. Very similar to phaneuf brought to the table just with phaneuf playing more minutes
- Mapleleafs_91

Phaneuf led the team last year in PKTOI/G.

He's no slouch on the defensive side.

There is a chart out there that shows various defenseman and how many defensive starts they had coupled with the quality of their opponents.

Phaneuf ranked among the top in defensive zone starts and last the very top in quality of opponents. At 25 minutes per night.

Take that out and you,re going to watch Franson wither like a flower on a hot day. The spotlight will eat these guys up. Beauchemin couldn't handle it and he finished 4th in Norris voting once he left this zoo.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Wilson had a bit to do with that...

That's my only problem with Dion - he's going to get more than that. Players need to exceed the value of their contract, not fall short of earning it. Dion is paid like a no. 1...yes, he may be, but for the money he's one of the worst value no. 1's in the league. If the whispers are true that he's on the market, it seems even the management of the team is not sold on him as the core of our defence - despite the absolute hissy fits thrown in here when someone so much as questions his value or play.
- fifty__missions

he's not on the market, but hes not off it either. no one should really be untouchable on any team to be honest. nonis is saying if the right deal comes along that makes sense, he will do it, but he isn't actively shopping players. dreger even believes lupul or jvr could be moved for the right deal. it all comes down to whether nonis thinks he can win the deal by trading those players. he isn't just going to trade them just to trade them.

without phaneuf, our d would be terrible. guy takes so much blame for no reason. how about we give him someone to can actually play top pairing, not AHL scrubs/d who would be #4 on most other teams. put phaneuf on most other teams and hes still top pairing, put his partner, and they are #4 or worse.

he's not on the market, but hes not off it either. no one should really be untouchable on any team to be honest. nonis is saying if the right deal comes along that makes sense, he will do it, but he isn't actively shopping players. dreger even believes lupul or jvr could be moved for the right deal. it all comes down to whether nonis thinks he can win the deal by trading those players. he isn't just going to trade them just to trade them.

without phaneuf, our d would be terrible. guy takes so much blame for no reason. how about we give him someone to can actually play top pairing, not AHL scrubs/d who would be #4 on most other teams. put phaneuf on most other teams and hes still top pairing, put his partner, and they are #4 or worse.
- matt1337

Both Dreger and Mackenzie made a specific point of mentioning Phaneuf. They heard his name in particular obviously.

he's not on the market, but hes not off it either. no one should really be untouchable on any team to be honest. nonis is saying if the right deal comes along that makes sense, he will do it, but he isn't actively shopping players. dreger even believes lupul or jvr could be moved for the right deal. it all comes down to whether nonis thinks he can win the deal by trading those players. he isn't just going to trade them just to trade them.

without phaneuf, our d would be terrible. guy takes so much blame for no reason. how about we give him someone to can actually play top pairing, not AHL scrubs/d who would be #4 on most other teams. put phaneuf on most other teams and hes still top pairing, put his partner, and they are #4 or worse.
- matt1337

more like 7 or 8 (Kostak or Holzer for half the year)

There is a chart out there that shows various defenseman and how many defensive starts they had coupled with the quality of their opponents.

Phaneuf ranked among the top in defensive zone starts and at the very top in quality of opponents. At 25 minutes per night.

Take that out and you,re going to watch Franson wither like a flower on a hot day. The spotlight will eat these guys up. Beauchemin couldn't handle it and he finished 4th in Norris voting once he left this zoo.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Ask yourself this, if you do NOT give guys like franson or gardiner chances to eat more minutes up, how will you ever know if they can handle it? Same goes with blacker. How will we ever know he is any good if he is never picked or tested to be on the leafs?

Whoops!

Dion at $6 and Phil at $6.5.
- Atomic Wedgie

Phil's agent just has to drop off the top 10 scoring list from the last couple of years, (and hopefully next), highlight a certain name and say "Call me when you're ready to offer 8 years at 7m per.

Both Dreger and Mackenzie made a specific point of mentioning Phaneuf. They heard his name in particular obviously.
- fifty__missions

Could have heard it as in someone else inquiring and Nonis saying "I'll listen"

Wilson had a bit to do with that...
- Big_Lightnin

True, but Phaneuf spent a couple years under Wilson, too. Seemed to hold up okay.

It's a rare thing to find a guy who can play in Toronto in all the worst situations and not fall apart.

Murphy fell apart. McCabe fell apart. Komisarek fell apart. Beauchemin fell apart. Phaneuf is still a capable #1 under the spotlight.

You hang onto that guy.

Phaneuf is the top shut down AND top offensive D man though.

That's the part you seem to not get. He's the #1PK Dman on the team. By a mile. It isn't even close.

that's the problem.

Gunnarson is barely a #3 let alone a 2. same for Franson. Both solid guys, neither has any business playing top pair.
- Big_Lightnin

Phaneuf is an offensive minded defender, but guess what? Thats probably the first thing on his mind instead of defense. To make "the play" happen, to be involved in the play, trailing back on defense i wouldn't say he is the top notch shut down defender. There are several shut down guys who do a better job and put their body on the line more than phaneuf.

Phil's agent just has to drop off the top 10 scoring list from the last couple of years, (and hopefully next), highlight a certain name and say "Call me when you're ready to offer 8 years at 7m per.
- BetterCallSaul

or tell him to look what Tavares did... be like him. Leave money on the table.

Max years at $6-6.5M is a GREAT number for Kessel, and would allow them to make the team better.

still the highest paid forward.