I noticed Kimmo Timonen plenty before coming to Philadelphia. In fact Timonen was up for the Norris on Nashville, so Kimmo Timonen was on the radar and getting plenty of credit before coming here. I've seen a lot of Ryan Ellis too. Live as well.
- dingo8urbaby

I know, but it's difficult to notice the nuances of his game until you see him on a regular basis. Even Lavi was surprised at how good he was.

yet another article that indirectly points out how badly Jeff Reese needs to be replaced
- MrBigglesworth

It's bryz. He's stuck in his ways and won't be taught

Bernier is seen as a future stud by everyone.

But seriosuly, I doubt that Reimer costs as much as the Leafs traded to get Bernier. If they asked for more, I'd say, "If you thought Reimer was so good, why did you trade so much for Bernier?"

I'm not going to pay another team a premium for a guy they traded a significant amount of assets to replace.
- Jsaquella

I know, but the Kings were in a position where they HAD to trade him. The Leafs have no need to trade Reimer. That's why I believe it would take more to get him than Bernier.

"The biggest difference was getting Bobrovksy to play bigger, especially in his butterfly, than he did during his first two NHL seasons with the Flyers. The 24-year-old Russian is finally playing up to his 6-foot-2 frame, a measurement that seemed hard to believe when you watched him hunched over at the waist and sitting back on his heels more during two promising but inconsistent seasons as an undrafted free agent signing in Philadelphia. He’s taller now through the thighs and at the waist, especially in his butterfly, one of several small but significant adjustments that started with Blue Jackets goalie coach Ian Clark. "
- MrBigglesworth

Bobrovsky came to Philly having never played a game on North American sized ice, and ended up playing 54 games and putting up good numbers.

The next season the Flyers had Bryzgalov, which made Bobrovsky the secondary concern for Reese. It wasn't as if Reese didn't do well with Bobrovsky. The kid got a chance to play regularly and be the number one in Columbus.

yet another article that indirectly points out how badly Jeff Reese needs to be replaced
- MrBigglesworth

How exactly does it point that out? Do we know that Reese didn't point out those flaws to Bobrovsky? That Bobrovsky played small in his butterfly was well documented when he was here. Perhaps Bobrovsky was instructed and taught how to correct that. But it took a while for him to do so. And he put it together in Columbus.

I know, but the Kings were in a position where they HAD to trade him. The Leafs have no need to trade Reimer. That's why I believe it would take more to get him than Bernier.
- PhillySportsGuy

Then you move on to plan B. Reimer's a kid that I'd like to acquire, but it's not Reimer or bust.

I know, but the Kings were in a position where they HAD to trade him. The Leafs have no need to trade Reimer. That's why I believe it would take more to get him than Bernier.
- PhillySportsGuy

When I threw out the premise of getting Reimer, it was in the context of someone asking if the Leafs were still in the market for Luongo.

I was more joking that I couldn't believe that the Leafs would hate a guy like Reimer (who I think is not a bad goaltender at all) that much that they sign Luongo after his CBO.

How exactly does it point that out? Do we know that Reese didn't point out those flaws to Bobrovsky? That Bobrovsky played small in his butterfly was well documented when he was here. Perhaps Bobrovsky was instructed and taught how to correct that. But it took a while for him to do so. And he put it together in Columbus.
- MJL

And the same coach in Columbus apparently couldn't fix Steve Mason.

Weird, right?

I know, but it's difficult to notice the nuances of his game until you see him on a regular basis. Even Lavi was surprised at how good he was.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm not sure what you're implying. Kimmo Timonen wasn't kept a secret before coming here. Peter Laviolette wasn't even our Coach when Timonen first got here, John Stevens was.

The Bernier trade really illustrates the value of having viable NHL players on their entry level contracts in the salary cap era.

Obviously Read would have been from a pure hockey standpoint a very fair return for Bernier. But when you factor in LA's cap situation, Read becomes only a one year rental for LA. Much like he may be for the Flyers at this point.

Toronto had 2 decent players who are still on entry level deals.
Frattin could likely fill a second or third line role when LA loses Penner, and they got a decent backup to Quick.

Lombardi did extremely well here, given the real risk of losing Bernier to an offer sheet and only getting draft picks back.

I guess if Bernier turns into a franchise goalie the Leafs have done well also. Time will tell.

Keeping your draft picks and having decent players on their entry level deals is hugely valuable today.

Trading picks for older players and UFAs has to stop for this team.
- Marc D

The Flyers have two very good players on EL deals in Couturier and Schenn.

How exactly does it point that out? Do we know that Reese didn't point out those flaws to Bobrovsky? That Bobrovsky played small in his butterfly was well documented when he was here. Perhaps Bobrovsky was instructed and taught how to correct that. But it took a while for him to do so. And he put it together in Columbus.
- MJL

Making himself smaller in the butterfly was always a problem for Bob when he was here. Everybody from the coaches to the fans knew it. He just wasn't able to fix it here. He may have tuned out Reese after the Flyers acquired Bryz.

What always bothered me about Bryz is that he's played in North America for a while, but never tried to get better at handling the puck. Bob was a terrible puck handler, but in two years he's better than Bryz.

The Bernier trade really illustrates the value of having viable NHL players on their entry level contracts in the salary cap era.

Obviously Read would have been from a pure hockey standpoint a very fair return for Bernier. But when you factor in LA's cap situation, Read becomes only a one year rental for LA. Much like he may be for the Flyers at this point.

Toronto had 2 decent players who are still on entry level deals.
Frattin could likely fill a second or third line role when LA loses Penner, and they got a decent backup to Quick.

Lombardi did extremely well here, given the real risk of losing Bernier to an offer sheet and only getting draft picks back.

I guess if Bernier turns into a franchise goalie the Leafs have done well also. Time will tell.

