This is true, but the one thing I'll say about that is this: "We," as in the overall fanbase and/or the media, aren't exactly guiltless in this regard.

In 2010, Boston gave up the ghost to the Flyers in a fashion that has only been done three times in NHL history.

If that had happened in Philadelphia, fans would've stormed Claude Julien's house with torches and pitchforks. Peter Chiarelli, too.

We can't even pretend that wouldn't be the case, because Peter Laviolette -- who has accomplished just as much in his coaching career as Claude Julien now, and had done more than Claude Julien as of 2010...the majority of us want him fired.

We want Paul Holmgren fired.

We believe Scott Hartnell, who has averaged 25-ish goals for his Flyers career, should be traded.

We want Braydon Coburn, who is clearly a Top 4 defenseman with a great cap hit for that role, traded.

As a whole, there have been so many times where the fanbase or media just can't be just patient enough to let any particular set of Flyers key players to fail, grow and succeed together.

Ilya Bryzgalov wasn't wrong when he said that the Philadelphia media, for example, is always looking for a scapegoat and that it's usually the goalie.

Does that mean that Peter Laviolette and Paul Holmgren and Bob Clarke and Ken Hitchcock and John Stevens, etc., are blameless? Of course not. When you don't win, there should always be introspection.

But introspection...it doesn't always have to be firings or trades. Claude Julien didn't get gassed in 2010, got to come back in 2011 and win.

On the other hand, the Peter Laviolette deathwatch is on after one missed season of the playoffs, in a shortened season, when the guy posted a 103-point season just last year.

Philadelphia..it's tough. At times, I don't know if we, as a fanbase, have the patience it requires to win.
- AllInForFlyers

Oh my god my heart was in my throat when I read Coburn has a great cap hit. Everything else ok

Oh my god my heart was in my throat when I read Coburn has a great cap hit. Everything else ok
- Just5

Might as well do yourself a favor and start the 'Coburn CBO Chorus' now.

Ok, im delving into some fantasy world stuff here, but...

Carolina seems to be shopping their 5th pick... so long as they get quality NOW stuff...

What about our 1st, one of Grossmann/Meszy/Coburn, and Read for Justin Faulk and their 1st?
- jak521

Sweet. I'll always approve a deal where we get the 2 best players.

Oh my god my heart was in my throat when I read Coburn has a great cap hit. Everything else ok
- Just5

For how he performed last year, no its not. As a #3 to Grossman as a #4, making a solid shutdown pairing without a total lack of skating ability/puck movement; Coby does have a decent cap hit.

Forced to waive Vaananen and Metropolit before the '09 PO's because he didn't leave enough cap room to activate Briere from IR, the team then proceeded to lose in opening round to Pens partly because they didn't have enough depth,

Chose to draft Mathers instead of Hyka because they thought they could just sign Hyka post-camp as an undrafted UFA... turns out Hyka had to go back into the next draft (woops),

Decided to sign Lilja to a two-year contract on first day of UFA, even though it invoked 35+ status... Lilja spent almost the balance of that 2nd year in the AHL, would have created dead space against the cap as a result if not for CBA rule changes,

Signed Pronger to his back-diving extension not realizing that 35+ status kicked in when the contract came into effect, not when the contract was actually signed (Pronger was still 34 at the time),

Pre-emptively handed Lupul, Carter, Richards and JvR big-$ extensions, and then proceeded to trade all of them shortly thereafter due to (in part) cap concerns,

Didn't leave enough cap room to re-sign Upshall, dealt him for Carcillo(!),

Forced to dump Gagne for worse than nothing (had to take Matt Walker) because he they were desperate to shed salary after previously adding Meszaros and Zherdev(!),

Eminger(!) for a 1st-round draft pick, bye bye Markstrom/Carlson,

Traded for rights of Hamhuis and Nabokov even though indications were strong they wouldn't sign in Philly,

Asked Jagr and Carle to wait while he chased Suter/Parise... not surprisingly, they didn't,

Bryzgalov.



Now, don't get me wrong, I like Homer as GM, but those mistakes are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more I'm missing.

