Kimmo Timonen isn't that difficult to compare other small defenseman to. I will admit it's tough to compare players but a kid like Ryan Ellis is small in his own right and has already had a number of successes to his very young Resume. Ryan Ellis doesn't allow his size to be a weakness, much like Kimmo Timonen. Simple statement of fact. A kid like Ryan Ellis at this point should know what's expected of him and may even be looked at as "The guy" one day while he grows into his own as an NHLer. Kimmo Timonen is just a comparison I used for the physical tools Timonen already has today.
- dingo8urbaby

I've just always hated player comparisons. No two players are ever alike. You can compare certain attributes (size, speed, shot), but overall it's impossible. I do like Ellis. He has a canon of a shot. I think it would take a very good young forward to get him.

I'm not condemning reese. I think most coaches are knowledgable. It's more about how much the players wants to get out of it. Bob seems like a guy who wants to be the best. Bryz seems content
- PhillySportsGuy

I wouldn't say you were wrong. Bob's work ethic is through the roof, which is something that can be very hard to teach. One of the reasons I wanted to develop Bob after his rookie (aside from the fact that he put up good numbers) was his determination to get better. I can't attest to what Bryz is thinking (can anyone?) so I don't want to write him off as lazy or something but there are times when his play seems too casual.

and mostly by using their draft picks:

Crawford replaced Niemi
Bickell replaced Byfuglien
Shaw replaced Bolland
Saad replaced Ladd
Leddy replaced Kim Johnsson

Obviously some trades and UFAs worked out well, too. But drafting and developing your own players and using them to replace guys looking for bigger contracts is quite helpful.
- bradleyc4

they still have bolland but otherwise yes

and smart additions like zus

Look at Chicago. Continually replacing their UFAs with young players.

The Flyers finally have some depth in the AHL that can be used to supplement losses of players leaving via free agency. But yes, this needs to continue.
- bradleyc4

Chicago also made excellent choices in identifying and keeping their core together.
I'm sure they would have loved to keep Ladd and maybe the goalie from 2010.

But you are right, they had a good pipeline of AHL talent.

and mostly by using their draft picks:

Crawford replaced Niemi
Bickell replaced Byfuglien
Shaw replaced Bolland
Saad replaced Ladd
Leddy replaced Kim Johnsson

Obviously some trades and UFAs worked out well, too. But drafting and developing your own players and using them to replace guys looking for bigger contracts is quite helpful.
- bradleyc4

Isnt Bolland still there?

EDIT:Leight

they still have bolland but otherwise yes

and smart additions like zus
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I think the most important thing for them is their core remained intact. They have 4 all star forwards and 2 all star defenseman. Not taking away anything from their management. They have done a great job drafting and acquiring talent.

If Patrice Bergeron really dinged his spleen there is no way he could play tonight or Wed.

I wonder what his injury was, maybe a lower rib injury.

I know I'm going to hear about this but, here we go!! I think Luongo will sign for less because he's already making so much on his buy-out. Only think I could think of was doing the "acquire" with 50% retention, meaning his contract with flyers will be for about 2.6 million. rip me up!

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Simon Gagne ($2.225m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Scott Laughton ($1.107m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Jason Akeson ($0.900m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) /
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kevin Shattenkirk ($3.200m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Andrew Ference ($3.000m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.613m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.851m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($2.667m—50.0%)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,679,260; BONUSES: $2,960,000
CAP SPACE (26-man roster): $580,740

we had to, we could take that 3 million from Ference and give another 1.5 to Shattenkirk so St. Louis won't match.

We just have a different view. I think to truly say whether it was desperate or not. You have to remove the results from the equation. At the time of the signing, the Flyers most certainly did not have all the information you're using to evaluate the move after the fact. I try and place myself in the same spot they were in. I don't see it as being desperate.
- MJL

I understand the logic, that it seemed the best option in their situation. But I think they let their perceived need cloud their judgement. They sought him out at, quite literally, all costs. We'll never know if he would've gotten this contract on the open market, but I think what the Flyers gave him would've been where the market topped out. Obviously, the results are factoring in here, and it's not fair to expect Flyers management to know the results ahead of time, but here's really how I see things went down:

-The Flyers were swiftly eliminated from the playoffs in a postseason with very high expectations
-The Bruins, the very same who'd eliminated the Flyers, win the Stanley Cup on the dynamo goaltending of Tim Thomas
-Ed Snider and management identify goaltending as the team's absolute need to be competitive, to the point they're willing to do whatever it takes
-The Flyers identify Ilya Bryzgalov as the best available goaltender, and target him
-The Flyers then got Bryzgalov at all costs, giving up resources to get him early, giving him what had to be every dollar he asked for, and even initiating major changes in the core of the team to make everything fit (not to say Bryz was the only reason for the Richards and Carter trades, and I do like the trades in their own right).

