Then keep the pick. Need some top tier new blood in the minors.
- jstross

To me it's quite likely all but one of Nurse, Zadorov, Pulock and Ristolainen should be available at 11. By that point I dont think the forwards are even close in value.

To me it's quite likely all but one of Nurse, Zadorov, Pulock and Ristolainen should be available at 11. By that point I dont think the forwards are even close in value.
- hereticpride

If that's the case I wouldn't even trade up except maybe the 41st pick. I'd take any of those 4 at 11.

That was a good read. I do think a lot is made of his +/-, but that's such a flawed stat. Coburn bounces back, he and Streit are a nice, solid second pair. Streit will never be confused for Rod Langway, or even Kimmo Timonen. But he can be an adequate defensive guy
- Jsaquella

I like the idea of Coburn with Streit because Coburn skates like the wind. Its an interesting dynamic there. They are both good skaters, Coburn being excellent in my opinion. Coburn can concentrate more on his defensive game and be the "support" guy of the pair. This is the role he seems most comfortable in.

They will be a good mobile pair.

If that's the case I wouldn't even trade up except maybe the 41st pick. I'd take any of those 4 at 11.
- jstross

I agree. I've been pushing hard for the Flyers to move Mesz, the 41st and maybe even a later pick for 28th overall from Calgary. Free's up caproom and gets another strong prospect in the system.

+/- is a very telling stat. You do have to make adjustments, but it's a great starting point. Give me a team with every player a plus every game and you go undefeated.
- jstross

Yes, it's a good team stat, but it's a very flawed individual stat. Paul Coffey was a horrible defensive player. He finished a +294 in his career. Meanwhile Dave Babych, who was a very solid defenseman, ended up a -223 over his, spent mostly with far less talented teams than Coffey did.

I like the idea of Coburn with Streit because Coburn skates like the wind. Its an interesting dynamic there. They are both good skaters, Coburn being excellent in my opinion. Coburn can concentrate more on his defensive game and be the "support" guy of the pair. This is the role he seems most comfortable in.

They will be a good mobile pair.
- MBFlyerfan

All Coburn has to do is be solid defensively in that pair. Don't blow position, stay in tow and don't exceed his capabilities.

Giroux scored at an 81 point pace last year. And was tied for 6th in the entire League in assists. And that's on a team that struggled to score at ES.
- MJL

That's not such a ringing endorsement of Giroux per se. He was outside the Top 60 in goals last season. And assists are dependent upon teammates finishing the play. Also, there's no distinction between first and second assist. And Giroux was definitely part of the reason the team struggled to score at even strength.

Hopefully he snaps out of the funk that plagued him and the team this past season.

That's not such a ringing endorsement of Giroux per se. He was outside the Top 60 in goals last season. And assists are dependent upon teammates finishing the play. Also, there's no distinction between first and second assist. And Giroux was definitely part of the reason the team struggled to score at even strength.

Hopefully he snaps out of the funk that plagued him and the team this past season.
- wolfhounds

The biggest issue that the offense faced last year was the horrible transition game. It really put the Flyers out of sorts, and they wasted far too much effort trying to get the puck up the ice, and ended up a lot of times dumping and chasing when they had very little chance of retrieving the puck.

Yes, it's a good team stat, but it's a very flawed individual stat. Paul Coffey was a horrible defensive player. He finished a +294 in his career. Meanwhile Dave Babych, who was a very solid defenseman, ended up a -223 over his, spent mostly with far less talented teams than Coffey did.
- Jsaquella

context is always very important. Baseball has gotten very good at adjusting stats for leagues, ballparks, defense... No clue if hockey stats go that deep.

Yes, it's a good team stat, but it's a very flawed individual stat. Paul Coffey was a horrible defensive player. He finished a +294 in his career. Meanwhile Dave Babych, who was a very solid defenseman, ended up a -223 over his, spent mostly with far less talented teams than Coffey did.
- Jsaquella

its certainly a flawed stat but as one defensemen told me - "bottom line - a good plus/minus means a lot of good things happen while you're on the ice". Its not the end all be all but its not meaningless either.

context is always very important. Baseball has gotten very good at adjusting stats for leagues, ballparks, defense... No clue if hockey stats go that deep.
- jstross

Yes, hockey has very deep and growing statistical community. sites like www.behindthenet.ca and http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/index.php provide far more in insight than a stat that depends heavily on the performance of 4 other skaters and a goalie.

its certainly a flawed stat but as one defensemen told me - "bottom line - a good plus/minus means a lot of good things happen while you're on the ice". Its not the end all be all but its not meaningless either.
- moylander

No, not meaningless...but still flawed.

The biggest issue that the offense faced last year was the horrible transition game. It really put the Flyers out of sorts, and they wasted far too much effort trying to get the puck up the ice, and ended up a lot of times dumping and chasing when they had very little chance of retrieving the puck.
- Jsaquella

I agree. But we were tied for 2nd most PP goals, 9th in goals per game, and 9th in total goals. So for G to be so far out of the top is an indicator of something. Bad year? Perhaps. Or he doesn't perform well under the focus of top defenders? Or he needs a certain type of talent on his line to perform at a top level?

In no way am I bashing G's potential, but with all the talk about his upcoming contract, he's going to have to do a bit more before I see him as one of the elite players in the league.

This upcoming season is going to be a real good test for G, Homer, Lavy, and the team direction as a whole.

Yes, hockey has very deep and growing statistical community. sites like www.behindthenet.ca and http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/index.php provide far more in insight than a stat that depends heavily on the performance of 4 other skaters and a goalie.
- Jsaquella

I will check those out, thanks.

