yandle?

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/phi130609.html
- isaiah520

should we dump coots who has shown no ability to score in the NHL?

maybe so i'd trade him way before schenn

I think people have this notion that Yandle isn't good because of the perceived cost. The guy is an all star caliber offensive defenseman, who is capable in his own end.

I remember people shredding the rumored Jeff Carter trade prior to it happening, too.
- Jsaquella

I love coots but if we look at the trade as yandle/Laughton (coots replacement) for coots do we make that trade? I'd say yes. Fair for both teams.

I love coots but if we look at the trade as yandle/Laughton (coots replacement) for coots do we make that trade? I'd say yes. Fair for both teams.
- SMS4016

i think the yandle situation will determine who we draft

if we get yandle draft a forward if we don't get him draft a dman... try to take some leverage away from phoenix

I like Yandle and Shattenkirk pretty equally. No doubt Phoenix needs some forward help. Plus, Yandle will be 27 and under control for 3 seasons at a very respectable cap hit for offensive d-man.
- ravishingone

Shattenkirk would be a solid addition, too. It's a risky proposition regardless.

If Couturier becomes a Patrice Bergeron level player, is he worth giving up for Yandle or Shattenkirk? Maybe not. If he becomes a Martin Hanzal? Absolutely.

It's a discussion about what helps the team more, or at least that should be what it's about.

i think the yandle situation will determine who we draft

if we get yandle draft a forward if we don't get him draft a dman... try to take some leverage away from phoenix
- 2Real

Even if we get yandle if risto is there at 11 we better take him. Or pulock too. Unless shink/nitch fall to 11

Even if we get yandle if risto is there at 11 we better take him. Or pulock too. Unless shink/nitch fall to 11
- SMS4016

basically what it will come down to is how good homer is good at bsing the phoenix gm to make a deal he has all the leverage in if he can only give up read or cooter (i'd prefer more with yandle if we were giving up cooter) i'd be happy

I like Yandle and Shattenkirk pretty equally. No doubt Phoenix needs some forward help. Plus, Yandle will be 27 and under control for 3 seasons at a very respectable cap hit for offensive d-man.
- ravishingone

I like Yandle also, and he would help the Flyers. But not for Couturier. And no way would I trade Read for Bernier.

should we dump coots who has shown no ability to score in the NHL?

maybe so i'd trade him way before schenn
- 2Real

Even if we get yandle if risto is there at 11 we better take him. Or pulock too. Unless shink/nitch fall to 11
- SMS4016

The Flyers just better take the best player available. Regardless of position.

I'm just not comfortable with Keith Yandle. If it was just Sean Couturier, I could probably talk myself into it, but a package?

I realize Couturier hasn't accomplished enough to make it a 1-for-1 swap, but that's exactly my point: Keith Yandle's a good -- maybe even very good -- player.

But why do the Flyers have to do this deal right now now now now NOW? That's the very definition of selling low: If you have to give a package for Keith Yandle, then what, exactly, is the point of getting younger? You're already assuming significant risk in trading a 6-4, 200-pound center who is polished defensively and only 20 years old. Yandle's under contract for three more years. The Flyers have control of Couturier's rights for another five years, at least.

Even worse to make it happen, Phoenix wants MORE than Couturier? That's asinine. You give more for Shea Weber. You don't give more for Keith Yandle -- my point being, OTHER TEAMS have Keith Yandle! He's not rare -- he's a high-quality offensive defenseman. But he's not unique! Nobody said, "Holy cow, if we get Keith Yandle, we're winning multiple Stanley Cups!"

I'm not saying "never trade Sean Couturier." I'm saying that Sean Couturier-plus for Keith Yandle is asinine.

I'm just not comfortable with Keith Yandle. If it was just Sean Couturier, I could probably talk myself into it, but a package?

I realize Couturier hasn't accomplished enough to make it a 1-for-1 swap, but that's exactly my point: Keith Yandle's a good -- maybe even very good -- player.