So before looking at results, we see a team that laser focused on one position, and then one player, and paid any and all costs to get him on the roster. For a team with a known 'win now' MO, I don't think it's a stretch to see this as desperate.

Additionally, I think it's fair at this point to consider the results to a degree. It's not so much that I expected management to see the future, but what we have is worth mentioning: an inconsistent goaltender who has only on occasion been a catalyst in keeping the puck out of our net, and a massive commitment of time and money to him.

Not to say I don't accept a difference of view here.

EDIT: Wow, this post was a LOT longer than I thought

If Patrice Bergeron really dinged his spleen there is no way he could play tonight or Wed.

I wonder what his injury was, maybe a lower rib injury.
- Marc D

A line of Jagr-seguin-marchand should still be able to produce offense, but losing Bergerons defense will make line matchups all the more important for Boston.

I know I'm going to hear about this but, here we go!! I think Luongo will sign for less because he's already making so much on his buy-out. Only think I could think of was doing the "acquire" with 50% retention, meaning his contract with flyers will be for about 2.6 million. rip me up!

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Simon Gagne ($2.225m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Scott Laughton ($1.107m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Jason Akeson ($0.900m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) /
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kevin Shattenkirk ($3.200m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Andrew Ference ($3.000m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.613m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.851m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($2.667m—50.0%)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,679,260; BONUSES: $2,960,000
CAP SPACE (26-man roster): $580,740
- flyersfan51

When did we get Shattenkirk for 3.2M?

When did we get Shattenkirk for 3.2M?
- PhillySportsGuy

i just edited it and took ference's money and gave 1.5 to Shattenkirk - you think he's worth 5+? would St. Louis match that?

I know I'm going to hear about this but, here we go!! I think Luongo will sign for less because he's already making so much on his buy-out. Only think I could think of was doing the "acquire" with 50% retention, meaning his contract with flyers will be for about 2.6 million. rip me up!

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Simon Gagne ($2.225m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Scott Laughton ($1.107m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Jason Akeson ($0.900m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) /
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kevin Shattenkirk ($3.200m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Andrew Ference ($3.000m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.613m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.851m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($2.667m—50.0%)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,679,260; BONUSES: $2,960,000
CAP SPACE (26-man roster): $580,740

we had to, we could take that 3 million from Ference and give another 1.5 to Shattenkirk so St. Louis won't match.
- flyersfan51

I think St. Louis would match $3.2m for Shattenkirk in a heart beat.

i just edited it and took ference's money and gave 1.5 to Shattenkirk - you think he's worth 5+? would St. Louis match that?
- flyersfan51

I think they will match everything up until the Flyers would have to compensate with 4 1st rounders. Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo have the making of one of the the best pairings in the NHL for the next 10 years. Look at what Seabrook and Keith do for Chicago.

I think they will match everything up until the Flyers would have to compensate with 4 1st rounders. Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo have the making of one of the the best pairings in the NHL for the next 10 years. Look at what Seabrook and Keith do for Chicago.
- PhillySportsGuy

that's true. grasping at straws here.....

A line of Jagr-seguin-marchand should still be able to produce offense, but losing Bergerons defense will make line matchups all the more important for Boston.
- PhillySportsGuy

I can't see Boston winning two games without Bergeron.
Unless Toews is out two games also.
Even then it wil be very tough.

Bergeron and Krejci are their two key cogs up front,
Chara on D.

When Richards broke Krejci's wrist in 2010
the series turned for the Flyers.

I would love Luongo after a buy out deal.
I think he would have interest from a lot of teams without his albatross contract.

Tim Thomas no way.
Theodore as a stop gap back up for 1-2 years would be better then Timmy.

I can't see Boston winning two games without Bergeron.
Unless Toews is out two games also.
Even then it wil be very tough.

Bergeron and Krejci are their two key cogs up front,
Chara on D.

When Richards broke Krejci's wrist in 2010
the series turned for the Flyers.
- Marc D

Maybe they ride the wave of emotion at home in game 6. Along with favorable match ups. Then Rask can steal game 7. I know it's unlikely but I wouldn't write them off yet. I believe Krejci is more important than bergeron at this point. That line has supplied almost all of their scoring in the playoffs.

