With this franchise, it's easier to find a unicorn than a Bernier.
- dilbert719

We traded away the unicorn to CBJ last summer.

But seriously, do you really think you'll get B.Ryan AND Hiller (a established goaltender) for only Read and Meszaros? That's absurd Read is not worth Bernier either.
- Orpik44

I love Read. But...
Ryan > Read
Hiller >> Meszaros

Anaheim would either hang up immediately or laugh nonstop.

I'd rather just keep him and see what happens. They're already a little thin on the wing.

But if they were to use him to upgrade the defense significantly, I wouldn't complain.

I just think the cost to acquire a decent goaltender isn't all that much.
- bradleyc4

In current landscape of FA, a team will always overpay for a player. The Flyers need to figure out what Read is asking for (or see what MacArthur gets as you have mentioned before) and see if that fits into their plans. If not deal from a postition of strength and deal him re-stocking the cupboard with young talent. Having a long term plan & consistent contributions from the farm system is the only way to have long term sustainablity in the league. Unfortunately, the Flyers don't do this very well.

I would contend that it is way easier to find another read than to find a Bernier, even just based off of 60 games.
- nails

Ironic thing is that Read actually has less of a pro track record than Bernier by a long shot. And... there's no shortage of NHL forwards that started their careers with a bang but faded into obscurity, so it's not like Read's a sure thing moving forward either.

Read's trade value might never be higher, while there's still some perceived upside there.

Consistency isnt referred to statistics. I havent done that at all... because statistics would argue that Ryan is consistent. He will come in and score 30 goals a year. His play on the ice is what I was referring to. He is a strictly offensive forward... who has big peaks and big valleys in his on ice play. Voracek is coming off of an enormous year. Much bigger than Ryans (especially in the two way game, where it really isnt even a competiton). Hartnell is coming off of a bad year that I give him a pass for. He was banged up, and didnt start to come around until the lock out shortened season was winding down. I understand that 3-4 years from now he may not be the player he is today, but thats not todays problem. There isnt a single GM in the game that will replace a player because he may not be the same player 3-4 years from now. Its just not logical.

In keeping with the consistency, STATISTICALLY Hartnell is a lock to score anywhere from 20-35 goals any given season. Voracek (who I think will stay par for the course this season) should put up 25-30 goals this year. This "need" for Bobby Ryan is not only ridiculous, but totally unrealistic. We dont need him.

My point with Streit was that we didnt need to give up roster players to get him.
- jak521

Hartnell isn't a lock to score 20-35 goals a season (Which is a large margin I might add). He's had a down season as a Flyer where he scored 14 goals. Do I think that will happen again, to your credit, no I do not. Jake Voracek is coming off a career season but it was his 5th season in the NHL and now we're gonna expect a repeat. Of course like anyone else, I hope he does it but he does have to do it again.

I'm really having a hard time understanding your argument. Your against Bobby Ryan's 30 goals a season (More of a guarantee then Hartnell's possible 20-35) because he doesn't play well defensively but we're very close to signing a 5.25 million dollar deal for 4 years with a defenseman that doesn't play well defensively. In fact Danny Briere was a 6 million dollar center/winger that didn't play well defensively and I could argue we all adored him.

My Opinions:

1. Goalies. Bernier would be a nice addition, but I would not give up more then Read and a 2nd. Anything more and I turn to FA, not a trade for Halak or Hiller unless they are very cheap.

2. Ryan. Bill is right. It would be nice to have Ryan, but not when it will cost you assetts you need to fill holes.

3. The Draft. I do not trade out of this draft. I either move up to 4th or 5th overall, or select a defensman at 11. I do not trade down unless I'm cetain Pullock will still be on the board.

4. Defense. I agree with Bill again that Streit helps the mobility of this defense, and that it doesn't address the long-term need for a top defenseman. But IMO it does address the short-term need. What I would do is trade Laughton plus for a prospect defenseman that is projected to become that top guy. I would also still consider moving Couturier if we are getting an NHL proven young d-man.

My Opinions:

1. Goalies. Bernier would be a nice addition, but I would not give up more then Read and a 2nd. Anything more and I turn to FA, not a trade for Halak or Hiller unless they are very cheap.

2. Ryan. Bill is right. It would be nice to have Ryan, but not when it will cost you assetts you need to fill holes.

3. The Draft. I do not trade out of this draft. I either move up to 4th or 5th overall, or select a defensman at 11. I do not trade down unless I'm cetain Pullock will still be on the board.

4. Defense. I agree with Bill again that Streit helps the mobility of this defense, and that it doesn't address the long-term need for a top defenseman. But IMO it does address the short-term need. What I would do is trade Laughton plus for a prospect defenseman that is projected to become that top guy. I would also still consider moving Couturier if we are getting an NHL proven young d-man.
- youarewrong

youarewrong, you are right.

