he's getting paid at the top of the bracket, and probably more of the lower end of the bracket talent wise.

again, not saying he's junk... just overpaid, and not really complaining about it either, just saying that's the reality of UFA's
- dragus84

how many times do i have to say that salary rarely has anything to do with talent?

its all about market demand. plain and simple. if you are a commodity in a market desperate for that particular commodity your price goes up. if he went UFA the same time 10 other 50 point centres did.. he probably would of only gotten 4.

stop thinking about salary in context of talent, it doesnt work that way.

how many times do i have to say that salary rarely has anything to do with talent?

its all about market demand. plain and simple. if you are a commodity in a market desperate for that particular commodity your price goes up. if he went UFA the same time 10 other 50 point centres did.. he probably would of only gotten 4.

stop thinking about salary in context of talent, it doesnt work that way.
- Dozzer

see: Brad Richards.

well.. it works this way

grabo: i want 5+

burke: i'll give ya 3

grabo: guess i wont be playing here next year

burke: why not?

grabo: cause there are no other centres that will be UFA this year. so someone will give me 5.. hell.. my agent says there will be at least 5 teams offering that much

burke: you got me over a barrel here grabo

grabo: i know, but thats how it works

so bix, its eaither pay up or lose the asset. welcome to modern sports.
- Dozzer

I let him walk, I know modern sports as well. A guy getting paid league mini could have filled his shoes / skates this year. Just a grinder that skates fast.

how many times do i have to say that salary rarely has anything to do with talent?

its all about market demand. plain and simple. if you are a commodity in a market desperate for that particular commodity your price goes up. if he went UFA the same time 10 other 50 point centres did.. he probably would of only gotten 4.

stop thinking about salary in context of talent, it doesnt work that way.
- Dozzer

i'm not sure why you think we're arguing.

I keep saying i'm not saying the contract is a big issue. the topic of conversation was that guys hitting UFA will be overpaid because someone will pay it.

a la grabovski or ville leino.

edit: since you wanna argue about it, i'd say talent has a fair bit to do with contracts

we need more nastiness in the top six not to mention Ryan would cost us a fortune in picks/prospects.....I'd take a run at Clarkson first.
Clowe if he can be had at a reasonable price, he played the season injured but should bounce back.
- Barx

Clarkson will cost garbo $$ to sign him and clowe is starting to break down.

1st and a solid prospect + d-man (not name Gardiner or reilley) should get a deal done.

flyer Coburn and the 11th pick in this years draft

well.. it works this way

grabo: i want 5+

burke: i'll give ya 3

grabo: guess i wont be playing here next year

burke: why not?

grabo: cause there are no other centres that will be UFA this year. so someone will give me 5.. hell.. my agent says there will be at least 5 teams offering that much

burke: you got me over a barrel here grabo

grabo: i know, but thats how it works

so bix, its eaither pay up or lose the asset. welcome to modern sports.
- Dozzer

I like to think it went something like this.

Grabo: Hi

Burke: Look Meekhail..I am building a mother (frank)ing dynasty here in Toronto, i want you to be a part of it, take this 5.5 million dollar a year deal because I am building a mother (frank)ing dynasty, (frank) me I'm awesome.

I let him walk, I know modern sports as well. A guy getting paid league mini could have filled his shoes / skates this year. Just a grinder that skates fast.
- bixll

....um, no.

I let him walk, I know modern sports as well. A guy getting paid league mini could have filled his shoes / skates this year. Just a grinder that skates fast.
- bixll

so you have pegged him as a 20-30 point guy because of one bad half season?

that hardly seems fair. these past 48 games were not within the norm for him.

also, he was being used in more of a shutdown role.. wasnt til near the end of the season that carlyle started using him more in offensive situations.. and bang.. the chances started coming. it would of been just a matter of time for him to get his production going again.

i hope carlyle doesnt make the same mistake this season with him

Lindros took the hometown discount and freely admitted it....not many do it anymore, and I'm sure Clarkson won't either.
- Barx

Here's another example: Jason Allison. Again, he had baggage and injury issues, but the Jason Allison we signed would go for around 5 million today.

We got him for 1.5, as well.

Darren McCarty signed for just a hair over league minimum. A lot of guys took work wherever just to get it.

i'm not sure why you think we're arguing.

I keep saying i'm not saying the contract is a big issue. the topic of conversation was that guys hitting UFA will be overpaid because someone will pay it.

a la grabovski or ville leino.

edit: since you wanna argue about it, i'd say talent has a fair bit to do with contracts
- dragus84

thats the thing. when i consider the circumstances surrounding his contract i DONT think he is overpaid.

he's getting exactly what he should of got.