But why do the Flyers have to do this deal right now now now now NOW? That's the very definition of selling low: If you have to give a package for Keith Yandle, then what, exactly, is the point of getting younger? You're already assuming significant risk in trading a 6-4, 200-pound center who is polished defensively and only 20 years old. Yandle's under contract for three more years. The Flyers have control of Couturier's rights for another five years, at least.

Even worse to make it happen, Phoenix wants MORE than Couturier? That's asinine. You give more for Shea Weber. You don't give more for Keith Yandle -- my point being, OTHER TEAMS have Keith Yandle! He's not rare -- he's a high-quality offensive defenseman. But he's not unique! Nobody said, "Holy cow, if we get Keith Yandle, we're winning multiple Stanley Cups!"

I'm not saying "never trade Sean Couturier." I'm saying that Sean Couturier-plus for Keith Yandle is asinine.
- AllInForFlyers

Amen! And I personally would not trade Couturier for Yandle straight up.

The value of defensemen is completely out of whack right now. It is. It's one thing to be a good player. But when you start talking multiple, quality assets for one player, then you aren't just a good player. You're a difference maker. You change your entire unit by the minutes you play, the matchups you face.

Is Keith Yandle that guy? Seriously? He isn't even "that guy" in Phoenix -- Oliver Ekman-Larsson is!

The value of defensemen is completely out of whack right now. It is. It's one thing to be a good player. But when you start talking multiple, quality assets for one player, then you aren't just a good player. You're a difference maker. You change your entire unit by the minutes you play, the matchups you face.

Is Keith Yandle that guy? Seriously? He isn't even "that guy" in Phoenix -- Oliver Ekman-Larsson is!
- AllInForFlyers

and cooter isn't "that guy" in philly schenn is

Amen! And I personally would not trade Couturier for Yandle straight up.
- MJL

Me neither.

If we part with Couturier in order to get Yandle, additional assets have to be coming back to Philly.

The value of defensemen is completely out of whack right now. It is. It's one thing to be a good player. But when you start talking multiple, quality assets for one player, then you aren't just a good player. You're a difference maker. You change your entire unit by the minutes you play, the matchups you face.

Is Keith Yandle that guy? Seriously? He isn't even "that guy" in Phoenix -- Oliver Ekman-Larsson is!
- AllInForFlyers

I think you have to really look at the market. I think the situation is that, Phoenix is really not interested in trading Yandle, unless they get a difference making return for the player. So that's why the price is so high for Yandle.

Me neither.

If we part with Couturier in order to get Yandle, additional assets have to be coming back to Philly.
- johndewar

My thought is that I believe that Couturier is going to be a special player. Yandle, although very good, is not. I think Couturier is going to be a player that drives both the offensive and defensive side of the game. While Yandle would most definitely add the skills that the Flyers badly need, to help the possession game. He is still a player that has to be used correctly. Far more offensive starts, and kept away from top lines whenever possible.

My thought is that I believe that Couturier is going to be a special player. Yandle, although very good, is not. I think Couturier is going to be a player that drives both the offensive and defensive side of the game. While Yandle would most definitely add the skills that the Flyers badly need, to help the possession game. He is still a player that has to be used correctly. Far more offensive starts, and kept away from top lines whenever possible.
- MJL

I wouldn't move Schenn or Couturier for Yandle. I would trade Read for Yandle.

My thought is that I believe that Couturier is going to be a special player. Yandle, although very good, is not. I think Couturier is going to be a player that drives both the offensive and defensive side of the game. While Yandle would most definitely add the skills that the Flyers badly need, to help the possession game. He is still a player that has to be used correctly. Far more offensive starts, and kept away from top lines whenever possible.
- MJL

I just don't want to spend my best, young chip on "very good" unless the Flyers are one piece away from the Cup.

This Flyers team is clearly not one piece away from the Cup.

The value of defensemen is completely out of whack right now. It is. It's one thing to be a good player. But when you start talking multiple, quality assets for one player, then you aren't just a good player. You're a difference maker. You change your entire unit by the minutes you play, the matchups you face.

Is Keith Yandle that guy? Seriously? He isn't even "that guy" in Phoenix -- Oliver Ekman-Larsson is!
- AllInForFlyers

It's always been out of whack, at least to some extent.

