Guys...

I have been Jonathan Bernier this whole time.
- Tee-Dot

Yeah. We know.

I love how sarcastic and rude you are when your points are bizarre. Did you just try to tell me that because of stats and shots per game face that Scivens is someone in the same class as Bernier? Dude just because a guy has never had a shot doesnt mean he doesnt deserve one. He is vastly more talented any goalie the Leafs have had since Belfour. He is so talented that theres a very good chance he becomes a franchise player.
- Timmy_Bee

No, I told you it's not a huge downgrade in terms of a backup goalie especially when you have Quick. And a team in LA's position, the addition of a backup goalie who can do the same thing as Bernier, the addition of a # 4 d-man in Gunnarson to solidify their d, and the addition of a guy like Frattin to an anemic 3rd line is worth unloading their goalie. Simply look at the trade deadline....a guy of Gunnarson's ilk would land a 2nd and another asset without a second thought, Scrivens would likely be a 2nd or 3rd. Frattin would be at least a 3rd. LA doesn't have such assets to play around with, coupled with the fact that any compensation they get for Bernier signing elsewhere won't help them now.....the Kings window to win as many cups as they can is now. The NHL isn't fantasy hockey, contending teams are trying to win the cup, not stockpile assets and futures.

Idk if it was a miracle when all the leafs had to literally do to win that game was sacrifice no one blocked a shot no one dove in dis-pare no one looked like they gave a poop at the time they stood there and didn't move. That game really made me think that they lost on purpose and Boston just had a free ride to the cup "win" because of politics. I'm not one for conspiracy theory crap but it does feel fishy.
- jake24242

I'm just relieved I was working that night and didn't witness the collapse.

If there's one thing I have learned from my work, raw talent is just the tip of the iceberg. If you don't bust ass and out-work everyone else, you're dead in the water.

Bernier has more talent, but Reimer's work the last couple of years means that he deserves the chance to try and take it to the next level. If he was 31/32 years old I'd be with you 110%, but he's only 24 and only gonna get better. Plus he costs no assets
- lumlums

Ok, I hear you and those are valid reasons logically argued. Here is why I disagree with you though, respectully.

1) Reimer does deserve a chance, but this is the NHL and feelings don't matter.
2) If you have the chance to get a guy who is potentially as good as Bernier could be, you do it because on the off chance it works out, youre an instant contender.
3) Riemer has only been decent. Its not like he's an incumbant Vezina contender. He's done good and I like him, but if youre running the Leafs you need to be looking for a Roy/Lunquivst style allstar hall of fame goalie. Riemer will never , ever be that. Bernier might.
4) Whos proven what is total BS> Riemer never had to defend his job vs someone who was any good. He has always been the best option of a weak team, As for Bernier, he lost his job to a guy who had one of the best all time seasons a goalie has ever had. Ever. So yeah, not really his fault.

Yeah trolls are usually literate people using logic and reason. Its pretty stupid that anyone with a different opinion is just told to leave and stop talking.
- Timmy_Bee

Calm down
Never told you to leave or stop talking.

It'd just be cool if you could settle down and start supporting your crazy claims.
I require evidence before I start taking claims seriously.
Have an opinion, by all means. But dont count it as fact.

I would love for you to prove Bernier is 10X more talented than Reimer. It is an opinion because there are no "facts" to support your claim. A scouts concensus is not a fact.
- UsernameUnknown

You aware that a consensus means that all scouts - that is, every single person paid to watch professional hockey and give their opinions - believe that Bernier is a potential star and that Riemer has pretty much maxed out? A consensus is everyone.

So yeah, technically, not a fact. But here is a fact: Any random hockey fan who thinks their opinion is worth anything in the face of what scouts say is hilaroius.

I would love for you to prove Bernier is 10X more talented than Reimer. It is an opinion because there are no "facts" to support your claim. A scouts concensus is not a fact.
- UsernameUnknown

Love to know the scouts he knows, the ones that my guys talk to have been critical of Bernier's size for a number of years. They think he can be a good goalie, but they also think Reimer is a good goalie.

Alas I really don't know Joe Jackson... I'm an '83 kid so he was a little before my time.

Mind you, so was Zeppelin/Maiden and I still have pretty much every album...

EDIT: Holy (frank) he's from where I spent my childhood (after age 7)!
- lumlums

I saw him live in Winnipeg back in the 80's. I'm a big fan.

Ok, I hear you and those are valid reasons logically argued. Here is why I disagree with you though, respectully.

1) Reimer does deserve a chance, but this is the NHL and feelings don't matter.
2) If you have the chance to get a guy who is potentially as good as Bernier could be, you do it because on the off chance it works out, youre an instant contender.
3) Riemer has only been decent. Its not like he's an incumbant Vezina contender. He's done good and I like him, but if youre running the Leafs you need to be looking for a Roy/Lunquivst style allstar hall of fame goalie. Riemer will never , ever be that. Bernier might.
4) Whos proven what is total BS> Riemer never had to defend his job vs someone who was any good. He has always been the best option of a weak team, As for Bernier, he lost his job to a guy who had one of the best all time seasons a goalie has ever had. Ever. So yeah, not really his fault.
- Timmy_Bee

I believe that Reimer has been more than decent, but again, only my opinion. I came to Canada in the fall of 2004, and quickly fell in love with hockey/the Buds soon after, so this is the first time I've seen a goalie worth his paycheck line up for the Blue and White.