The biggest issue that the offense faced last year was the horrible transition game. It really put the Flyers out of sorts, and they wasted far too much effort trying to get the puck up the ice, and ended up a lot of times dumping and chasing when they had very little chance of retrieving the puck.
- Jsaquella

This has been a bugaboo for some time...dumping and chasing, then trying to battle against big D men to win back posession (or you have a Brodeur who plays it back up the ice)...like an exercise in futility...personally, I don't even like dumping it in to do a line change...surely there must be a better way...I mean, give it to the goalie or something...turning it over is the best possible option, really?

But I digress...the forwards need to support the puck in the defensive zone and the skilled guys need to carry it into the zone more often, get a little more creative with some passes and plays rather than dump...a player like Streit can help things out with his ability to push the play up the ice, putting the opposition on their heels and opening things up. Pronger had a rather unique way of gaining the zone, with his uncanny knack for getting a shot on goal from center ice (and sometimes further)...what a smart play...promotes rebounds or perhaps some chaos or maybe the goalie stops it for an offensive zone faceoff...so much better than the conventional dump and chase.

I agree. But we were tied for 2nd most PP goals, 9th in goals per game, and 9th in total goals. So for G to be so far out of the top is an indicator of something. Bad year? Perhaps. Or he doesn't perform well under the focus of top defenders? Or he needs a certain type of talent on his line to perform at a top level?

In no way am I bashing G's potential, but with all the talk about his upcoming contract, he's going to have to do a bit more before I see him as one of the elite players in the league.

This upcoming season is going to be a real good test for G, Homer, Lavy, and the team direction as a whole.
- wolfhounds

Well, it speaks to the larger issue-that the Flyers offense was bad without the power play. At 5 on 5 they didn't generate chances or goals, again, in large part because their transitional game was garbage.

I have had enough of the BS salary cap. It was never us who had to say good bye to our favourite players for financial reasons. I really hope he retires after the buy out. It'll break my heart to see him wear another sweater. He, Pronger, Lappy, Kimo, they'll all be part of Flyers lore. Mike and Jeff who?

This has been a bugaboo for some time...dumping and chasing, then trying to battle against big D men to win back posession (or you have a Brodeur who plays it back up the ice)...like an exercise in futility...personally, I don't even like dumping it in to do a line change...surely there must be a better way...I mean, give it to the goalie or something...turning it over is the best possible option, really?

But I digress...the forwards need to support the puck in the defensive zone and the skilled guys need to carry it into the zone more often, get a little more creative with some passes and plays rather than dump...a player like Streit can help things out with his ability to push the play up the ice, putting the opposition on their heels and opening things up. Pronger had a rather unique way of gaining the zone, with his uncanny knack for getting a shot on goal from center ice (and sometimes further)...what a smart play...promotes rebounds or perhaps some chaos or maybe the goalie stops it for an offensive zone faceoff...so much better than the conventional dump and chase.
- exlund

Agreed wholeheartedly. The stats show that teams that have better possession tend to be better teams, because obviously, the less the other team has the puck, the less opportunity they have to score.

Now, of course there are exceptions that prove the rule...for example, Minnesota was a poor possession team, while New Jersey was a very good possession team. Which is why one must watch games as well as look at the stats.

Well, it speaks to the larger issue-that the Flyers offense was bad without the power play. At 5 on 5 they didn't generate chances or goals, again, in large part because their transitional game was garbage.
- Jsaquella

They were horrid 5v5. Can't be denied. But they still ended up with the 9th highest goal total, 3 away from the Islanders at #7.

Still, there's reason to believe we'll be much better 5v5 and just as potent on the PP this coming season.

Agreed wholeheartedly. The stats show that teams that have better possession tend to be better teams, because obviously, the less the other team has the puck, the less opportunity they have to score.

Now, of course there are exceptions that prove the rule...for example, Minnesota was a poor possession team, while New Jersey was a very good possession team. Which is why one must watch games as well as look at the stats.
- Jsaquella

My biggest problem was even when it was obvious they had no chance to retrieve the puck after a dump, they would STILL send three guys in.....MADDENING.

My biggest problem was even when it was obvious they had no chance to retrieve the puck after a dump, they would STILL send three guys in.....MADDENING.
- MBFlyerfan

yup

Reflections OR an indictment...

Reflections OR an indictment...
- isaiah520

Cobb is misleading, he makes no mention of the fact the cap was artificially reduced. You cant indict the team for cap management issues without putting it in context. Cobb fails miserably in this regard.

All those guys mentioned above, lappy especially, gave everything they had in that run in '10 to get a cup. Everyone always talks about putting it in another gear for the playoffs, but those four were red-lining it from the first game of the new jersey series to game 6 of the finals.
Nobody should forget those four. Sadly, everyone will remember all the off ice stuff and other garbage that era brought.
- the deaninator

I love Lappy. As a kid I was always a fan of Roy so because of that I followed the Avs, so when Lappy signed with the Flyers I was giddy like a little school girl because I knew what he was going to bring to the team.

I know he was with the Flyers for such a short period but if I found out that they were going to retire his number tomorrow I would have no issue with it. He gave the Flyers more in one season than a lot of players do in a career.

I love Lappy. As a kid I was always a fan of Roy so because of that I followed the Avs, so when Lappy signed with the Flyers I was giddy like a little school girl because I knew what he was going to bring to the team.

I know he was with the Flyers for such a short period but if I found out that they were going to retire his number tomorrow I would have no issue with it. He gave the Flyers more in one season than a lot of players do in a career.
- Roytastic

Speaking of the Avs I think it's painfully obvious Sakic and Roy are trying to re-create the Lindros trade with Seth Jones. Look how well that overpayment worked out for their franchise in the 90's.