The biggest issue, IMO, was the coaching and how the players on the roster were utilized. Sure Holmgren didn't get ideal players for Laviolette's preferred system, but coach es have to be able to adjust to what they have on their team.

If I'm a football coach, who likes to pass a lot, but my team has Adrian Peterson at RB and Tavaris Jackson at QB, I'm going to run the ball a lot, despite my preference. Same thing goes here.

Bryz did not help much. That's the problem. He's being paid to be a difference maker. He's not being a difference.
- Jsaquella

I agree with you on both. Coaches in all sports are stubborn by nature. They believe that if they continue to plug away with their style, which has worked in the past, they will eventually see better results.

i'm just speculating that these agents are dying to get big new contracts for these buyouts and make a ton more money off of them
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Im not disagreeing. I do think looking at Redden and Gomez they only got one yeat deals. So who knows. Its about to get very exciting though.

The team should analyze it's processes and how it does things and evaluate it. To learn from it. The fans however is a different thing.
- MJL

I'm including the fans and the team in this, because neither seem capable of learning it.

The fans complain because they didn't get Bernier. The Flyers trade assets, albeit minor ones, to sign a guy to a market value deal before the market opens.

Being aggressive is OK, being chronically over-aggressive is another matter.

Do you think now that the Leafs are out of the Luongo sweepstakes that there is a better chance Lu gets bought out? If he is bought out, I'd send Bryz packing and sign him in a New York minute.
- Hextall271

I'd be OK with Luongo, I guess, depending on the price tag.

I would think Toronto would be out of the goaltending market at this point. I mean, do they hate James Reimer THAT much to fully ship him out of town? Maybe they do. I think Reimer would work out fine here, sharing the net with Steve Mason.

You could be right. It might cost some high picks, prospects and current roster players as well. I'm just looking at Ryan Ellis and thinking about what he's accomplished so far. Two memorial Cup Victories. Three World juniors (I can't recall how many he's won) and he's been groomed to be a future leader. He's a small guy but I believe he could be the next Kimmo Timonen or better. He doesn't allow his size to be a disadvantage anymore then Timonen does.
- dingo8urbaby

I wouldn't go that far. It's difficult to compare any player to Timonen because of how tough and cerebral he is. We saw him at age 30 and beyond. I'm sure there were plenty of growing pains early on when he had to adjust to playing bigger players.

I agree with you on both. Coaches in all sports are stubborn by nature. They believe that if they continue to plug away with their style, which has worked in the past, they will eventually see better results.
- PhillySportsGuy

See: Reid, Andrew.

i'm just speculating that these agents are dying to get big new contracts for these buyouts and make a ton more money off of them
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I'm sure the agent will be pushing for 8 years and max money...that's their job.

Who thinks we will buy out Bryz and get Luongo or Miller ?
- MrBigglesworth

Can't see Miller. Sideways step IMHO. LLuongo at the right lenght and price

I think it's different. So many illogical fans blame the goaltending. Any sane Flyer fan can tell you that the struggles were team wide. Bryz didn't help much, but he was at the bottom of the list of things that need to be fixed IMHO.
- PhillySportsGuy

The storylines in each city are different, but I think the pressure is comparable. Two big time markets, two teams with high expectations, and two team that have ongoing questions in the crease. It puts a lot of pressure on the guy filling that position, especially if he comes with his own brand of high expectations.

speaking of goalies, here's a good quick read on bob:

http://ingoalmag.com/news...fd4e-b2eb61b987-195042877
- hammarby31

yet another article that indirectly points out how badly Jeff Reese needs to be replaced

I'd be OK with Luongo, I guess, depending on the price tag.

I would think Toronto would be out of the goaltending market at this point. I mean, do they hate James Reimer THAT much to fully ship him out of town? Maybe they do. I think Reimer would work out fine here, sharing the net with Steve Mason.
- johndewar

I'd be quite content if they could land Reimer for a decent price and roll with him and Mason for a year or two.

Who thinks we will buy out Bryz and get Luongo or Miller ?
- MrBigglesworth

No thanks to Miller.

The storylines in each city are different, but I think the pressure is comparable. Two big time markets, two teams with high expectations, and two team that have ongoing questions in the crease. It puts a lot of pressure on the guy filling that position, especially if he comes with his own brand of high expectations.
- BulliesPhan87

I've never been to a Leafs game in Toronto, but I imagine it's a lot like a Cubs game at Wrigley. A foreboding sense of misery. The fans are waiting for the other shoe to drop.

speaking of goalies, here's a good quick read on bob:

http://ingoalmag.com/news...fd4e-b2eb61b987-195042877
- hammarby31

Not to belittle Bob's accomplishments but he only played 38 games. I don't even know if you could qualify for the Vezina having played less than half of the games in a regular season.

