Stop with the straw men, please. If Bill says that Bob says he wasn't mentally with it, and Lavi knew that, I don't have a problem with him taking him out. Sure, it looked bad, because he had been good for most of the year, and there was basically crap behind him. But if what Bill said was true, and Bill did agree with the move, apparently, then I'm not going to get on Laviolette's case about it.

You can keep on believing that Laviolette had no idea what he was doing with goalies during that series, when he really didn't have much to work with: A mentally broken Bob (as Bill wrote), and a leaky Boosh and Leighton. It was embarrassing only because that's what the front office gave Lavi to work with.
- feelingkettle

I'm not using a straw man. I'm disagree with you. I'm not misrepresenting anything you've said at all.

You say you cut Laviolette slack because you feel he was handed a "bad situation". Correct or not?

My opinion is that Laviolette made a less than ideal situation(not a bad situation) worse because he panicked and juggled his goalies like a kid playing Xbox.

Neither of us feels that he's more to blame than Snider and the front office, and neither of us feel that he was handed a great situation in goal. I don't feel either one of us is introducing a straw man, we're simply in disagreement on how much blame Laviolette should get.

TiVo is what, 10 years old and DVR's are everywhere. You only have you to blame.
- Flyskippy

Just can't do live sports on the DVR. If it's not "live" it isn't nearly as exciting or something

Just can't do live sports on the DVR. If it's not "live" it isn't nearly as exciting or something
- eayost

Should have peed in one of the empties.

I'm not using a straw man. I'm disagree with you. I'm not misrepresenting anything you've said at all.

You say you cut Laviolette slack because you feel he was handed a "bad situation". Correct or not?

My opinion is that Laviolette made a less than ideal situation(not a bad situation) worse because he panicked and juggled his goalies like a kid playing Xbox.

Neither of us feels that he's more to blame than Snider and the front office, and neither of us feel that he was handed a great situation in goal. I don't feel either one of us is introducing a straw man, we're simply in disagreement on how much blame Laviolette should get.
- Jsaquella

Since the straw man comment is picking up steam: straw man 1. Saying you had to agree with Bill. Straw man 2. that I want to completely erase any blame from Laviolette. But anyway...that's not my point.

Lavi was handed a bad situation with Boucher and Leighton behind Bob. Bob mentally crapped out, as Bill says. Bill doesn't blame Lavi for taking him out. You can disagree with that. But I take note when a respected blogger says he doesn't have a problem with that decision. A decision which some believe led to the Bryz signing, which led to Bob getting traded.

All I'm saying is it's not as black and white as taking Bob out after one period. Apparently he took Game 1's loss hard, and then pooped all over the next period of hockey he played.

Ridiculous that you expect Jsaq to take Bill's blog into account and refuse to address his stance of not blaming Lavi 100% and then resort to a cry of straw man tactics. What's next, Nazi mentions?
- Flyskippy

The Spanish Inquisition, mainly because nobody expects it

Should have peed in one of the empties.
- Jsaquella

Duly noted

The Spanish Inquisition, mainly because nobody expects it


- Jsaquella

The bravado that one is right on every point of debate here is irritating. I respect the opinions of others -- I know more often than not others will have differing opinions. It bothers me when someone cries "straw man" where there was no straw man in an attempt to somehow invalidate another's argument especially when there is a habit of always seeming to be right in one's own eyes on this board.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I like talking puck. When someone else sees something I didn't or don't, I'll at least entertain the thought of the other person being right. I guess it's a character flaw.

Since the straw man comment is picking up steam: straw man 1. Saying you had to agree with Bill. Straw man 2. that I want to completely erase any blame from Laviolette. But anyway...that's not my point.
- feelingkettle

Ok...

Lavi was handed a bad situation with Boucher and Leighton behind Bob. Bob mentally crapped out, as Bill says. Bill doesn't blame Lavi for taking him out. You can disagree with that. But I take note when a respected blogger says he doesn't have a problem with that decision. A decision which some believe led to the Bryz signing, which led to Bob getting traded.

I have yet to see anyone disagree with this.

All I'm saying is it's not as black and white as taking Bob out after one period. Apparently he took Game 1's loss hard, and then pooped all over the next period of hockey he played.

I have yet to see anyone disagree with this.

EDIT: Edited for some weird html coding I messed up.

Just can't do live sports on the DVR. If it's not "live" it isn't nearly as exciting or something
- eayost

If you haven't seen it before, it's new to you.

