I really get the impression that management does not believe in Reimer whatsoever. It almost felt like at the beginning of the year they were trying their best to make Scrivens the #1. The guy just seems like the Rodney Dangerfield of Toronto.

And Toronto has always been that way. If you aren't a highly touted prospect, you get no respect in Toronto regardless of how well or bad you played. Yet if you are a highly touted prospect and were drafted early, the leafs will give you chance after chance until they give up on you.

it's really strange. I get that Reimer isn't an elite goalie but his numbers were pretty damn good on a pretty weak defensive team. If he can raise his consistency to another level and improve his rebound control, no reason why he can't be the guy.
- Sheppy99

Exactly right. The sad part is, is there are tons of big names that weren't highly touted, heck look at Detroit and Jersey, they always seem to hit the motherload with late picks, Toronto is hype. Hype pushes everything, it overdoes it on so many mediocre guys that had hype out of junior or free agents when many times the Leafs have let good home grown guys fade, get moved and flourish elsewhere. Reimer just keeps proving it and gets zero credit, and don't tell me they grab Bernier because they still believe in Reimer. I'm looking forward to Bernier trying to make saves with Phaneuf standing four feet away from the guy and waving his stick at him, we'll see if he can be top 5 in the League.

I really get the impression that management does not believe in Reimer whatsoever. It almost felt like at the beginning of the year they were trying their best to make Scrivens the #1. The guy just seems like the Rodney Dangerfield of Toronto.

And Toronto has always been that way. If you aren't a highly touted prospect, you get no respect in Toronto regardless of how well or bad you played. Yet if you are a highly touted prospect and were drafted early, the leafs will give you chance after chance until they give up on you.

it's really strange. I get that Reimer isn't an elite goalie but his numbers were pretty damn good on a pretty weak defensive team. If he can raise his consistency to another level and improve his rebound control, no reason why he can't be the guy.
- Sheppy99

If you think about what Toronto has done, they have made a seemingly brilliant move.

From my perspective, they neither have too much or too little Faith in Reimer. What they have done is upped the competition he has to fight for his job and prove he's Toronto's #1 over the course of 82 games, through an undetermined amount of seasons as of yet. If Reimer surpasses one of the Leagues most highly touted up-and-coming Goaltenders on a team that is beginning to become competitive, you likely have an Elite finished product who will play as a number one for the team well into is thirties.

Let's say he becomes that good,and Bernier is still better. You now have a bonafide starter to trade for a huge roster piece. That's better yet in my opinion.

On the other hand, if Bernier becomes the Elite Goalie of the two, you can trade Reimer again for more pieces and Toronto again increases its quality of assets and turns one for a position of need when it's a better price for the franchise, and doesn't drain the farm. Win win.

The unlikeliest of scenarios is both fail miserably. It really is a low risk deal when you think about it. The only real unknown is a 2nd. It could be a star, could be a boom bust. Who knows, but the important thing is Bernier is the undisputed best player of the crop, and has the higher ceiling.

Toronto wins the deal, without it being a landslide or the price seeming too high. Nonis did very well. He's improved the goaltending, and in all likelihood increased the quality of both goaltenders in the long run.

Nonis has stated he isn't finished wheeling and dealing before the draft either. I speculated my thoughts earlier and those seem to be inline with the teams secondary needs.

Clarkson's rights
Volchenkov
Falk
Clutterbuck

Also, on top of that I think we are fairly likely to see one of Stastny, Weiss or Riberio coming to Toronto. I don't see Bozak being here, and a marginal chance of seeing Grabovski traded. Liles, Gunnerson and Mac are likely gone. Don't be surprised to see a handful of prospects going out the door or the Leafs acquiring a late first.

Bernier's been a champion at every level of hockey he's ever played at. He's more talented than Reimer, and with an opportunity, I don't think he has a problem taking the job.

Either way, team is lucky to have both. Unless you handle it like mike gillis, having two quality goaltenders isn't a bad thing.
- joel878

i dont really see anything to base the asssumption the bernier is more talented... Until he plays long stretches of games in a row we wont know what he actually is... Even in Reimers rookie season he played 35 of 37 without faltering... He proved right away he had the endurance to be a starter... Bernier has just played small portions

If you think about what Toronto has done, they have made a seemingly brilliant move.

From my perspective, they neither have too much or too little Faith in Reimer. What they have done is upped the competition he has to fight for his job and prove he's Toronto's #1 over the course of 82 games, through an undetermined amount of seasons as of yet. If Reimer surpasses one of the Leagues most highly touted up-and-coming Goaltenders on a team that is beginning to become competitive, you likely have an Elite finished product who will play as a number one for the team well into is thirties.

Let's say he becomes that good,and Bernier is still better. You now have a bonafide starter to trade for a huge roster piece. That's better yet in my opinion.

On the other hand, if Bernier becomes the Elite Goalie of the two, you can trade Reimer again for more pieces and Toronto again increases its quality of assets and turns one for a position of need when it's a better price for the franchise, and doesn't drain the farm. Win win.