Pretty much agree with all the bullets. #4 may be easier said than done but right idea..

Beautiful blog, Bill.

BOB RYAB FIST

Hartnell isn't a lock to score 20-35 goals a season (Which is a large margin I might add). He's had a down season as a Flyer where he scored 14 goals. Do I think that will happen again, to your credit, no I do not. Jake Voracek is coming off a career season but it was his 5th season in the NHL and now we're gonna expect a repeat. Of course like anyone else, I hope he does it but he does have to do it again.

I'm really having a hard time understanding your argument. Your against Bobby Ryan's 30 goals a season (More of a guarantee then Hartnell's possible 20-35) because he doesn't play well defensively but we're very close to signing a 5.25 million dollar deal for 4 years with a defenseman that doesn't play well defensively. In fact Danny Briere was a 6 million dollar center/winger that didn't play well defensively and I could argue we all adored him.
- dingo8urbaby

The thing about Streit. While he is not a good defensive player, the skills he brings to the defense makes the defense better. Example. A lot of issues happened last season because the defense was slow getting back in thier zone to play the puck which resulted in turn-overs. Having Streit who is fast get back there sooner, it should cut down on pressured turn-overs. Another issue from the defense last year was the inability to move the puck. A lot of the time passes would turn into turn overs. This effected the goals against, but also the goals for because the team operates on offensive rushes, not puck possesion. So Adding Streit who is an excellent passer will allow the Flyers to move the puck out of the zone easier, which helps the defense.

But, backup is exactly the role that he is playing. He's not good enough to be their starter. Why should the Flyers pay top dollar for that?

BTW: All the press I've read about Bernier reminds me of another goalie "stuck" behind an established starter. That goalies was a first round pick too, who was ready to take the reins.

Martin Biron, anyone?
- johndewar

ouch.

My Opinions:

1. Goalies. Bernier would be a nice addition, but I would not give up more then Read and a 2nd. Anything more and I turn to FA, not a trade for Halak or Hiller unless they are very cheap.

2. Ryan. Bill is right. It would be nice to have Ryan, but not when it will cost you assetts you need to fill holes.

3. The Draft. I do not trade out of this draft. I either move up to 4th or 5th overall, or select a defensman at 11. I do not trade down unless I'm cetain Pullock will still be on the board.

4. Defense. I agree with Bill again that Streit helps the mobility of this defense, and that it doesn't address the long-term need for a top defenseman. But IMO it does address the short-term need. What I would do is trade Laughton plus for a prospect defenseman that is projected to become that top guy. I would also still consider moving Couturier if we are getting an NHL proven young d-man.
- youarewrong

If they choose to bring back Bryzgalov, I'd hope to see them go after Hiller in 2014 free agency (assuming Anaheim let's him walk). I'd rather not make a trade for Hiller but I'd consider Halak if the price was right. Preferably I'd want a FA goalie this year if Bryz is bought out. Bernier would be my second option but obviously they'll have to decide on him before free agency.

I honestly think g jake bobby could be deadly
- griouxmvp2012

So I'm skimming this while at work and honestly couldn't figure out who this goalie Jake Bobby was...

There shared a blonde moment with you all...

What should Bernier get as an RFA with his experience? Less or the same as it would take to acquire him via offer sheet?

I'd guess LA moves him before a team submits an offer sheet anyways.

My Opinions:

1. Goalies. Bernier would be a nice addition, but I would not give up more then Read and a 2nd. Anything more and I turn to FA, not a trade for Halak or Hiller unless they are very cheap.

2. Ryan. Bill is right. It would be nice to have Ryan, but not when it will cost you assetts you need to fill holes.

3. The Draft. I do not trade out of this draft. I either move up to 4th or 5th overall, or select a defensman at 11. I do not trade down unless I'm cetain Pullock will still be on the board.

4. Defense. I agree with Bill again that Streit helps the mobility of this defense, and that it doesn't address the long-term need for a top defenseman. But IMO it does address the short-term need. What I would do is trade Laughton plus for a prospect defenseman that is projected to become that top guy. I would also still consider moving Couturier if we are getting an NHL proven young d-man.
- youarewrong

I like all your points but I'mn ot trading Couturier for anything right now.

Ironic thing is that Read actually has less of a pro track record than Bernier by a long shot. And... there's no shortage of NHL forwards that started their careers with a bang but faded into obscurity, so it's not like Read's a sure thing moving forward either.

Read's trade value might never be higher, while there's still some perceived upside there.
- Tomahawk

Which is why I'm not opposed to moving him. I like Read, but you have to sell high when you can, especially if he's going to be tough to fit into future plans.

Hartnell isn't a lock to score 20-35 goals a season (Which is a large margin I might add). He's had a down season as a Flyer where he scored 14 goals. Do I think that will happen again, to your credit, no I do not. Jake Voracek is coming off a career season but it was his 5th season in the NHL and now we're gonna expect a repeat. Of course like anyone else, I hope he does it but he does have to do it again.

