i'm gonna go ahead and recall that i had issues with the third pair D in 2010






- Don'tForgetTocchet

With their level of play, sure...did you care who drafted them?

Jiri Dopita. Best player not in the NHL. Anyone remember that signing?



- Doc_Sarcasm

Dopita had as much emotionally invested in being a NHLer as I do in the tissue I just wiped my nose with

Agreed about the Boston system.........Streit is gonna be a PP specialist and then play 4/5 mins (if he gets signed). But he will sign for #1/2 dmen money. And they gave up assets.......OK not quality assets, but assets nonetheless.

I feel the Flyers draft very well, especially forwards. They could be drunk & blind folded and still draft a guy 29th and he turns in a quality career (winger or center that is).

But for whatever reason dmen & goalies they have no luck with.

My point is that in a cap league that can't keep trying to buy their way out of trouble every year.
- SonicDefMonkeys

Part of the reason they are buying their way out this year is because the league changed the rules to the CBA on contracts they approved in the past. Now I will agree they bid against themselves when negotiating with Bryz. However, I didn't have a problem with the asset management involved to acquire Kimmo, Pronger, Coburn, Grossman, and Mez.

Dopita had as much emotionally invested in being a NHLer as I do in the tissue I just wiped my nose with
- Jsaquella

but he did score 4 goals in one game. and i even remember him rolling his eyes after the last goal, as if he were saying.. "I bet you'll expect me to come to play EVERY night now, huh?"

Agreed about the Boston system.........Streit is gonna be a PP specialist and then play 4/5 mins (if he gets signed). But he will sign for #1/2 dmen money. And they gave up assets.......OK not quality assets, but assets nonetheless.

I feel the Flyers draft very well, especially forwards. They could be drunk & blind folded and still draft a guy 29th and he turns in a quality career (winger or center that is).

But for whatever reason dmen & goalies they have no luck with.

My point is that in a cap league that can't keep trying to buy their way out of trouble every year.
- SonicDefMonkeys

Streit's probably going to be on the 2nd pair, and yes, his money will be a bit higher than the average 2nd pair defenseman.

But they still git a quality defenseman for an AHLer & 4th rounder.

Bottom line is it's not the black hole that it's made out to be. Cap or no cap. We can look at every team and see where they traded top assets to fill needs on a team. It was that way before the Cap, and it still is after it. If it wasn't, Free Agency would be dead. And teams wouldn't be trading assets for players at the trade deadline to fill holes in their roster. I don't care how they put a quality team on the ice. Just do it like Nike. If I'm at the parade, I'm not going to be thinking how many of the team's defenseman did they draft and develop.
- MJL

we're all armchair GMs in some sense, so i look at it from that standpoint. the cap was a game changer simply because you can't buy your way out of mistakes at some point and the CBOs the flyers exhaust hammer that point home. no more burrying mistakes in the minors and post CBO, no more mulligans. homer must be more careful than ever not to box himself in.

With their level of play, sure...did you care who drafted them?
- Jsaquella

nope.

nope.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

zactly

we're all armchair GMs in some sense, so i look at it from that standpoint. the cap was a game changer simply because you can't buy your way out of mistakes at some point and the CBOs the flyers exhaust hammer that point home. no more burrying mistakes in the minors and post CBO, no more mulligans. homer must be more careful than ever not to box himself in.
- isaiah520

even with 2 players eating up like a third of it for the pens, i still enjoy the wrinkle it adds to the game

Whats shaking hooooligans!

Really? Coburn is likely the quickest skater the flyers have on the backend...
- Buzzo

- Flyskippy

Haha you bet your ass he is! Our good old Atlanta Thrasher Mr. Consistency

Hows life skip?

That's the thing, they still acquire them. When they went to the SCF in 1985 & 87, they didn't have many home grown defensemen, either.

Or in 2010. Strangely enough, not many people female doged about their draft record and defnsemen then
- Jsaquella

Haha you bet your ass he is! Our good old Atlanta Thrasher Mr. Consistency

Hows life skip?
- flyer_nutter

Life is... waiting. Baby is due this Sunday (Father's Day!) but is deemed to be big. Like Byfuglien big, except more disciplined. So, unless my wife goes into labor before Monday, we go to her doctor's then and schedule a C-section. Just glad baby was not born yet to skip all the birthdays of people who would go, "S/he has the same birthday as me!!!"

If you had Ryan McGill along the wall to help, you would be jittery too.
Roussel and Soderstrom were horrendous, those were some dark times to be a Flyers fan.
- ravishingone

I thank God I was away at college for 1990-91 and baseball had taken away my attention until the strike of 1994. I almost bailed on the NHL due to the '94 lockout, but am glad I just blamed it on the owners while Mr. Snider then played a big role in making sure that season was not cancelled.

Now THAT era had a horrible defense corps. When Greg Hawgood is a fan favorite, either they suck or everyone is drunk
- Jsaquella

It was hard keeping an eye on the team then as I was at my busiest in school. Were there internet boards akin to those today back then, maybe I could have at least kept a finger on the (lack of) pulse of the team.

