Doesn't have the shot to be a top PP QB. Has the passing skills. He continues to be one of the top producing defenseman in the entire NHL at ES. In fact he excels at ES play.
- MJL

Especially when shielded and playing with a formidable defensive partner, I.e. a Pronger or Grossman.

Doesn't have the shot to be a top PP QB. Has the passing skills. He continues to be one of the top producing defenseman in the entire NHL at ES. In fact he excels at ES play.
- MJL

And this year the Flyers were terrible at ES play

RYAN PULOCK!!! Unless Restoliem is there. But take the best guy. I think Ryan P. is ready to be NHL soon and can QB the PP. At 6'1 211 he already has the body. Reports say his skating may not be the fastest but can make up with it with Hockey IQ. Restoliem seems to be the total package but his numbers offensively aren't like Pulock's. I doubt Nurse slips. I'm still not sure about him though, and we don't need his uncle around trying to tell the Flyers what to do.
- bushhunter

Restoliem.

And this year the Flyers were terrible at ES play
- eayost

And excellent on the PP

Especially when shielded and playing with a formidable defensive partner, I.e. a Pronger or Grossman.
- GirouxForTheShow

It takes two players who are complimentary to each other to form a solid pairing. I would disagree with the shielded part.

He isnt even on the team yet Mr. Softee continues to be a hot topic.

He isnt even on the team yet Mr. Softee continues to be a hot topic.


- flyer_nutter

Soft defenseman normally get signed to top Free Agent contracts.

Soft defenseman normally get signed to top Free Agent contracts.
- MJL

Wade Redden agrees with you.

Wade Redden agrees with you.
- flyer_nutter

Wade Redden level of play may have dropped off. But calling him soft is also inaccurate. You don't reach the level of play that he did earlier in his career if you're a soft player.

Wade Redden level of play may have dropped off. But calling him soft is also inaccurate. You don't reach the level of play that he did earlier in his career if you're a soft player.
- MJL

Why not? Some consider Jay Bouwmeester soft.

And excellent on the PP
- GirouxForTheShow

I think one of the biggest things for that to me is an issue I saw creep up a little too often.

Over relying on skill, and the fancy plays.

Regading even strength play, I think the biggest thing for the team will be to ensure that forwards actually back-check and focus more on their coverages. This team needs to cut down on the goals they let in first and foremost, and it starts with the forwards.

As for offense, I think having a more mobile D will really aid in that, as well as giving the team a point presence, which was really lacking at times. I do agree with Holmgren on the need to get bigger in the forward ranks, they lost too many battles in the trenches.

Why not? Some consider Jay Bouwmeester soft.
- dingo8urbaby

Some may, doesn't mean they're right.

Why not? Some consider Jay Bouwmeester soft.
- dingo8urbaby

NHL players are gods dingo. How dare you?

To make Wade Redden or Matt Carle anything other than soft you'd need a pez full of viagra.

Simply not true. He is an absolute top 4 NHL defenseman. Carle actually had better numbers without Pronger then with Pronger. It is a myth that Pronger made Carle. They complimented each other well to make a very highly effective pairing.
- MJL

It's an interesting debate. If Carle had lesser numbers with Pronger and better with Pronger gone, then wouldn't Pronger be doing most the work be true?

It's an interesting debate. If Carle had lesser numbers with Pronger and better with Pronger gone, then wouldn't Pronger doing most the work be true?
- dingo8urbaby

No it wouldn't be. Not sure how you come to that conclusion.

It takes two players who are complimentary to each other to form a solid pairing. I would disagree with the shielded part.
- MJL

I'm sorry, but he was shielded here, and in Tampa Bay.

In Tampa Bay last season, Matt Carle's percentage of offensive zone starts were:
2012-2013: 48.2

Compare that with Luke Schenn's offensive zone starts:
2012-2013: 45.8

Braydon Coburn's:
2012-2013: 40.5 (WOW WOW WOW. No wonder he struggled -- he was starting damn near every shift at even-strength against Top 6 forwards in his defensive zone.)

Nicklas Grossmann:
2012-2013: 43.5 (That's painful, too)

Those metrics matter -- again, they don't tell the whole story. But Matt Carle should've been more productive at even strength -- he was starting a lot of his shifts in offensively-favorable situations.

What do you think his numbers would've looked like starting like Braydon Coburn or Luke Schenn had to? Those are horrifically tough minutes, man!

NHL players are gods dingo. How dare you?

To make Wade Redden or Matt Carle anything other than soft you'd need a pez full of viagra.
- flyer_nutter

Mmmmm. Pez viagra. Mmmmmmm...

It's an interesting debate. If Carle had lesser numbers with Pronger and better with Pronger gone, then wouldn't Pronger be doing most the work be true?
- dingo8urbaby

There is only person person here driving this whole Carle hard on.

The guy was sent out on his ass because he wanted too much money for what he is. A soft D-man, who is decent in his own end, decent passer but cant shoot the puck to save his life.

Mediocre.

Matt (frank)ing Carle? We are still debating this hard on for him? Really?

I'm sorry, but he was shielded here, and in Tampa Bay.