Chara will also have to bounce back and have two GREAT games. He hasn't looked like himself the last few games.

I understand the logic, that it seemed the best option in their situation. But I think they let their perceived need cloud their judgement. They sought him out at, quite literally, all costs. We'll never know if he would've gotten this contract on the open market, but I think what the Flyers gave him would've been where the market topped out. Obviously, the results are factoring in here, and it's not fair to expect Flyers management to know the results ahead of time, but here's really how I see things went down:

-The Flyers were swiftly eliminated from the playoffs in a postseason with very high expectations
-The Bruins, the very same who'd eliminated the Flyers, win the Stanley Cup on the dynamo goaltending of Tim Thomas
-Ed Snider and management identify goaltending as the team's absolute need to be competitive, to the point they're willing to do whatever it takes
-The Flyers identify Ilya Bryzgalov as the best available goaltender, and target him
-The Flyers then got Bryzgalov at all costs, giving up resources to get him early, giving him what had to be every dollar he asked for, and even initiating major changes in the core of the team to make everything fit (not to say Bryz was the only reason for the Richards and Carter trades, and I do like the trades in their own right).

So before looking at results, we see a team that laser focused on one position, and then one player, and paid any and all costs to get him on the roster. For a team with a known 'win now' MO, I don't think it's a stretch to see this as desperate.

Additionally, I think it's fair at this point to consider the results to a degree. It's not so much that I expected management to see the future, but what we have is worth mentioning: an inconsistent goaltender who has only on occasion been a catalyst in keeping the puck out of our net, and a massive commitment of time and money to him.

Not to say I don't accept a difference of view here.

EDIT: Wow, this post was a LOT longer than I thought
- BulliesPhan87

I just don't see how addressing a key position on the ice, and a valid weakness on the team. By signing who they felt was the best player available,is desperate. Aggressive, absolutely. But not desperate. If he played to the level that he is capable of playing at, his cap hit is not outrageous. It's the Cap recapture added after the fact that makes it a potentially bad contract. There is always risk when going into the Free Agent market.

I would love Luongo after a buy out deal.
I think he would have interest from a lot of teams without his albatross contract.

Tim Thomas no way.
Theodore as a stop gap back up for 1-2 years would be better then Timmy.
- Marc D

Tim Thomas is a weirdo!

Make sure you bring a bullhorn and use it to heckle any GM that takes time to thank the city of Newark and the Devils for their hospitality.

Repeating over and over, "STFU and make the pick!!" should suffice.
- Jsaquella

LMAO. good one.

I can't see Boston winning two games without Bergeron.
Unless Toews is out two games also.
Even then it wil be very tough.

Bergeron and Krejci are their two key cogs up front,
Chara on D.

When Richards broke Krejci's wrist in 2010
the series turned for the Flyers.
- Marc D

gonna be interesting...

I just don't see how addressing a key position on the ice, and a valid weakness on the team. By signing who they felt was the best player available,is desperate. Aggressive, absolutely. But not desperate. If he played to the level that he is capable of playing at, his cap hit is not outrageous. It's the Cap recapture added after the fact that makes it a potentially bad contract. There is always risk when going into the Free Agent market.
- MJL

I agree that it's not fair to judge them based on the new circumstances, what with the recapture. I won't pretend they should've known the league would come down on frontloaded contracts so harshly (and frankly, I think it's ridiculous to punish teams after the fact for contracts the league approved).

But I still think that laser focusing on one player, and giving him what was at least market value before he ever hit the market, is something desperate. If not for desperation they could've waited for free agency, still pursued Bryzgalov, but made all avenues of improving the position available to themselves. Given what they paid him, I think the chances they were outbid for him are negligible. Of course, that's not fact.

gonna be interesting...
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Considering how much I dislike both teams I am surprised at how much I have enjoyed watching this Finals.

It seems like there has been less embellishment this year, although I could be wrong on this.

I can't see Boston winning two games without Bergeron.
Unless Toews is out two games also.
Even then it wil be very tough.

Bergeron and Krejci are their two key cogs up front,
Chara on D.

When Richards broke Krejci's wrist in 2010
the series turned for the Flyers.
- Marc D

It's been a good final. I like the Hawks and respect what they've done to turn their franchise around, as well as what they've done all season long. However, not big on how cocky like Kane can become during a game. I have a much greater respect for the Bruins who keep their game simple. Great goaltending, sound defense, physical play and hard work in my mind could still get it done.

With this said though, I just want the Cup to be handed out and I just wanna focus on the draft and UFA.