I'm really having a hard time understanding your argument. Your against Bobby Ryan's 30 goals a season (More of a guarantee then Hartnell's possible 20-35) because he doesn't play well defensively but we're very close to signing a 5.25 million dollar deal for 4 years with a defenseman that doesn't play well defensively. In fact Danny Briere was a 6 million dollar center/winger that didn't play well defensively and I could argue we all adored him.
- dingo8urbaby

Ok.. I guess we just differ on this. I am not at all enamored with Ryan. I think he is a very good player, but his addition doesnt make the team that much better. Hell, I think our goals per game would likely remain on par for the past 3 years (just north of 3g/g).

This will go on all day so... we just dont see eye to eye[/img]

What should Bernier get as an RFA with his experience? Less or the same as it would take to acquire him via offer sheet?

I'd guess LA moves him before a team submits an offer sheet anyways.
- eayost

Probably around $1.5 million if LA were to bring him back. I don't think he wants to back up anymore though so I think he'd sign an offer sheet before accepting a qualifying offer.

I'm excited to see what Schenn and Couturier can do in their 3rd (2nd full) NHL seasons. They are X-factors when wondering where some of the scoring will come from. Why break the bank for Bobby Ryan when these two players are still coming of age and could potentially break through offensively next year? I know there are some ifs involved there, but I'd rather be patient than trade away the farm.

The Flyers played well down the stretch last year, but it was too late. I don't think they are going to struggle as poorly this season, so I don't see the need to make a million trades this offseason, aside from becoming cap compliant.

The thing about Streit. While he is not a good defensive player, the skills he brings to the defense makes the defense better. Example. A lot of issues happened last season because the defense was slow getting back in thier zone to play the puck which resulted in turn-overs. Having Streit who is fast get back there sooner, it should cut down on pressured turn-overs. Another issue from the defense last year was the inability to move the puck. A lot of the time passes would turn into turn overs. This effected the goals against, but also the goals for because the team operates on offensive rushes, not puck possesion. So Adding Streit who is an excellent passer will allow the Flyers to move the puck out of the zone easier, which helps the defense.
- youarewrong

These are all great points. Let it be clear, I don't hate Streit but I do feel the Flyers have or had time to make a decision. Mark Streit isn't who I would have targeted myself.

Ok.. I guess we just differ on this. I am not at all enamored with Ryan. I think he is a very good player, but his addition doesnt make the team that much better. Hell, I think our goals per game would likely remain on par for the past 3 years (just north of 3g/g).

This will go on all day so... we just dont see eye to eye
- jak521[/img]

And Hartnell had a poor year last year. If he can get back to his form 2 years ago, we should be in pretty good shape offensively if the younger players take a step forward this season.

ouch.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Actually, my Marty Biron analogy wasn't perfect. He actually lost his job to Ryan Miller, I think. Or, they gave his job to Ryan Miller. Whichever. Biron was actually a starter, former first round pick.

Someone mentioned Nabakov and Kipper in San Jose. That was probably a better analogy.

And San Jose only got a 2nd round pick for Kipper.

The real point I'm trying to make here is that it's stupid to simply trade away assets for a player that may not even win the starter's job for you.

Ok.. I guess we just differ on this. I am not at all enamored with Ryan. I think he is a very good player, but his addition doesnt make the team that much better. Hell, I think our goals per game would likely remain on par for the past 3 years (just north of 3g/g).

This will go on all day so... we just dont see eye to eye
- jak521[/img]

Fair enough. Possible trade avenues aside, if you replaced Briere (Who was playing left wing to Schenn and Simmonds) with Ryan, Ryan is scoring 30 goals and Briere isn't. Ryan is younger. Ryan is bigger. He is stronger. He's crap defensively just like Briere. I just need more of a logical debate against Bobby Ryan.

And Hartnell had a poor year last year. If he can get back to his form 2 years ago, we should be in pretty good shape offensively if the younger players take a step forward this season.
- funmaster18

Couturier and Schenn need to take a step forward.

For the record, I am on board with a Bryz buyout. Frees up a lot of cap space now and in the future and his play hasn't been to the level where the Flyers need to keep him. My main concern is what is the plan if he's bought out. There's no name out there that screams sure fire to me, though I'd have some interest in Halak if he can be had cheap since he only has 1 year remaining on his deal. Bernier could be nice, but I really don't know what to expect from him and I'm not sure what it will take to have him.

Which is why I'm not opposed to moving him. I like Read, but you have to sell high when you can, especially if he's going to be tough to fit into future plans.
- flyguy12

I assume that the Flyers have already considered what he's going to be making in the next few years and whether or not he'll fit.

If that's the conclusion, then so be it. But he'd very helpful on the team this upcoming season if the goals are high.