In Tampa Bay last season, Matt Carle's percentage of offensive zone starts were:
2012-2013: 48.2

Compare that with Luke Schenn's offensive zone starts:
2012-2013: 45.8

Braydon Coburn's:
2012-2013: 40.5 (WOW WOW WOW. No wonder he struggled -- he was starting damn near every shift at even-strength against Top 6 forwards in his defensive zone.)

Nicklas Grossmann:
2012-2013: 43.5 (That's painful, too)

Those metrics matter -- again, they don't tell the whole story. But Matt Carle should've been more productive at even strength -- he was starting a lot of his shifts in offensively-favorable situations.

What do you think his numbers would've looked like starting like Braydon Coburn or Luke Schenn had to? Those are horrifically tough minutes, man!
- AllInForFlyers

That's not shielded. That's using a player correctly to take advantage of the strengths of his game. Coburn and Schenn are bigger, more physical stay at home defenseman. They are the players who should be getting those minutes. Matt Carle is a puck moving offensive defenseman. He should be getting more starts in the Offensive zone.

That 2% difference between Carle in TB and Schenn here, is huge!


So the question really is, play Grossmann, Coburn and Luke Schenn in the same situations as Carle is played in. Do you think they'd be as productive? We saw last Season how that worked out.

I think its time we settle this once and for all.

W...T...F does soft mean? Because it seems my definition and others definitions are not the same.

It seems to me that if a guy does not run people through the wall, and fight, they get labeled soft. And in my opinion that is just idiotic.

I guess by their definition Nik Lidstrom is soft. Kimmo is soft. Eric Dejardins was soft.

Give me a break.

I'm sorry, but he was shielded here, and in Tampa Bay.

In Tampa Bay last season, Matt Carle's percentage of offensive zone starts were:
2012-2013: 48.2

Compare that with Luke Schenn's offensive zone starts:
2012-2013: 45.8

Braydon Coburn's:
2012-2013: 40.5 (WOW WOW WOW. No wonder he struggled -- he was starting damn near every shift at even-strength against Top 6 forwards in his defensive zone.)

Nicklas Grossmann:
2012-2013: 43.5 (That's painful, too)

Those metrics matter -- again, they don't tell the whole story. But Matt Carle should've been more productive at even strength -- he was starting a lot of his shifts in offensively-favorable situations.

What do you think his numbers would've looked like starting like Braydon Coburn or Luke Schenn had to? Those are horrifically tough minutes, man!
- AllInForFlyers

He falls right in line with the other saints that have recently played for this team and done no wrong. Randy Jones, Jody Shelley, Ilya Bryzgalov and my favourite was Nodl.

Familiar day on HB.

There is only person person here driving this whole Carle hard on.

The guy was sent out on his ass because he wanted too much money for what he is. A soft D-man, who is decent in his own end, decent passer but cant shoot the puck to save his life.

Mediocre.

Matt (frank)ing Carle? We are still debating this hard on for him? Really?
- flyer_nutter

I did not bring up the subject of Matt Carle. You can look back through the thread and see who did. Nobody is forced to take part in any conversation on here. And the facts point out that Carle is clearly better then mediocre. And I'd be glad to discuss that with you.

I think its time we settle this once and for all.

W...T...F does soft mean? Because it seems my definition and others definitions are not the same.

It seems to me that if a guy does not run people through the wall, and fight, they get labeled soft. And in my opinion that is just idiotic.

I guess by their definition Nik Lidstrom is soft. Kimmo is soft. Eric Dejardins was soft.

Give me a break.
- MBFlyerfan

To compare Matt Carle and "soft" to a player like Lindstrom, Timonen and Desjardins is kind of insulting to the latter 3 imo.

I'll do it this way. With the current Flyer D core, who is soft? Probably Streit and Guss.

It shouldnt even matter what the hell the definition of soft is. It comes down to people needing to prove their penis size and that "their definition is correct".

If someone finds Matt Carle to be an iron man. Thats cool. Dont try to force those views on others, because frankly many people dont believe that, or need to "debate" about it.

I think its time we settle this once and for all.

W...T...F does soft mean? Because it seems my definition and others definitions are not the same.

It seems to me that if a guy does not run people through the wall, and fight, they get labeled soft. And in my opinion that is just idiotic.

I guess by their definition Nik Lidstrom is soft. Kimmo is soft. Eric Dejardins was soft.

Give me a break.
- MBFlyerfan

That's not shielded. That's using a player correctly to take advantage of the strengths of his game. Coburn and Schenn are bigger, more physical stay at home defenseman. They are the players who should be getting those minutes. Matt Carle is a puck moving offensive defenseman. He should be getting more starts in the Offensive zone.

That 2% difference between Carle in TB and Schenn here, is huge!

- MJL

But that was my original point: You don't need Mark Streit to play those hard minutes, because now the Flyers have Luke Schenn.

Yes, they can, and should, hide Mark Streit at 5v5. That's good coaching. What the Flyers were missing last year was someone with Streit's skillset who could be hidden in the defensive zone yet kill it on the offensive side.