The unlikeliest of scenarios is both fail miserably. It really is a low risk deal when you think about it. The only real unknown is a 2nd. It could be a star, could be a boom bust. Who knows, but the important thing is Bernier is the undisputed best player of the crop, and has the higher ceiling.

Toronto wins the deal, without it being a landslide or the price seeming too high. Nonis did very well. He's improved the goaltending, and in all likelihood increased the quality of both goaltenders in the long run.

Nonis has stated he isn't finished wheeling and dealing before the draft either. I speculated my thoughts earlier and those seem to be inline with the teams secondary needs.

Clarkson's rights
Volchenkov
Falk
Clutterbuck

Also, on top of that I think we are fairly likely to see one of Stastny, Weiss or Riberio coming to Toronto. I don't see Bozak being here, and a marginal chance of seeing Grabovski traded. Liles, Gunnerson and Mac are likely gone. Don't be surprised to see a handful of prospects going out the door or the Leafs acquiring a late first.
- Viktory

But your not really taking into account that both goalies have already shown their displeasure of not being the starter... Reimer at the trade deadline when we were looking into kipper and its literally the reason Bernier asked for the trade in the first place... I can't imagine either of them coming into camp happy about the situation which could just as easily have a negative effect on their development as a positive one

If you think about what Toronto has done, they have made a seemingly brilliant move.

From my perspective, they neither have too much or too little Faith in Reimer. What they have done is upped the competition he has to fight for his job and prove he's Toronto's #1 over the course of 82 games, through an undetermined amount of seasons as of yet. If Reimer surpasses one of the Leagues most highly touted up-and-coming Goaltenders on a team that is beginning to become competitive, you likely have an Elite finished product who will play as a number one for the team well into is thirties.

Let's say he becomes that good,and Bernier is still better. You now have a bonafide starter to trade for a huge roster piece. That's better yet in my opinion.

On the other hand, if Bernier becomes the Elite Goalie of the two, you can trade Reimer again for more pieces and Toronto again increases its quality of assets and turns one for a position of need when it's a better price for the franchise, and doesn't drain the farm. Win win.

The unlikeliest of scenarios is both fail miserably. It really is a low risk deal when you think about it. The only real unknown is a 2nd. It could be a star, could be a boom bust. Who knows, but the important thing is Bernier is the undisputed best player of the crop, and has the higher ceiling.

Toronto wins the deal, without it being a landslide or the price seeming too high. Nonis did very well. He's improved the goaltending, and in all likelihood increased the quality of both goaltenders in the long run.

Nonis has stated he isn't finished wheeling and dealing before the draft either. I speculated my thoughts earlier and those seem to be inline with the teams secondary needs.

Clarkson's rights
Volchenkov
Falk
Clutterbuck

Also, on top of that I think we are fairly likely to see one of Stastny, Weiss or Riberio coming to Toronto. I don't see Bozak being here, and a marginal chance of seeing Grabovski traded. Liles, Gunnerson and Mac are likely gone. Don't be surprised to see a handful of prospects going out the door or the Leafs acquiring a late first.
- Viktory

Where does this idea that Bernier has a higher ceiling come from? Central scouting has been wrong as many times as they've been right. Bernier has to be literally unreal to be better than Reimer, top 5 I'de say, and Reimer is young nowhere near his prime as well as Bernier. If Frattin is a 20 goal guy, Scrivens is a backup for a contender, and you have 2nd round pick, why not parlay that into some help on defense, which is sorely needed? Not hating Bernier at all - and for all intents and purposes I hope it works out - but with that defense in front of him Bernier loses in the first round, same way.

Why wouldn't the Leafs justtrade Bernier for Clarkson'e rights and Volchenkov? Lord knows those old balls need replacing in Jersey's net.

Just curious, but does anyone look at this the way we always speak of here?

We always say that the Leafs should use their muscle to grab all the cards. They have done that here IMO. They now have 2 goaltenders that they could shop that would garner some attention. Reimer's value has never been higher, and Bernier had tons of interest from other teams in our conference. The Leafs just kept him from going to our competition. They are forcing Luongo and Miller to be the alternates or deal with the Leafs.

I think Nonis is planning on making a splash this year, but is going to do so from a position of power.

I believe that Gardiner and Shultz may be reunited either here or in Edmonton, but I think the price will be steeper than Gagne or Bernier. Reimer could be a piece that brings one of their young stars here.

I also believe that Nonis is trying to get in the top 6 for the draft. I would love to see that happen, but I do not see both Phaneuf and Gardiner being moved. I think it would be one or the other. If one trade goes down it could negate the other.

Just curious, but does anyone look at this the way we always speak of here?

We always say that the Leafs should use their muscle to grab all the cards. They have done that here IMO. They now have 2 goaltenders that they could shop that would garner some attention. Reimer's value has never been higher, and Bernier had tons of interest from other teams in our conference. The Leafs just kept him from going to our competition. They are forcing Luongo and Miller to be the alternates or deal with the Leafs.

I think Nonis is planning on making a splash this year, but is going to do so from a position of power.

I believe that Gardiner and Shultz may be reunited either here or in Edmonton, but I think the price will be steeper than Gagne or Bernier. Reimer could be a piece that brings one of their young stars here.