EDIT: I am posting to myself -- Sweet!

we're all armchair GMs in some sense, so i look at it from that standpoint. the cap was a game changer simply because you can't buy your way out of mistakes at some point and the CBOs the flyers exhaust hammer that point home. no more burrying mistakes in the minors and post CBO, no more mulligans. homer must be more careful than ever not to box himself in.
- isaiah520

Well then the key is make less mistakes with the players that you sign. And now that they know that the rules are changed, they're not going to trade Gagne and take a Walker back. It's the same for every team. But let's stop pretending that the Flyers are the only team who trades assets for more advanced players, or signs Free Agents to bolster the lineup. Every team is in the same boat. Some just choose not to spend the money that the Flyers do. And the Flyers are always going to spend the money.

It was hard keeping an eye on the team then as I was at my busiest in school. Were there internet boards akin to those today back then, maybe I could have at least kept a finger on the (lack of) pulse of the team.

EDIT: I am posting to myself -- Sweet!
- Flyskippy

You say something Skip? I wasn't paying attention.

Here's why asset management, as you're defining it here, is overrated:

Let's look at two teams: the Nashville Predators and the Toronto Maple Leafs.

By any metric, the Predators are a very successful NHL franchise, particularly when you consider that they are a small-market team. Very rarely has anyone considered them wasteful in the area of asset management.

Yet, at the same time, this fact cannot be ignored, as well: The Predators have NEVER, as in NEVER, advanced past the second round of the playoffs.

So how does that happen?

The Predators in previous seasons, including last year, have iced as many as five homegrown defensemen, including the likes of Shea Weber and Ryan Suter. They've had a Vezina finalist in Pekka Rinne. They've had continuity in coaching and senior management...yet still, no real playoff success, and certainly not sustained playoff success.

Why? Because at some point, you have more assets than you need, and you need to cash those in. It's great, conceivably, to draft in the first round every single season. But if you're Nashville, and you've needed two top 6 forwards, including a center, for the last five years, is it truly better to continue accumulating assets -- none of whom are guaranteed to make it into the NHL -- simply because your philosophy is to not "waste" them?

Toronto was in the same position, but in a different fashion. If you believe what you read, Brian Burke was dismissed in part because he refused to use the full financial might of Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment in order to improve the Maple Leafs. No back-diving contracts. No expending picks for exclusive negotiating rights. No trades at the trade deadline.

Now again, that's all fine and dandy...until you miss the playoffs, as a franchise, for 8 consecutive seasons.

My point is this: Even if they hit on every pick, the Flyers can't keep every single player they draft. They will not all develop at the same pace. Some will get hurt. Some will require financial compensation that the franchise isn't comfortable with. Some will choose to play elsewhere when they have the opportunity to leave.

The best asset management is this: Don't fall in love with draft picks you haven't made. Don't hold on to draft picks you did make for too long. Spend money when you have to. Swallow hard if you're close enough to smell the Cup, a la acquiring Chris Pronger, or pay through the nose if you truly think you can land a generational player, like Eric Lindros or Shea Weber.

Being the Philadelphia Flyers is better than being a fan of the Nashville Predators or the pre-Dave Nonis Maple Leafs. Because assets are just that: They're expendable, in the right deal.

If somebody said the Flyers were offered Steven Stamkos and Eric Brewer for Claude Giroux, Tye McGinn and a third-round pick, I'd look at it like I do any other transaction: Are the assets roughly the same, and if so, are my positional needs met?

If those answers are both yes, then you do it. And you wish the assets that departed well, and then focus on your team.
- AllInForFlyers

Great post!

Great post!
- MJL

definitely! the grass is always greener in some ways

Bernie also thought Dominic Roussel was the next great French Canadian goalie
- Jsaquella

He did speak quite highly of Bob, if I recall.

With both Meszaros and Grossmann having injury concerns. I don't think it's a very good idea to trade a defenseman to add a forward. As I said previously, if they want to trade Meszaros and bring in a solid 3rd pair defenseman with a lesser Cap hit to create more cap flexibility. I'm fine with that. You have to go all the way back to last Season to see what happens when defenseman get injured. And it's the same concern as when you wanted to trade Coburn for a draft pick.
- MJL

At some point though, the cap structure of the D corps (and hence, the D corps itself) will have to be addressed. There will be too many players making 3.5 6+ million if everyone is healthy and available you have

Timonen
Schenn
Streit
Mez
Coburn
Grossmann
Gervais
Gus
Lauri?
Bourdon?

While it would be great to have that depth in case of injury, they can't carry those cap hits on the odd chance they are all healthy, not to mention the logjam that prevents prospects from getting their shot. Shedding a D man like Mez is a likely scenario.

Some of us are going to be dead-wrong about Andrej Meszaros' value. I think he gets moved for a low-second or high-third rounder, or a third-line winger who can score 15 goals.

I absolutely think he has value, because he's only got one year left on his deal.

Others of us think he has no value at all, because of the injuries.

I am curious which segment of us is correct, because obviously, there's no middle ground there.
- AllInForFlyers

I think if it comes out that he's back to 100% healthy and has no lingering issues or deficiencies, it's possible he could garner a 2nd rounder, but if his health is still in doubt, that decreases his value immensely and the Flyers would be fortunate to get anyone to take him and his salary.

At this point, I think Grossmann is better served to be a third pairing guy and that isn't meant to minimize his value. Effective PKer and block shots isn't sexy, but effective.
- ravishingone

If 100% healthy, I think he's solidly in the second pairing category.

I'ts like having an older Matt Carle back kind of

he skates better then I thought, it's a good move, depending on the contract term
- puckhead17

An older Matt Carle only with better puck carrying, better hands, a better shot, better PP QB ability and somewhat less effective defense. Carle definitely has the edge in the age cateogry.