He's no fossil either. I wouldn't mind keeping him around for his abilities in a defensive capacity and his skating. Is Streit's skating any good? Grossmann and Timonen aren't exactly greased lightning. Schenn's not exactly a speedster either (though I think his lack of speed was overstated significantly).
- BulliesPhan87

footspeed lacking back there. another reason to keep coby.

I think you may be mistaken on that front.
- MBFlyerfan

Sounds like you like him too, but I remember some peops on here saying he was a #2 D-man at best and was a liability on his own end. Had injury concerns too I believe.

He is better than anything the Flyers have.

Edler can play no doubt about it.
- stveshdy

only concern is his back

Sounds like you like him too, but I remember some peops on here saying he was a #2 D-man at best and was a liability on his own end.
- flyerfan28

Edler is the exact player the Flyers need on the blueline.

footspeed lacking back there. another reason to keep coby.
- isaiah520

I actually really don't mind the make up of our blueline right now. They have to trim some fat, but assuming the old guys can stay healthy enough this top six should work better than last season's.

only concern is his back
- isaiah520

2011- 82 games
2012- 45 games (shorten season)

He's played 75+ games in every year but one (Not counting rookie year).

hah, looks like the pending ufa status of read helped put the kibosh on any deal.
- isaiah520

Frattin (RFA) and Scrivens (UFA) are in the same boat, but neither one is as versatile as Read, nor will they garner as much attention (or money) next summer.

LA won't be trying to out-bid too many teams for those two.

goalie. miller? maybe he's too old for the fly guys. Bob?

2011- 82 games
2012- 45 games (shorten season)

He's played 75+ games in every year but one (Not counting rookie year).
- stveshdy

still an issue for me. could be degenerative, but he's obvi playing thru it. skating takes such a toll.

I actually really don't mind the make up of our blueline right now. They have to trim some fat, but assuming the old guys can stay healthy enough this top six should work better than last season's.
- BulliesPhan87

big assumption based on past exp. lots of potholes again, wouldn't mind having a solid #7 we could trust.

If it wasn't for the cap, they would have definitely resigned Carle, because they would have been able to pay him market value. Jagr too, because to OS money was tied up and they basically had to tell him to wait.
- jmatchett383

The Flyers could have easily resigned Carle during the Season, instead of Coburn. They made a choice. They made Carle wait because they wanted to go after bigger fish in Suter, then Weber. Carle decided not to get left out and took TB's offer. The Flyers did not lose Carle because of the Cap. The Flyers did not want to pay Jagr what he wanted. That again was a choice. The offers they made to Suter, Parise, and Weber tells you that they could've afforded both Jagr and Carle Cap wise.

Frattin (RFA) and Scrivens (UFA) are in the same boat, but neither one is as versatile as Read, nor will they garner as much attention (or money) next summer.

LA won't be trying to out-bid too many teams for those two.
- tangent_man

RFAs a little different, but i see your point. between mitchell's $$ coming off the books and a likely cap hike, it makes me think the flyers wanted to hang on to their 2nd pick as well...either way, bygones and while i like bernier, read's a heck of a value for us.

Yandle, Edler, Shattenkirk, McDonagh, etc.

They all are going to cost you something. Rather do that for a younger defenseman than pay big money for an older UFA defenseman.
- stveshdy

Any of those guys cost us Couts or BSchenn. Tough call, I'd prefer to keep our assets, sign a vet like Scuderi, and let Gus, Ghost, and whomever we draft at #11 develop.

Sounds like you like him too, but I remember some peops on here saying he was a #2 D-man at best and was a liability on his own end. Had injury concerns too I believe.
- flyerfan28

I don't think he is a true #1, but he would probably be the #1 guy here. And his injury history does concern me a little. I still like him in the right deal.

I've touched on this before, but I really do feel that Mark Streit's addition really does do a couple of things for the Flyers that are more important for how we are constructed than is being credit for.

When Matt Carle left, he was playing Top 4 minutes. And while Matt Carle was almost always in the lineup -- which matters -- and was good at certain aspects of defense, particularly blocking shots, I would argue that his biggest failing is that at even strength, particularly against better teams, Carle was really a third-pairing defenseman -- again, not an awful player. Like everyone, he had strengths and weaknesses.

But when you played Matt Carle for 22-plus minutes a night against Top 6 players, well...we know what happens.

But when JVR got flipped for Luke Schenn, that reconfigured the defense. You don't HAVE to play Mark Streit in the Top 4. You really don't have to, and you won't lose anything because of it. Good coaching next season, good matching, should be easily accomplished where for the Flyers, a lot Mark Streit's weaknesses should be easier to hide, while his strengths should be a very real asset.