I'd be quite content if they could land Reimer for a decent price and roll with him and Mason for a year or two.
- Jsaquella

I only see them trading him for a fair package if he starts complaining and demands a trade. Otherwise, you'll need to send more for him than Bernier.

yet another article that indirectly points out how badly Jeff Reese needs to be replaced
- MrBigglesworth

Reese has done a good job handling the goalies. The only guy who hasn't shown improvement or exceeded expectations was Bryzgalov, and I blame him more than Reeese.

I've never been to a Leafs game in Toronto, but I imagine it's a lot like a Cubs game at Wrigley. A foreboding sense of misery. The fans are waiting for the other shoe to drop.
- PhillySportsGuy

Up until now, I can see it. They did just make the playoffs, and gave the eventual conference champions a hell of a fight (breakdowns of historical proportions not withstanding). I think there's some hope for them up there.

I do hope that their hopes are shattered moving forward, though.

Reese has done a good job handling the goalies. The only guy who hasn't shown improvement or exceeded expectations was Bryzgalov, and I blame him more than Reeese.
- Jsaquella

"The biggest difference was getting Bobrovksy to play bigger, especially in his butterfly, than he did during his first two NHL seasons with the Flyers. The 24-year-old Russian is finally playing up to his 6-foot-2 frame, a measurement that seemed hard to believe when you watched him hunched over at the waist and sitting back on his heels more during two promising but inconsistent seasons as an undrafted free agent signing in Philadelphia. He’s taller now through the thighs and at the waist, especially in his butterfly, one of several small but significant adjustments that started with Blue Jackets goalie coach Ian Clark. "

I've never been to a Leafs game in Toronto, but I imagine it's a lot like a Cubs game at Wrigley. A foreboding sense of misery. The fans are waiting for the other shoe to drop.
- PhillySportsGuy

I've been to 3 games at Wrigley field and it was pretty laid back.

My impression of Toronto Maple Leafs fans (and most fans of teams based in Canada) are more akin to NFL fans in Northeastern cities, which is to say they are very passionate about their team. If you're a hockey player, you can't hide in TO the way you could is say....LA or Anaheim.

I only see them trading him for a fair package if he starts complaining and demands a trade. Otherwise, you'll need to send more for him than Bernier.
- PhillySportsGuy

Bernier is seen as a future stud by everyone.

But seriosuly, I doubt that Reimer costs as much as the Leafs traded to get Bernier. If they asked for more, I'd say, "If you thought Reimer was so good, why did you trade so much for Bernier?"

I'm not going to pay another team a premium for a guy they traded a significant amount of assets to replace.

I wouldn't go that far. It's difficult to compare any player to Timonen because of how tough and cerebral he is. We saw him at age 30 and beyond. I'm sure there were plenty of growing pains early on when he had to adjust to playing bigger players.
- PhillySportsGuy

I noticed Kimmo Timonen plenty before coming to Philadelphia. In fact Timonen was up for the Norris on Nashville, so Kimmo Timonen was on the radar and getting plenty of credit before coming here. I've seen a lot of Ryan Ellis too. Live as well.

yet another article that indirectly points out how badly Jeff Reese needs to be replaced
- MrBigglesworth

He's the same guy that coached Steve Mason, yes?

Who thinks we will buy out Bryz and get Luongo or Miller ?
- MrBigglesworth

Luongo I can see miller not a chance we would have to trade for him cause hes not gonna be bought out

I think it's desperate, granted I've got the advantage of hindsight. They gave up resources to get exclusive access to the perceived best option on the market. Once they had that exclusive negotiating position, they gave him what was at least top of the market value. And in the end, we're left with a goaltender who I can't say has been a catalyst in improving the goaltending/team defense tandem. It's easy to say now, but it really seems desperate and shortsighted.

On a related note, the Bryzgalov signing taught me that trading for a player's rights earns the team no leverage at the bargaining table.
- BulliesPhan87

We just have a different view. I think to truly say whether it was desperate or not. You have to remove the results from the equation. At the time of the signing, the Flyers most certainly did not have all the information you're using to evaluate the move after the fact. I try and place myself in the same spot they were in. I don't see it as being desperate.

The Bernier trade really illustrates the value of having viable NHL players on their entry level contracts in the salary cap era.

Obviously Read would have been from a pure hockey standpoint a very fair return for Bernier. But when you factor in LA's cap situation, Read becomes only a one year rental for LA. Much like he may be for the Flyers at this point.

Toronto had 2 decent players who are still on entry level deals.
Frattin could likely fill a second or third line role when LA loses Penner, and they got a decent backup to Quick.

Lombardi did extremely well here, given the real risk of losing Bernier to an offer sheet and only getting draft picks back.

I guess if Bernier turns into a franchise goalie the Leafs have done well also. Time will tell.

Keeping your draft picks and having decent players on their entry level deals is hugely valuable today.

Trading picks for older players and UFAs has to stop for this team.