But Luongo is better, and three years younger than Vokoun.
- Fosco

I'm not so sure he's better. Did you know Vokoun has a better sv% every year since the lockout except one?

I suspect if Luongo was a Czech playing in Florida, and Vokoun were a Canadian playing in Vancouver, there would be some different sentiments.

I have yet to hear you make a valid point. You don't think you can get a 4th line winger for $1M? Wrong, I just showed you that you can get a bunch of them. You don't think Tanev is worth $1.75M? Fine, what's he worth, cause it's pretty close. You don't think Tanev at $1.75M is worth more than Alberts at $1M? Seriously? Find one other person who thinks Alberts at $1M is a better deal than Tanev at $1.75M.
- KB3Point0

No you showed me that LA can get a bunch of them.

Tanev earned 900k last year, if he gets $1.1-$1.25 he will do well, being his own agent and all.

Your entire plan reeks of sameness. Move out the junk for not much in return and then Gillis will have his pick of FA who will all sign in Vancouver for well below market price.

NYC
- VANTEL

Ahhh, the old New York Clause, "you can not trade me anywhere except the Rangers"

No you showed me that LA can get a bunch of them.

Tanev earned 900k last year, if he gets $1.1-$1.25 he will do well, being his own agent and all.

Your entire plan reeks of sameness. Move out the junk for not much in return and then Gillis will have his pick of FA who will all sign in Vancouver for well below market price.
- 1970vintage

Who will be on the free agent market?
Any big names?

I took issue with your comment about Schroeder's D. He is a good two-way centre who is just now starting to improve offensively after working on his defence for a few seasons.

I read your argument, and see where Vintage is coming from—didn't look to me like he was saying Schroeder was necessarily ideal for 2C, but an option considering the savings in cap over Kesler and the fact that Kesler has lacked any chemistry with his 2nd line wingers to date, which frees up Kesler for another line or possibly a trade.

I would say that I definitely saw flashes of Schroeder's ability to play 2C if he can bring that consistently in the future. Definitely a better play maker than Kesler, and I would argue has better vision.

I haven't seen Schroeder's size to be an issue too much. He's been muscled off the puck on occasions, but that happens to larger less muscular forwards as well.

There's also no rule that says a team's 3C needs to be a monster. I'd rather a 3rd line that can hold their own defensively, has speed, and the ability to score.

Fill up the 4th with a couple monsters.
- Fosco

He made huge strides on his defensive game I was extremely impressed. Kid is continually improving. If we could trade him straight across for Brett Connelly or a Nino I would be happy with that.

Which stats & accomplishments are you referring to? He's been top 3 in GAA ONCE in his career (2nd in 2010/11), and top 3 in Save % ONCE in his career (3rd in 2003/04). Big enough sample size for you?
- DrChristianTroy

You're right. No career accomplishments for him.

2nd in active goalies in wins (will likely finish top 8 or better all time)
2nd in active goalies in shutouts
5th all time in career save %
Olympic Gold Medal - starting goalie
Got to game 7 of Stanley Cup Final with team that scored 8 goals in final round, had 2 shutouts in Finals

Yeah, he's never done anything.

I'm not so sure he's better. Did you know Vokoun has a better sv% every year since the lockout except one?

I suspect if Luongo was a Czech playing in Florida, and Vokoun were a Canadian playing in Vancouver, there would be some different sentiments.
- Dirte

Depends what your definition of "top 6 upside" is.

Perhaps I should have specified that I meant can't miss future top6, like say a B. Schenn, E. Kane, or Couturier. Although I think the Canucks would have to add for Kane.
- Fosco

That I can agree with, but I would consider all of them as top 3 upside. I would trade him straight up for Couturier or Kane and consider it an even trade. B Schenn I haven't seen enough of to make an accurate assessment, but it's probable.

I just want a top 6 forward or 2 but if we have to give the world to get them its a bad idea. All this talk of moving up in the draft is fine and dandy but if its not top 3 pick for Edler no way. Those who say Edler is not worth a top 3 pick have no clue. Imo moving up in the draft is a joke anyhow. Potential is thrown around way to much. I prefer the word Proven. I want proven.
- thundachunk

Edler would not net you a top 3 pick. What he's worth is a different story but what he'll get straight up in terms of picks, nothing in the top 5 and I'm not sure even the top 10.

This. Assuming they are both still on this team come September and no upgrades have been made I hope the new coach gives a serious look to Schroeder as 2C with Kesler on his wing.
- AlexF

I seriously hope that isn't the best option, but I would be willing to try that IF Kesler remains on his wing. Not simply to replace Kesler.

You're right. No career accomplishments for him.