Just for instance:
Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Streit-Meszaros (more likely, someone else)
Gustafsson

See what you have there?

Luke Schenn proved one thing last year: He is not a liability in the Top 4, defensively. And he can play big minutes.

If you give Timonen-Schenn and Coburn-Grossmann the majority of the defensive zone starts against Top 6 forwards, based on rotation, the Flyers should be fine.

Where Mark Streit matters is in neutral-zone starts and offensive zone starts, especially against other teams' second, third and fourth lines. For what he does well, and likely will for the majority of his contract -- and for what he'll likely bring to the PP -- that guy should be really effective for the Flyers.

I think if we see Mark Streit properly for 18 minutes a game, we'll get all the offensive production the Islanders got and minimize some of the defensive worries that he'll have.

"Stacking," matching lines and d-pairs...that's coaching. That stuff matters.

The Flyers don't need Mark Streit on the ice, 5v5, against Malkin and Crosby and Rick Nash and Ilya Kovalchuk. Or on the PK or in the last minute of the game.

We need Mark Streit to kill it off of neutral-zone starts, offensive-zone starts and on breakouts when he's retrieving the puck in the defensive zone, not starting in it.

I know the Flyers know this. That stuff is basic. And I really do think that the acquisition of Mark Streit will pay more dividends than some might realize.

I've touched on this before, but I really do feel that Mark Streit's addition really does do a couple of things for the Flyers that are more important for how we are constructed than is being credit for.

When Matt Carle left, he was playing Top 4 minutes. And while Matt Carle was almost always in the lineup -- which matters -- and was good at certain aspects of defense, particularly blocking shots, I would argue that his biggest failing is that at even strength, particularly against better teams, Carle was really a third-pairing defenseman -- again, not an awful player. Like everyone, he had strengths and weaknesses.

But when you played Matt Carle for 22-plus minutes a night against Top 6 players, well...we know what happens.

But when JVR got flipped for Luke Schenn, that reconfigured the defense. You don't HAVE to play Mark Streit in the Top 4. You really don't have to, and you won't lose anything because of it. Good coaching next season, good matching, should be easily accomplished where for the Flyers, a lot Mark Streit's weaknesses should be easier to hide, while his strengths should be a very real asset.

Just for instance:
Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Streit-Meszaros (more likely, someone else)
Gustafsson

See what you have there?

Luke Schenn proved one thing last year: He is not a liability in the Top 4, defensively. And he can play big minutes.

If you give Timonen-Schenn and Coburn-Grossmann the majority of the defensive zone starts against Top 6 forwards, based on rotation, the Flyers should be fine.

Where Mark Streit matters is in neutral-zone starts and offensive zone starts, especially against other teams' second, third and fourth lines. For what he does well, and likely will for the majority of his contract -- and for what he'll likely bring to the PP -- that guy should be really effective for the Flyers.

I think if we see Mark Streit properly for 18 minutes a game, we'll get all the offensive production the Islanders got and minimize some of the defensive worries that he'll have.

"Stacking," matching lines and d-pairs...that's coaching. That stuff matters.

The Flyers don't need Mark Streit on the ice, 5v5, against Malkin and Crosby and Rick Nash and Ilya Kovalchuk. Or on the PK or in the last minute of the game.

We need Mark Streit to kill it off of neutral-zone starts, offensive-zone starts and on breakouts when he's retrieving the puck in the defensive zone, not starting in it.

I know the Flyers know this. That stuff is basic. And I really do think that the acquisition of Mark Streit will pay more dividends than some might realize.
- AllInForFlyers

I completely disagree about Matt Carle.

I completely disagree about Matt Carle.
- MBFlyerfan

I'm sorry, but Matt Carle against Top 6 forwards...that's why San Jose traded him in the first place. It's not that he's a bad player. But he is miscast as a Top 4 defenseman -- Chris Pronger covered up a lot of Matt Carle's weaknesses.

I'd have to look at it down in Tampa Bay, but I'd bet money that Matt Carle's defensive-zone starts are not what you'd think they are.

I've touched on this before, but I really do feel that Mark Streit's addition really does do a couple of things for the Flyers that are more important for how we are constructed than is being credit for.

When Matt Carle left, he was playing Top 4 minutes. And while Matt Carle was almost always in the lineup -- which matters -- and was good at certain aspects of defense, particularly blocking shots, I would argue that his biggest failing is that at even strength, particularly against better teams, Carle was really a third-pairing defenseman -- again, not an awful player. Like everyone, he had strengths and weaknesses.