Keeping your draft picks and having decent players on their entry level deals is hugely valuable today.

Trading picks for older players and UFAs has to stop for this team.
- Marc D

Look at Chicago. Continually replacing their UFAs with young players.

The Flyers finally have some depth in the AHL that can be used to supplement losses of players leaving via free agency. But yes, this needs to continue.

And the same coach in Columbus apparently couldn't fix Steve Mason.

Weird, right?
- johndewar

Different guys respond in different ways. Ian Clark joined the Jackets in the summer of 2011, so he really only worked with Mason for one full season.

I'm not sure what you're implying. Kimmo Timonen wasn't kept a secret before coming here. Peter Laviolette wasn't even our Coach when Timonen first got here, John Stevens was.
- dingo8urbaby

I know. I'm just saying Kimmo Timonen is a difficult player to compare anyone to because he has several intangible qualities.

Bobrovsky came to Philly having never played a game on North American sized ice, and ended up playing 54 games and putting up good numbers.

The next season the Flyers had Bryzgalov, which made Bobrovsky the secondary concern for Reese. It wasn't as if Reese didn't do well with Bobrovsky. The kid got a chance to play regularly and be the number one in Columbus.
- Jsaquella

Reese got Michael Leighton a 3 year, multi-million dollar deal. That is quite an accomplishment.

Look at Chicago. Continually replacing their UFAs with young players.

The Flyers finally have some depth in the AHL that can be used to supplement losses of players leaving via free agency. But yes, this needs to continue.
- bradleyc4

pretty annoying how chicago lost half their team after 2010 but here they are 3 years later back in the finals

Different guys respond in different ways. Ian Clark joined the Jackets in the summer of 2011, so he really only worked with Mason for one full season.
- Jsaquella

That was exactly my point.

Good for Bob for making whatever adjustments he needed to make, but let's not pretend that we know whether or not Reese coached Bob with that same advice because we don't know. A lot has to do with timing and opportunity.

And the Bryz signing made Bob's development almost a moot point anyway.

Different guys respond in different ways. Ian Clark joined the Jackets in the summer of 2011, so he really only worked with Mason for one full season.
- Jsaquella

I think the importance of goalie coaches is highly overrated.

When I threw out the premise of getting Reimer, it was in the context of someone asking if the Leafs were still in the market for Luongo.

I was more joking that I couldn't believe that the Leafs would hate a guy like Reimer (who I think is not a bad goaltender at all) that much that they sign Luongo after his CBO.
- johndewar

I guess I joined the conversation a bit too late. I like Reimer and would be interested in acquring him. I'm just asking why would the Leafs trade him when they don't need to.

I think it's different. So many illogical fans blame the goaltending. Any sane Flyer fan can tell you that the struggles were team wide. Bryz didn't help much, but he was at the bottom of the list of things that need to be fixed IMHO.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree... and if he were a good little solider, kept his mouth shut, and didnt get paid an absurd amount... we wouldnt even be looking for a goalie

Reese got Michael Leighton a 3 year, multi-million dollar deal. That is quite an accomplishment.
- NickTheKid87

I'm not condemning reese. I think most coaches are knowledgable. It's more about how much the players wants to get out of it. Bob seems like a guy who wants to be the best. Bryz seems content

I know. I'm just saying Kimmo Timonen is a difficult player to compare anyone to because he has several intangible qualities.
- PhillySportsGuy

Kimmo Timonen isn't that difficult to compare other small defenseman to. I will admit it's tough to compare players but a kid like Ryan Ellis is small in his own right and has already had a number of successes to his very young Resume. Ryan Ellis doesn't allow his size to be a weakness, much like Kimmo Timonen. Simple statement of fact. A kid like Ryan Ellis at this point should know what's expected of him and may even be looked at as "The guy" one day while he grows into his own as an NHLer. Kimmo Timonen is just a comparison I used for the physical tools Timonen already has today.

pretty annoying how chicago lost half their team after 2010 but here they are 3 years later back in the finals
- Don'tForgetTocchet

and mostly by using their draft picks:

Crawford replaced Niemi
Bickell replaced Byfuglien
Shaw replaced Bolland
Saad replaced Ladd
Leddy replaced Kim Johnsson

Obviously some trades and UFAs worked out well, too. But drafting and developing your own players and using them to replace guys looking for bigger contracts is quite helpful.

The Bernier trade really illustrates the value of having viable NHL players on their entry level contracts in the salary cap era.

Obviously Read would have been from a pure hockey standpoint a very fair return for Bernier. But when you factor in LA's cap situation, Read becomes only a one year rental for LA. Much like he may be for the Flyers at this point.

Toronto had 2 decent players who are still on entry level deals.
Frattin could likely fill a second or third line role when LA loses Penner, and they got a decent backup to Quick.

Lombardi did extremely well here, given the real risk of losing Bernier to an offer sheet and only getting draft picks back.

I guess if Bernier turns into a franchise goalie the Leafs have done well also. Time will tell.

Keeping your draft picks and having decent players on their entry level deals is hugely valuable today.

Trading picks for older players and UFAs has to stop for this team.
- Marc D

The Flyers have two very good players on EL deals in Couturier and Schenn.
- MJL

And those are the two names that come up in every trade proposal with the Flyers.

The two Leaf players I don't think we're considered core players in TO. Unlike Couts and B Schenn who the Flyers are reluctant to trade.
But they were viable NHL role players on entry level deals.
To a Capped out team like LA that increases their value.

To the Flyers credit they didn't move draft picks at the last trading deadline.
But in the past, under different circumstances they have.

I just am saying that the practice of using draft picks in acquiring UFAs and even throwing in picks to get rid of players in salary dump moves needs to be carefully done, or even stopped given the rebuilding needs of the team.