30 or so years ago, the Flyers were shopping for defensemen. They traded 23 year old Ken Linseman( the first of many "next Bobby Clarkes"), who was the team's leading scorer with 92 points in 79 games, young prospect Greg Adams(who had 19 points in 33 games with the Flyers) plus 1st and 3rd round draft picks for Mark Howe and a 3rd rounder.

At the time, Howe was coming off a serious injury and the worst statistical season of his career. He was also 4 years older than Linseman.

I don't bring that up to suggest that Yandle is a burgeoning Mark Howe. That said, to this point Couturier hasn't shown he'd be Ken Linseman, either. But the cost for all star level defensemen has always been fairly significant.

Even in other deals for defensemen, there's been high prices. Desjardins came with LeClair for a 100 point scorer in Recchi. Kim Johnsson was a component in the Lindros trade. Pronger. Hell, even Brad McCrimmon cost the Flyers a Vezina caliber goalie in Pete Peeters.

and cooter isn't "that guy" in philly schenn is
- 2Real

That's the kind of talk that people in Toronto always put out about Nazem Kadri. It took four years for Kadri to develop, and people always wanted it to be faster faster faster now now NOW.

Again, I'm not saying that you can never move Sean Couturier. I'm just saying that you move a 20-year-old, 6-4 center -- who scored 13 goals as a 19-year-old -- at your peril.

He will develop. We're looking at this all wrong. We shouldn't be looking at it like, "Oh, hey. Sean Couturier didn't do all that much this year."

We should be asking ourselves, "Hey, best case scenario: What does Sean Couturier do at 25 years old, with 20 minutes of ice time per game? At 215 pounds and six seasons of experience?"

If the thought of a 25-year-old Sean Couturier isn't enough to make people stop and seriously think about what we're talking about, I don't know what else to say.

I wouldn't move Schenn or Couturier for Yandle. I would trade Read for Yandle.
- stveshdy

I would have a hard time trade B Schenn for Yandle. I would prefer a more all around player, if I was going to trade B. Schenn. I'd really like to keep Read, but that might be tough to do.

That's the kind of talk that people in Toronto always put out about Nazem Kadri. It took four years for Kadri to develop, and people always wanted it to be faster faster faster now now NOW.

Again, I'm not saying that you can never move Sean Couturier. I'm just saying that you move a 20-year-old, 6-4 center -- who scored 13 goals as a 19-year-old -- at your peril.

He will develop. We're looking at this all wrong. We shouldn't be looking at it like, "Oh, hey. Sean Couturier didn't do all that much this year."

We should be asking ourselves, "Hey, best case scenario: What does Sean Couturier do at 25 years old, with 20 minutes of ice time per game? At 215 pounds and six seasons of experience?"

If the thought of a 25-year-old Sean Couturier isn't enough to make people stop and seriously think about what we're talking about, I don't know what else to say.
- AllInForFlyers

This really doesn't have to be explained to most people.

Here's a link to the actual text of the new CBA

http://www.nhlpa.com/insi...tive-bargaining-agreement

It's a PDF download

This really doesn't have to be explained to most people.

- MJL

Ha! Yeah. Got a little fired up. I just think the price of defensemen right now...it's just ridiculous.

I don't howl too often about players who get traded, because player movement is part of every sport. You have to root for the team, not the individual.

But moving a 20-year-old Sean Couturier...I just think we will live to regret that one. Maybe for as many as 15 years.

That's a long time, HB friends.

Ha! Yeah. Got a little fired up. I just think the price of defensemen right now...it's just ridiculous.

I don't howl too often about players who get traded, because player movement is part of every sport. You have to root for the team, not the individual.

But moving a 20-year-old Sean Couturier...I just think we will live to regret that one. Maybe for as many as 15 years.

That's a long time, HB friends.
- AllInForFlyers

I could not agree more with anything you said. I think he's a special player. One that they should keep. And it would take an OEL for me to be willing to trade him in a deal for a defenseman. Certainly not for Yandle.