Read is a 20 goal scorer, who plays all three forward sports well, is a good two way player, solid PP guy, who can play the point or up front, and is an outstanding penalty killer.

To me, he's nearly a core piece, a guy you can hand any job and he goes out and does it solidly.

While he lacks the potential of Couturier or Schenn, perhaps, he also performs right now at a higher level than both, and should for at least several more seasons.
- Jsaquella

Agree on Read... he's a really top-flight supporting-cast player. The value-for-dollar is ridiculously good on him as well.

But it's almost inevitable he's going to be sacrificed at the alter of poor advance budget management. Hartnell's extension was the first blow, Streit's acquisition was the final one, IMO.

Only thing really in doubt now is whether they can get something back for him of value... Umberger fetched a 1st-rounder (Sbisa)... Bernier wouldn't be a bad return, if that is even possible.

Flyers pinning extraordinary hopes on a big-bodied, 35-year-old dman... you'd think they would have actually learned something from the Hatcher/Rathje situation. If it wasn't the concussion, it was going to be the back, or the knees, or arthritis, something... there was no way in hell he wasn't ending up on LTIR before the age of 42.
- Tomahawk

i hear ya, it was absolutely a huge risk (and we know that's how they operate). and maybe they even accounted for the last part of your contract. just not for how far short he was gonna fall of that mark, if that makes sense

don't know what distinction i'm poking at here. i guess i both understand your point because it's true to a large extent, but i also feel like we still got big-time shafted by the hockey gods in this instance (...this one just felt right to me, more so than other "big" flyers moves)

my fave throw away was the gautier one...still mystified by that one
- isaiah520

That was Clarke who traded for Denis Gauthier.

Agree on Read... he's a really top-flight supporting-cast player. The value-for-dollar is ridiculously good on him as well.

But it's almost inevitable he's going to be sacrificed at the alter of poor advance budget management. Hartnell's extension was the first blow, Streit's acquisition was the final one, IMO.

Only thing really in doubt now is whether they can get something back for him of value... Umberger fetched a 1st-rounder (Sbisa)... Bernier wouldn't be a bad return, if that is even possible.
- Tomahawk

he was an rfa though, right? gonna have to move quickly i guess if they want to get value for read in a trade. unless, you know, they're out of contention at the deadline

Agree on Read... he's a really top-flight supporting-cast player. The value-for-dollar is ridiculously good on him as well.

But it's almost inevitable he's going to be sacrificed at the alter of poor advance budget management. Hartnell's extension was the first blow, Streit's acquisition was the final one, IMO.

Only thing really in doubt now is whether they can get something back for him of value... Umberger fetched a 1st-rounder (Sbisa)... Bernier wouldn't be a bad return, if that is even possible.
- Tomahawk

No, he wouldn't be a bad return, I just feel that people are acting like they'd be getting a ready made Vezina guy in Bernier, and that trading Read for him is like getting him for nothing.

No, he wouldn't be a bad return, I just feel that people are acting like they'd be getting a ready made Vezina guy in Bernier, and that trading Read for him is like getting him for nothing.
- Jsaquella

My issue with trading Read for Bernier is, you're trading a valuable asset for a huge unknown. Despite his potential, very possible Bernier struggles as a full time starter. The kid only has 62 games of NHL experience.
- Jsaquella

This year Bernier showed he could play. Sutter gave him more starts so Quick could heal from surgery. I just wish that Sutter would of given him more starts down the stretch. But Quick was back to form by then and Sutter loves playing his #1. Which ever team gets Bernier and doesnt throw him to the wolves with crap defense and poor team attitude is gonna love him. If Philly plays like they did last year it could mess with Bernier's confidence. But he has learned alot in LA and came along way with his development. Some team is gonna win the trade when they get him.

Rather trade him for an area of real need or draft picks. They already have a young goalie, they can sign one of the veteran free agents to be an insurance policy.
- Jsaquella

Isnt goaltending a big area of need? You guys seem to be huge on Mason and all. But who backs him up if Bryz is bought out? Mason is gonna need someone to challenge him.