Here's another example: Jason Allison. Again, he had baggage and injury issues, but the Jason Allison we signed would go for around 5 million today.

We got him for 1.5, as well.

Darren McCarty signed for just a hair over league minimum. A lot of guys took work wherever just to get it.
- Leeman4Gilmour

you are talking about over a decade ago

yeah.. its been that long

....um, no.
- Barx

I realize that, but a 5.25 mill per player he certainly is not. That is Lucic money, Bregeron money, a 750k more tham Marchand will make on his new deal, up from 2.5 per.

Either Boston gets their player s to sign for lass than anyone, or the Leafs overpay terribly.

I like to think it went something like this.

Grabo: Hi

Burke: Look Meekhail..I am building a mother (frank)ing dynasty here in Toronto, i want you to be a part of it, take this 5.5 million dollar a year deal because I am building a mother (frank)ing dynasty, (frank) me I'm awesome.
- senstroll

one more line:

Burke: here, have a hot dog

I realize that, but a 5.25 mill per player he certainly is not. That is Lucic money, Bregeron money, a 750k more tham Marchand will make on his new deal, up from 2.5 per.

Either Boston gets their player s to sign for lass than anyone, or the Leafs overpay terribly.
- bixll

the most lucic has gotten in a season is 62 points.

that would be 3 more than grabo's best.

so you have pegged him as a 20-30 point guy because of one bad half season?

that hardly seems fair. these past 48 games were not within the norm for him.

also, he was being used in more of a shutdown role.. wasnt til near the end of the season that carlyle started using him more in offensive situations.. and bang.. the chances started coming. it would of been just a matter of time for him to get his production going again.

i hope carlyle doesnt make the same mistake this season with him
- Dozzer

Again, we were talking about being over paid for this year. Not for previous years, and if you compare his body of work against other, he was over paid.

the most lucic has gotten in a season is 62 points.

that would be 3 more than grabo's best.
- Dozzer

Lucic is twice the player Grabo ever will be, do you not see that, and far more valuable to his team.

Explain the Marchand deal then

how many times do i have to say that salary rarely has anything to do with talent?

its all about market demand. plain and simple. if you are a commodity in a market desperate for that particular commodity your price goes up. if he went UFA the same time 10 other 50 point centres did.. he probably would of only gotten 4.

stop thinking about salary in context of talent, it doesnt work that way.
- Dozzer

This is true but it certainly doesn't mean that skill and expectations of performance aren't the key drivers.

Lucic is twice the player Grabo ever will be, do you not see that, and far more valuable to his team.

Explain the Marchand deal then
- bixll

so why does lucic deserve more? out of curiousity? he's not better offensively.. he's a better leader i suppose.. but otherwise.. no.. other than style.. i dont think lucic is all that much better

Lucic is twice the player Grabo ever will be, do you not see that, and far more valuable to his team.

Expalin the Marchand deal then
- bixll

I think when you compare to other players in the league making around 5.5... it becomes pretty obvious... He is a 4.5 million kind of guy....and comes back to my original comment... if he was making 4 or 4.5 we wouldnt even be talking about him

Again, we were talking about being over paid for this year. Not for previous years, and if you compare his body of work against other, he was over paid.
- bixll

one bad year. i am sorry but to throw a guy under the bus after one bad year is jumping the gun massively

I think when you compare to other players in the league making around 5.5... it becomes pretty obvious... He is a 4.5 million kind of guy....and comes back to my original comment... if he was making 4 or 4.5 we wouldnt even be talking about him
- senstroll

i guess you missed my whole post about how he right in range

his production, coupled with the timing of his free agency, makes the contract bang on.

so why does lucic deserve more? out of curiousity? he's not better offensively.. he's a better leader i suppose.. but otherwise.. no.. other than style.. i dont think lucic is all that much better
- Dozzer

Are you kidding me?

This is true but it certainly doesn't mean that skill and expectations of performance aren't the key drivers.
- Canada Cup

yeah.. but not "key"

like i said.. if a dozen other centres of grabo's ilk hit the market at the same time he would have 60% of what he is getting now

its straight up market driven

Here's another example: Jason Allison. Again, he had baggage and injury issues, but the Jason Allison we signed would go for around 5 million today.

We got him for 1.5, as well.

Darren McCarty signed for just a hair over league minimum. A lot of guys took work wherever just to get it.
- Leeman4Gilmour

nobody would pay an injury ravaged, washed up, soft player with zero defensive ability coming out of retirement 5 million today.

Are you kidding me?
- bixll

prove your point then. what does lucic do that grabo doesnt?