2nd in active goalies in wins (will likely finish top 8 or better all time)
2nd in active goalies in shutouts
5th all time in career save %
Olympic Gold Medal - starting goalie
Got to game 7 of Stanley Cup Final with team that scored 8 goals in final round, had 2 shutouts in Finals

Yeah, he's never done anything.
- KB3Point0

Yeah and according to Dirte Vokoun is better.

Ballard sucks. No one wants a $4M guy that sits in the pressbox.
- Dirte

Ballard will be playing on the 6 spot this year. He wont be bought out. He may be traded but he won't be bought out.

I seriously hope that isn't the best option, but I would be willing to try that IF Kesler remains on his wing. Not simply to replace Kesler.
- KB3Point0

Of course he wouldn't be simply replacing Kesler and my assumption was that the team stayed largely the same. If Kesler was dealt there would obviously be something coming back of significance so it might end up a moot point anyway.

Ballard will be playing on the 6 spot this year. He wont be bought out. He may be traded but he won't be bought out.
- VANTEL

He might have to be bought out if Gillis doesn't do something radical to sort out our cap. We have too many $4m+ defenders as it is.

Edler would not net you a top 3 pick. What he's worth is a different story but what he'll get straight up in terms of picks, nothing in the top 5 and I'm not sure even the top 10.
- AlexF

That is all I was getting at. I want a proven player because in this strange world of hockey potential is worth more than proven. F@cked up.

I would feel confident if he had some size on his wings who were also competent defensively.

I don't think Schroeder is ready for the 2nd line yet, but I feel quite comfortable with him as a 3C, provided he improves his faceoff ability.

I've followed him quite closely the last 4 years, and he's still developing, which is a promising sign, considering he did quite well in his time in the NHL this season...at least in my opinion.
- Fosco

Schroeder as a center here for another year is not a bad thing. I agree he would probably do well as a 3 rd liner as Gaunce spends a year in the AHL

That is all I was getting at. I want a proven player because in this strange world of hockey potential is worth more than proven. F@cked up.
- thundachunk

Yeah I'd agree. But certainly the potential (or at least perception of potential) on this year's draft is that you'll be getting a franchise player in each of the top 5 and maybe beyond depending on who you read.

Of course he wouldn't be simply replacing Kesler and my assumption was that the team stayed largely the same. If Kesler was dealt there would obviously be something coming back of significance so it might end up a moot point anyway.
- AlexF

That was the argument you stepped into. He said Schroeder was a better choice for 2nd line center and we should trade Kesler for a pick. I disagreed.

I seriously hope that isn't the best option, but I would be willing to try that IF Kesler remains on his wing. Not simply to replace Kesler.
- KB3Point0

Having more than one player that can play centre in this league is not a bad idea.

You're right. No career accomplishments for him.

2nd in active goalies in wins (will likely finish top 8 or better all time)
2nd in active goalies in shutouts
5th all time in career save %
Olympic Gold Medal - starting goalie
Got to game 7 of Stanley Cup Final with team that scored 8 goals in final round, had 2 shutouts in Finals

Yeah, he's never done anything.
- KB3Point0

That's a weak list. I could make a list of his headcase episodes & failures that's twice as long.

Also, citing that he's "2nd in active goalies" in a particular category doesn't prove anything except that he's older than the majority of goaltenders at this point in time.

That was the argument you stepped into. He said Schroeder was a better choice for 2nd line center and we should trade Kesler for a pick. I disagreed.
- KB3Point0

I see. Depends what kind of pick.

Yeah I'd agree. But certainly the potential (or at least perception of potential) on this year's draft is that you'll be getting a franchise player in each of the top 5 and maybe beyond depending on who you read.
- AlexF

Fair enough but 1 out of those 5 could be a bust.

Having more than one player that can play centre in this league is not a bad idea.
- thundachunk

I agree, I'm just not a fan of Schroeder yet. He hasn't proven he's ready to produce on a regular basis at the NHL level. He hasn't even proven he can produce occasionally at the NHL level. Granted, his stay here last year was not long, but he had an opportunity and he did absolutely nothing with it. Some players are good AHL players and just not good NHL players. I hope Schroeder develops into a good NHL player, I just don't think he's ready for that next year.

That is all I was getting at. I want a proven player because in this strange world of hockey potential is worth more than proven. F@cked up.
- thundachunk

That totally ignores the cap advantages and contractual advantages that come along with an 18 year old draft pick though.

And those are huge in a salary cap NHL.

Agreed. Picks are just ridiculously overvalued leading up to the draft, and this year even more so because of the strong top 5.
- Fosco

Gillis said today he will be active at the draft.