That was Clarke who traded for Denis Gauthier.
- Jsaquella

no, gautier w/ a 2nd to LA for dreck

This year Bernier showed he could play. Sutter gave him more starts so Quick could heal from surgery. I just wish that Sutter would of given him more starts down the stretch. But Quick was back to form by then and Sutter loves playing his #1. Which ever team gets Bernier and doesnt throw him to the wolves with crap defense and poor team attitude is gonna love him. If Philly plays like they did last year it could mess with Bernier's confidence. But he has learned alot in LA and came along way with his development. Some team is gonna win the trade when they get him.
- poisondhearts37

He's played 62 NHL games. He's played well behind the Kings' system.

Ilya Bryzgalov played fantastically behind the Phoenix system, almost won a vezina. Came here and was a average guy at best.

no, gautier w/ a 2nd to LA for dreck
- isaiah520

That was to clear cap room.

Isnt goaltending a big area of need? You guys seem to be huge on Mason and all. But who backs him up if Bryz is bought out? Mason is gonna need someone to challenge him.
- poisondhearts37

There's free agency, trades for other vets and also guys who could be bought out by their current teams.

It's not Bernier or bust.

Also, I like Bernier, think he's a good goalie. My issue is that people think getting him for Matt Read is a steal for the Flyers. It's not a steal. It's a good asset for a good, if unproven, asset

Isnt goaltending a big area of need? You guys seem to be huge on Mason and all. But who backs him up if Bryz is bought out? Mason is gonna need someone to challenge him.
- poisondhearts37

Yeah, just like adding Hovinen shouldn't have precluded keeping Eriksson, having Mason shouldn't preclude us from thinking seriously about Bernier.

A lot of people see the numbers on Emery and think he would be a solid add, but rolling the dice on his hips and the blocking style he's been forced to adopt due to said hips is just a big of a gamble as going with two youngsters, IMO.

Worse comes to worst, and both guys fizzle, you're exactly where you are now... stuck w/ mediocre goaltending. If both guys flourish, you're probably going to get a decent ROI on the guy you choose to deal.

He's played 62 NHL games. He's played well behind the Kings' system.

Ilya Bryzgalov played fantastically behind the Phoenix system, almost won a vezina. Came here and was a average guy at best.
- Jsaquella

Bernier didnt do well so much behind LA's system. Alot of his good play was on him. Due to his positioning. Its outstanding and some of the best Ive seen. He seems to always be in the right place. Where as Quick is more erratic and everywhere and playing in the Kings system benefits him far more. Because our D are able to bail him out once in a while.

Im just saying. Which ever team ends up with him is gonna enjoy watching him play. I personally hope its NJ and he plays a year behind Marty and we get one of Merrill or Matteau.

Flyers pinning extraordinary hopes on a big-bodied, 35-year-old dman... you'd think they would have actually learned something from the Hatcher/Rathje situation. If it wasn't the concussion, it was going to be the back, or the knees, or arthritis, something... there was no way in hell he wasn't ending up on LTIR before the age of 42.
- Tomahawk

Man, I wish you were online a few days ago when this subject was brought up!

That was to clear cap room.
- Jsaquella

IIRC, it had more to do w/ a promise homer made to get him back into the nhl

edit- almost positive he was traded from the minors and it was not a cap move

There's free agency, trades for other vets and also guys who could be bought out by their current teams.

It's not Bernier or bust.

Also, I like Bernier, think he's a good goalie. My issue is that people think getting him for Matt Read is a steal for the Flyers. It's not a steal. It's a good asset for a good, if unproven, asset
- Jsaquella

I think what most people are getting at was that Read was a free player for you guys. You just had to sign a undrafted FA. Didnt have to use assets to get him. I do know what your saying. Read has value to. He is worth something. But one issue going with that is that there are so many people that are still so high on Bernie it almost negates Read. Some of these buy out goalies are still gonna get a pretty penny. If fluery were bought out he would still get 5mil from someone else. Same goes for Lou.

Read is a 20 goal scorer, who plays all three forward sports well, is a good two way player, solid PP guy, who can play the point or up front, and is an outstanding penalty killer.