But when you played Matt Carle for 22-plus minutes a night against Top 6 players, well...we know what happens.

But when JVR got flipped for Luke Schenn, that reconfigured the defense. You don't HAVE to play Mark Streit in the Top 4. You really don't have to, and you won't lose anything because of it. Good coaching next season, good matching, should be easily accomplished where for the Flyers, a lot Mark Streit's weaknesses should be easier to hide, while his strengths should be a very real asset.

Just for instance:
Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Streit-Meszaros (more likely, someone else)
Gustafsson

See what you have there?

Luke Schenn proved one thing last year: He is not a liability in the Top 4, defensively. And he can play big minutes.

If you give Timonen-Schenn and Coburn-Grossmann the majority of the defensive zone starts against Top 6 forwards, based on rotation, the Flyers should be fine.

Where Mark Streit matters is in neutral-zone starts and offensive zone starts, especially against other teams' second, third and fourth lines. For what he does well, and likely will for the majority of his contract -- and for what he'll likely bring to the PP -- that guy should be really effective for the Flyers.

I think if we see Mark Streit properly for 18 minutes a game, we'll get all the offensive production the Islanders got and minimize some of the defensive worries that he'll have.

"Stacking," matching lines and d-pairs...that's coaching. That stuff matters.

The Flyers don't need Mark Streit on the ice, 5v5, against Malkin and Crosby and Rick Nash and Ilya Kovalchuk. Or on the PK or in the last minute of the game.

We need Mark Streit to kill it off of neutral-zone starts, offensive-zone starts and on breakouts when he's retrieving the puck in the defensive zone, not starting in it.

I know the Flyers know this. That stuff is basic. And I really do think that the acquisition of Mark Streit will pay more dividends than some might realize.
- AllInForFlyers

Actually it's the opposite. One of Matt Carle's biggest strengths was at Even strength. He was here, and continues to be one of the top producing defenseman at Even Strength in the entire NHL. Including leading the entire NHL in even strength points for defenseman in 10/11. A Season he also led all players in the NHL in plus games. Matt Carle is a very strong player at ES.

But your points on Streit are dead on.

I would be sick if Buff is coming to the Flyers. The class of Briere being bought out for money's sake and then bringing in a player who has NO respect for himself/team/game (as demonstrated by his conditioning)...would be a complete insult.
- wbon22

Briere did what last season? he was THE WORST forward defensively. He looked completely lost. He was by far the biggest disappointment last season. Why pay him that contract for the amount of effort being put out? We shouldn't keep him just because of his playoff performances. (Even though he was out for more goals against than for). As for Buff, think what you want, he is still a solid player.

I'm sorry, but Matt Carle against Top 6 forwards...that's why San Jose traded him in the first place. It's not that he's a bad player. But he is miscast as a Top 4 defenseman -- Chris Pronger covered up a lot of Matt Carle's weaknesses.

I'd have to look at it down in Tampa Bay, but I'd bet money that Matt Carle's defensive-zone starts are not what you'd think they are.
- AllInForFlyers

Simply not true. He is an absolute top 4 NHL defenseman. Carle actually had better numbers without Pronger then with Pronger. It is a myth that Pronger made Carle. They complimented each other well to make a very highly effective pairing.

I completely disagree about Matt Carle.
- MBFlyerfan

Carle wasn't great defensively, he was prone to getting turned around and losing his man in the d zone. He was fairly physical and has decent size. He has great puck moving skills, 5v5 I think he was stronger than the PP. On the PP he wasn't a huge threat cause small girls have harder shots. Sure he could pass but if you're not a threat to shoot than its moot point and a huge advantage to the PKers. Like most Top 4 defenseman that are relied on to move the puck, he had his fair share of horrid turnovers.

What if the Flyers asked TB to trade Coburn for Carle... would they accept?

What if the Flyers asked TB to trade Coburn for Carle... would they accept?
- Feanor

I'd say no.

I'd say no.
- MJL

I would, too, but you're right about him at ES. He was fourth equal in the league this year for ES point scoring by defensemen.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...s&viewName=scoringLeaders

On the PP he was 52nd overall.

I would, too, but you're right about him at ES. He was fourth equal in the league this year for ES point scoring by defensemen.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...s&viewName=scoringLeaders

On the PP he was 52nd overall.
- Feanor

Doesn't have the shot to be a top PP QB. Has the passing skills. He continues to be one of the top producing defenseman in the entire NHL at ES. In fact he excels at ES play.