Or... you need to buy Depends.

Ok...


I have yet to see anyone disagree with this.
- Flyskippy

Laviolette panicked, and it created a bad situation that embarrassed Snider. Snider's overreaction to it was certainly far worse, but to say that it wasn't the impetus for Snider's foolishness is cutting Laviolette far more slack than I am willing to cut him. At the time, I was willing to do so. Upon further reflection and more evidence of Laviolette's tendencies and decisions as a coach, I find more reason not to cut him slack, even while I still blame Snider and the front office to a greater extent than Laviolette for the Bryzgalov mess.
- jsaq

I have yet to see anyone disagree with this.
- Flyskippy

Unfortunately, it is that black and white. If Laviolette had concerns about the goaltending, he should have voiced them to Holmgren. Ken Hitchcock had zero trouble voicing his opinion to Clarke when he was the head coach.
- jsaq

Please read harder before you accuse me of things. This argument has now become absurd and a giant waste of time (not blaming just you). I know there are some nice people on here, but things like this poop remind me why I spend weeks at a time away from here.

The bravado that one is right on every point of debate here is irritating. I respect the opinions of others -- I know more often than not others will have differing opinions. It bothers me when someone cries "straw man" where there was no straw man in an attempt to somehow invalidate another's argument especially when there is a habit of always seeming to be right in one's own eyes on this board.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I like talking puck. When someone else sees something I didn't or don't, I'll at least entertain the thought of the other person being right. I guess it's a character flaw.
- Flyskippy

Hell, I'm wrong all the time. Ask my wife.

If you had asked me in the summer of 2011 if Laviolette handled the situation the best he could, I would have agreed 100%.

Unfortunately, since that time, I have seen Laviolette make any number of decisions that I found myself disagreeing with. It made me rethink my position on his handling of Bobrovsky.

With the benefit of hindsight, I assign more blame to Laviolette in his handling of the goalies in 2011 than I did at the time.

Further, I was excited that the team finally committed long term to an established goalie and former Vezina finalist, who should have still been in his prime.

Looking back, my opinion on both topics has changed.

Please read harder before you accuse me of things. This argument has now become absurd and a giant waste of time (not blaming just you). I know there are some nice people on here, but things like this poop remind me why I spend weeks at a time away from here.
- feelingkettle

Yeah, I bolded the part that I meant in the middle and it got fouled up. Awfully sensitive, though, for one accusing others of straw man tactics.

I do recall meeting at the Buzzgate (well, one of them) and we got on ok.

Hell, I'm wrong all the time. Ask my wife.

If you had asked me in the summer of 2011 if Laviolette handled the situation the best he could, I would have agreed 100%.

Unfortunately, since that time, I have seen Laviolette make any number of decisions that I found myself disagreeing with. It made me rethink my position on his handling of Bobrovsky.

With the benefit of hindsight, I assign more blame to Laviolette in his handling of the goalies in 2011 than I did at the time.

Further, I was excited that the team finally committed long term to an established goalie and former Vezina finalist, who should have still been in his prime.

Looking back, my opinion on both topics has changed.
- Jsaquella

Anyone with an encyclopedic memory knows that I was defending Lavi until this past season. I can recall the exact night that changed my mind (had to do with the goalies being changed and how it was unfair to both Bryz and Boosh -- who had to come in cold after Bryz let in 4 to blow a 4-0 lead and then Boosh let in the winning goal against Pittsburgh). The doubts that were explained away in my attempts to hope it wasn't Lavi were piled on that night.

Since the straw man comment is picking up steam: straw man 1. Saying you had to agree with Bill. Straw man 2. that I want to completely erase any blame from Laviolette. But anyway...that's not my point.

Lavi was handed a bad situation with Boucher and Leighton behind Bob. Bob mentally crapped out, as Bill says. Bill doesn't blame Lavi for taking him out. You can disagree with that. But I take note when a respected blogger says he doesn't have a problem with that decision. A decision which some believe led to the Bryz signing, which led to Bob getting traded.

All I'm saying is it's not as black and white as taking Bob out after one period. Apparently he took Game 1's loss hard, and then pooped all over the next period of hockey he played.
- feelingkettle

I don't feel that Laviolette was handed a bad situation. It wasn't ideal, but it was not some untenable situation that was guaranteed to end in failure. Again, the backups had helped the Flyers reach the SCF just 12 months before, so to call it a "bad situation" is a stretch.