I also believe that Nonis is trying to get in the top 6 for the draft. I would love to see that happen, but I do not see both Phaneuf and Gardiner being moved. I think it would be one or the other. If one trade goes down it could negate the other.
- stevecarpetman

Not a fan trading Reimer period, thats a big gamble moving him and hoping Berniers as good if thats the plan. Shultz for Reimer doesn't seem to make sense to me. Your right in terms of the ability to trade one of and I hope it's Bernier, or Reimer.

I'de like to see Phaneuf traded for one of Edmontons young forwards, Bernier leaving for Clarkson's rights, and shelling out the hage cap space for some defensive help.

Not a fan trading Reimer period, thats a big gamble moving him and hoping Berniers as good if thats the plan. Shultz for Reimer doesn't seem to make sense to me. Your right in terms of the ability to trade one of and I hope it's Bernier, or Reimer.

I'de like to see Phaneuf traded for one of Edmontons young forwards, Bernier leaving for Clarkson's rights, and shelling out the hage cap space for some defensive help.
- aminnes

...That's like taking 4 steps backwards. You get rid of the best defenseman on the team that eats up the most minutes. You trade likely your best Goaltender going into next season for the rights to a player that could be had for cheap. And no one on the FA list (Buyouts considered) is going to replace the minutes and skill lost in Phaneuf.

...That's like taking 4 steps backwards. You get rid of the best defenseman on the team that eats up the most minutes. You trade likely your best Goaltender going into next season for the rights to a player that could be had for cheap. And no one on the FA list (Buyouts considered) is going to replace the minutes and skill lost in Phaneuf.
- Viktory

Some people just want to watch the world burn

Yes good morning.


Hello?

Yes good morning.


Hello?
- robin_steele264

Who's getting traded today?

Bernier's been a champion at every level of hockey he's ever played at. He's more talented than Reimer, and with an opportunity, I don't think he has a problem taking the job.

Either way, team is lucky to have both. Unless you handle it like mike gillis, having two quality goaltenders isn't a bad thing.
- joel878

Every level = QMJHL??

Why wouldn't the Leafs justtrade Bernier for Clarkson'e rights and Volchenkov? Lord knows those old balls need replacing in Jersey's net.
- aminnes

Who's getting traded today?
- robin_steele264

Eberle to Toronto

Not a fan trading Reimer period, thats a big gamble moving him and hoping Berniers as good if thats the plan. Shultz for Reimer doesn't seem to make sense to me. Your right in terms of the ability to trade one of and I hope it's Bernier, or Reimer.

I'de like to see Phaneuf traded for one of Edmontons young forwards, Bernier leaving for Clarkson's rights, and shelling out the hage cap space for some defensive help.
- aminnes

imo, they've got to trade Reimer now. They brought in another goalie of a similar age who they clearly prefer, and paid the assets to get him. They need to trade Reimer, and sign a UFA veteran backup, and simply end any whiff of goaltending controversy which almost always ends badly.

Hate to see Frats go...he was solid imo.

That said, the trade upgrades a position that is still questionable for a position we are already strong in (wing).

Logical trade...

Hate to see Frats go...he was solid imo.

That said, the trade upgrades a position that is still questionable for a position we are already strong in (wing).

Logical trade...
- Pen15

Its not a lot to give up at this point. Matt Frattin is a nice player, but come on now. He is 25 years old, drafted 6 years ago and has 82 NHL games (28 points). Some people are talking like they gave up a top NHL player. It may end up being Scrivens thats the more valuable piece going to LA.

I dont like the 2nd round pick going with them, but at least the leafs have some control over the pick.

Hate to see Frats go...he was solid imo.

That said, the trade upgrades a position that is still questionable for a position we are already strong in (wing).

Logical trade...
- Pen15

How did we upgrade the wing???

How did we upgrade the wing???
- burn

he said they upgraded a position thats questionable (Goalie)

How did we upgrade the wing???
- burn

read.

Its not a lot to give up at this point. Matt Frattin is a nice player, but come on now. He is 25 years old, drafted 6 years ago and has 82 NHL games (28 points). Some people are talking like they gave up a top NHL player. It may end up being Scrivens thats the more valuable piece going to LA.

I dont like the 2nd round pick going with them, but at least the leafs have some control over the pick.
- senstroll

Agreed. And if Bernier plays even close to his potential this whole conversation is moot.

read.
- Pen15

Missed "for".... read it as 'upgraded a position we are strong in (wing)'

True.

The more I think about it, the more I like having Bernier and can see why Nonis doesn't envision Reimer being the future.

if you look around the league, the best goalies make the position look easy and are very tidy around the net. Rask, Price (when he's on his game) come to mind. Lunquist etc.

They are very efficient with their movements and make saves look effortless. As much as I love Reimer and respect his numbers, I don't ever get that feeling watching him play. Every shot seems like an adventure and that can definitely put extra stress on the defense.

From the games I've seen Bernier play, he seems to have the potential to develop into one of those type of goalies that make the position look easy.
- Sheppy99

Bingo. It seems like Reimer struggles to make every save. He'll be a very good back up for the leafs.