Personally, I'd love Bernier on the Leafs. I just want the price to be reflective of what he is, which is mainly just potential. Almost endless potential, but potential nonetheless. A price similar to Bishop/Lindback is appropriate.

Yeah trolls are usually literate people using logic and reason. Its pretty stupid that anyone with a different opinion is just told to leave and stop talking.
- Timmy_Bee

All you've said is scouts say, which I'd love to know which scouts you're conversing with. I've used numbers to back my points up, but if you really want to go the scouts route, feel free to provide quotes that say Bernier is 10x more talented than Reimer. What I've heard is that Reimer is pretty solid at squaring up against the shooter and has a great ability to take away the bottom part of the net. His weakness is the top portion of the net. But to most of them he has proven he is a #1 goalie. Is he a championship goalie? Obviously not, but like Bernier, who knows how his game will improve or how he will evolve.

I saw him live in Winnipeg back in the 80's. I'm a big fan.
- TML60

Nice! I'm always a fan of a good live show. Can't wait til Maiden come back to Edmonton so that I can see those crazy bastards

Raycroft was fine till he blew his groin out in that game against Boston. After that, he sucked the big one. i remember it clearly, we're up 4-1, and the media hacks covering the game are talking about it looking like Boston made a mistake giving Raycroft up, and he was playing unreal in that game. Then he goes down in flames, from that point on he stunk.

http://scores.espn.go.com...hl/recap?gameId=261109001
- mykokes

I can't forget Toskala's 200 footer.

You aware that a consensus means that all scouts - that is, every single person paid to watch professional hockey and give their opinions - believe that Bernier is a potential star and that Riemer has pretty much maxed out? A consensus is everyone.

So yeah, technically, not a fact. But here is a fact: Any random hockey fan who thinks their opinion is worth anything in the face of what scouts say is hilaroius.
- Timmy_Bee

A concensus is everyone's input. Not everyone's unanimous opinion.
Also, what you're basically saying is that Bernier is better than reimer because scouts say he is potentially better. Thats not a proven fact.
And I have not heard once that reimer is "maxed out" and I would love for you to prove that to me as well.
Bernier is good, I get it. But saying he's a teams franchise player based on "could be's" and "should be's" is too much for me.

Ok, I hear you and those are valid reasons logically argued. Here is why I disagree with you though, respectully.

1) Reimer does deserve a chance, but this is the NHL and feelings don't matter.
2) If you have the chance to get a guy who is potentially as good as Bernier could be, you do it because on the off chance it works out, youre an instant contender.
3) Riemer has only been decent. Its not like he's an incumbant Vezina contender. He's done good and I like him, but if youre running the Leafs you need to be looking for a Roy/Lunquivst style allstar hall of fame goalie. Riemer will never , ever be that. Bernier might.
4) Whos proven what is total BS> Riemer never had to defend his job vs someone who was any good. He has always been the best option of a weak team, As for Bernier, he lost his job to a guy who had one of the best all time seasons a goalie has ever had. Ever. So yeah, not really his fault.
- Timmy_Bee

How do you figure that one can be and the other can't? they're practically the same age, and Reimer has put up better career numbers on a pooptier team, I'm not talking just wins and losses.

I can't forget Toskala's 200 footer.
- TML60

You aware that a consensus means that all scouts - that is, every single person paid to watch professional hockey and give their opinions - believe that Bernier is a potential star and that Riemer has pretty much maxed out? A consensus is everyone.

So yeah, technically, not a fact. But here is a fact: Any random hockey fan who thinks their opinion is worth anything in the face of what scouts say is hilaroius.
- Timmy_Bee

Woah, name one scout who has said that?

Nice! I'm always a fan of a good live show. Can't wait til Maiden come back to Edmonton so that I can see those crazy bastards
- lumlums

I saw Men At Work, Billy Joel, Nazareth, Bruce Cockburn and Chris Deburgh back then too. Passed up a chance to see AC/DC and regretted it ever since.

I saw Men At Work, Billy Joel, Nazareth, Bruce Cockburn and Chris Deburgh back then too. Passed up a chance to see AC/DC and regretted it ever since.
- TML60

Personally I can't believe that you can say Bruce Cockburn but not R.A Richardey...

And Chris Deburgh? BARF!

- lumlums

Pretty much the worst goal ever. All he had to do was block it with his chest or stay on his feet and keep his pads closed. He tried to make a glove save. OMG!!!
Brutal.

Personally I can't believe that you can say Bruce Cockburn but not R.A Richardey...

And Chris Deburgh? BARF!
- lumlums

Meh. My buddy gave me a free ticket.

Meh. My buddy gave me a free ticket.
- TML60

You paid too much

You paid too much
- lumlums

Pretty much the worst goal ever. All he had to do was block it with his chest or stay on his feet and keep his pads closed. He tried to make a glove save. OMG!!!
Brutal.
- TML60

That's pretty much the worst thing I've ever seen on the ice.

I include the Boston Meltdown in that

That's pretty much the worst thing I've ever seen on the ice.

I include the Boston Meltdown in that
- lumlums

How can there possibly be anything worse? He will live forever in infamy.

How can there possibly be anything worse? He will live forever in infamy.
- TML60

People harp on about the kessel trade, but for me the Rask/Raycroft and Toskala trades will always be worse...

Thank you JFJ...