Had Laviolette not made the decision to juggle the goalies, and simply stuck with Bobrovsky, I doubt that Snider makes his 'we gotta get a goalie' speech.

That is all I am saying. If I'm doing a poor job of it, so be. Perhaps I took a bit of offense at your "As if on cue" comment and it clouded my responses. But whatever. It's not worth my time or effort. Have a swell night.

and... Happy Father's Day!

Anyone with an encyclopedic memory knows that I was defending Lavi until this past season. I can recall the exact night that changed my mind (had to do with the goalies being changed and how it was unfair to both Bryz and Boosh -- who had to come in cold after Bryz let in 4 to blow a 4-0 lead and then Boosh let in the winning goal against Pittsburgh). The doubts that were explained away in my attempts to hope it wasn't Lavi were piled on that night.
- Flyskippy

That's more or less my view, too. I was a huge Laviolette fan, and was overjoyed that he got the job.

I ignored some things that made me scratch my head by saying "2010!" to myself and the masterful job he did the second half of that season & the playoffs.

I just got to the point where there was more head scratching than nodding in agreement and going, "Yeah, great move!"

I don't even think he's a bad coach. Just no longer think he's the right coach

and... Happy Father's Day!
- Flyskippy

Yes, same to you. Are you at the point where you should be getting two ties , or does that not apply as yet?

Yes, same to you. Are you at the point where you should be getting two ties , or does that not apply as yet?
- Jsaquella

Not there quite yet. Today is the due date. If my wife doesn't go into labor by 10:30 Monday morning, I'm taking her to her doctor's for a final appointment. There we will sit with him as he calls the hospital to schedule a C-section. Then, we will know when baby is arriving.

Not there quite yet. Today is the due date. If my wife doesn't go into labor by 10:30 Monday morning, I'm taking her to her doctor's for a final appointment. There we will sit with him as he calls the hospital to schedule a C-section. Then, we will know when baby is arriving.
- Flyskippy

It's a fun time...just wanted to make sure you're not coaching breathing while hanging out on HB

It's a fun time...just wanted to make sure you're not coaching breathing while hanging out on HB
- Jsaquella

Haha! With my wife feeling so uncomfortable, I can't really do anything that I can't pause or whatever, so HB is perfect. See what's being discussed, pop a post here or there, and then attend to her as needed. She's sleeping soundly now, so I can probably get a game of NHL 13 or two in before hitting the hay myself.

At least we have been able to watch the SCF together. I have discovered her biggest pet peeve: Refs/linesmen who leave broken sticks on the ice when play has gone the other way. So, say a Hawk breaks a stick in the B's zone. Play goes the other way and the B's get a chance or two in the Hawks' zone. Then the Hawks transition and try to get something going back in the B's zone and the same stick from before is in the same exact spot. Drives her nuts because sometimes you'll see a ref/linesman pick up the stick and give it to the nearest bench or penalty box.

The Flyers should look at Andrew Ference on the Bruins. He's an UFA this summer. I like him way more than Coburn and Meszaros and his cap hit is way less than either as well. He would totally be worth the slight raise at his 2.5 mil a season. He would be a solid 4th/5th defenseman. I'd like to see Meszaros and Coburn go anyways.

The Flyers should look at Andrew Ference on the Bruins. He's an UFA this summer. I like him way more than Coburn and Meszaros and his cap hit is way less than either as well. He would totally be worth the slight raise at his 2.5 mil a season. He would be a solid 4th/5th defenseman. I'd like to see Meszaros and Coburn go anyways.
- TonyBazz

I was thinking this as well. But he's over 35 and will probably command more than the Flyers can allot to him.

I was thinking this as well. But he's over 35 and will probably command more than the Flyers can allot to him.
- hereticpride

He turned 34 in March and he would only command 3.5 million at the most and probably a 3 year deal. I'd take that over Coburn and Meszaros' 4 plus million.

Trade coots for subban! Oh wait, our 3rd line maybe someday selke winning coots is sooooooo much more better than a Norris winning dman. Ahhh loviNg the days of being laughed at on hb at how my trade proposals are crazy. Guess that eod have turned out ok if we could have made it back 6 months ago as suggested. Go ahead say I'm still crazy. Defend that coots is still better than subban. You know who you are. Say we got streit and how he's better tHan subban and cheaper and didn't cost us coots. Yep.

That was my "I'm right" post for the day. At least in my head.