To me, he's nearly a core piece, a guy you can hand any job and he goes out and does it solidly.

While he lacks the potential of Couturier or Schenn, perhaps, he also performs right now at a higher level than both, and should for at least several more seasons.
- Jsaquella

Agreed...some are suggesting he's got to be moved before his next contract, one which will likely involve a large percentage raise..I bet some of those same people will be looking to sign a replacement to fill his substantial role, where you'd have to pay that amount anyway.

i hear ya, it was absolutely a huge risk (and we know that's how they operate). and maybe they even accounted for the last part of your contract. just not for how far short he was gonna fall of that mark, if that makes sense

don't know what distinction i'm poking at here. i guess i both understand your point because it's true to a large extent, but i also feel like we still got big-time shafted by the hockey gods in this instance (...this one just felt right to me, more so than other "big" flyers moves)
- FlyerMike18

I liken the Flyers team to a guy who's built his house on a foundation of sand because he was in a rush to get the marble floors, home theater and french range into the house in an effort to keep up with the Jones'.

It might look impressive for awhile, but how surprised will anybody really be when a little rain comes along and the whole thing starts to come apart?

Then, of course, instead of addressing the fundamental issues, he'll just keep plastering over the cracks as they come until one day he's buried alive in the rubble.

Agreed...some are suggesting he's got to be moved before his next contract, one which will likely involve a large percentage raise..I bet some of those same people will be looking to sign a replacement to fill his substantial role, where you'd have to pay that amount anyway.
- exlund

Well either way after this year Read or his replacement is getting paid. At least with trading him we get something back for him, and in this case with the hypothetical scenario of acquring Bernier for him, you're getting in my opinion a pretty good return, who has a higher potential to flourish than Read ever did. Or Bernier (or whoever they may or may not trade him for) may flop and it ends up being a wash anyway, since Read cost us nothing to obtain.

IIRC, it had more to do w/ a promise homer made to get him back into the nhl
- isaiah520

That's what I remember. He was in Redden-land playing for the Phantoms and Homer released him from exile. The cost unloading his of his contract was a second rounder.

I liken the Flyers team to a guy who's built his house on a foundation of sand because he was in a rush to get the marble floors, home theater and french range into the house in an effort to keep up with the Jones'.

It might look impressive for awhile, but how surprised will anybody really be when a little rain comes along and the whole thing starts to come apart?

Then, of course, instead of addressing the fundamental issues, he'll just keep plastering over the cracks as they come until one day he's buried alive in the rubble.
- Tomahawk

if you're referring to the need to do a better job hanging onto their draft picks/prospects and developing from within, then i'm 100% with you. the constantly chasing whatever big name is out there in free agency or the trade market mentality is certainly not what i want to see either

but all that aside.....that mentality should've paid off more than it has on that one particular move

Agreed...some are suggesting he's got to be moved before his next contract, one which will likely involve a large percentage raise..I bet some of those same people will be looking to sign a replacement to fill his substantial role, where you'd have to pay that amount anyway.
- exlund

Exactly.

Well either way after this year Read or his replacement is getting paid. At least with trading him we get something back for him, and in this case with the hypothetical scenario of acquring Bernier for him, you're getting in my opinion a pretty good return, who has a higher potential to flourish than Read ever did. Or Bernier (or whoever they may or may not trade him for) may flop and it ends up being a wash anyway, since Read cost us nothing to obtain.
- iroc4me2

We don't know what his contract demands are. If they are reasonable I would much rather see him stay than chase an overpaid ufa this summer to replace him.

if you're referring to the need to do a better job hanging onto their draft picks/prospects and developing from within, then i'm 100% with you. the constantly chasing whatever big name is out there in free agency or the trade market mentality is certainly not what i want to see either

but all that aside.....that mentality should've paid off more than it has on that one particular move
- FlyerMike18

That worked well before the cap. Since then, you need to be a little more prudent with the money you throw at all the bright shiny objects you see. Homer's become a little too fixated on certain players too often at the detriment of the bigger, long term picture.