(And... I understand it's in your nature to refute every last one of these, but they're really not up for debate, sorry.)
- Tomahawk

Seriously wish there was a slow clap emoticon

Sweet. I'll always approve a deal where we get the 2 best players.
- Just5

I guess I didnt watch a lot of Hurricanes games last season.. I thought Faulk was in the sameish role as Gusty, but looking into further... obviously not the case.

Edit: I dont mean bouncing back in forth, but fringe top 4 guy

Yeah, clearing the old mess and working from a blank slate, he was great. If they had taken a bit more time at the beginning of the rebuild, instead of rushing to reload, I'm almost positive this team would have won a Cup by now with the quality of players that have gone through here.
- Tomahawk

i dunno. the whole thing is starting to look dysfunctional at this point, however.

that re-boot relying on old dmen and a system goalie in his 30's, along w/ younger forwards was a discordant gamble even before pronger's final injury. the off season last yr was one that would get many GMs fired. the prob is, there isn't a sense that homer is on his last legs as he should be, imo. we'll have to see.

I still disagree completely that Lupul, Carter, Richards, and JVR extensions were mistakes. The cap hits on those players are fair value, in my opinion. That they were traded does not inherently mean they were bad contracts, and that we got the value back that we did tells me they were in fact worth it.
- BulliesPhan87

If they sign Suter or if the Weber thing went through, do they even trade JvR?

For how he performed last year, no its not. As a #3 to Grossman as a #4, making a solid shutdown pairing without a total lack of skating ability/puck movement; Coby does have a decent cap hit.
- GirouxForTheShow

Hes getting paid a premium for a defenseman that contributes little to nothing at the offensive end.

Hahahahaha... I have a picture of him in a wig.

(I won't post it skip so chill)
- mayorofangrytown

Hartnell wig night (I hope)

I thought she sold books or toys or jewelry or spray on tatoos something.
- mayorofangrytown

don't forget master level beer taster

i dunno. the whole thing is starting to look dysfunctional at this point, however.

that re-boot relying on old dmen and a system goalie in his 30's, along w/ younger forwards was a discordant gamble even before pronger's final injury. the off season last yr was one that would get many GMs fired. the prob is, there isn't a sense that homer is on his last legs as he should be, imo. we'll have to see.
- isaiah520

I think if Lavi gets fired mid-season and they miss the playoffs again, I think the owner will probably not like missing out on playoff gate revenues two years in a row.

This one isn't a mistake. Soon to be UFAs don't have the same trade value, and those trades each brought back great value (Pronger's injury not withstanding). The cap was a consideration, but I think you're really mischaracterizing these trades to call them mistakes.

Toclarify, that's not to say I think Holmgren is without error.
- BulliesPhan87

It's not the only one that is misidentified as a mistake. Every GM makes mistakes, including Holmgren. But labeling him as mistake prone implies that he makes more mistakes then moves that aren't mistakes. And that is simply not true in my oponion

I couldn't care less. I'm the kneeling old guy all the way on the right with the glasses. My kid is the blonde in the middle. He doesn't look like that anymore. I do.
- mayorofangrytown

I'm the really good looking one. Also, I still look that way.

If they sign Suter or if the Weber thing went through, do they even trade JvR?
- johndewar

The trade was on June 23rd, before free agency. So yes.

Hes getting paid a premium for a defenseman that contributes little to nothing at the offensive end.
- Just5

I disagree, yes its been a long time since Coby looked like he had boatloads of offensive potential (like he did the year after we obtained him at the TDL, he looked to have a bright offensive future ahead of him). But he skates phenomenally for his size, has a good first pass, and plays well defensively. He struggled last year but played a lot of the time with Gervais. I think he has a bounce back year this year, especially if he is put into the right role.

The trade was on June 23rd, before free agency. So yes.
- BulliesPhan87

Ah, my bad. I thought it was after. Thanks!

It's not the only one that is misidentified as a mistake. Every GM makes mistakes, including Holmgren. But labeling him as mistake prone implies that he makes more mistakes then moves that aren't mistakes. And that is simply not true in my oponion
- MJL

I think you can make a decent case for a lot of the others. They aren't all equally bad, either. On the balance, I don't think he's best described as mistake prone, so much as willing to take risks. Might just be semantics, but that's my take on it.

Ah, my bad. I thought it was after. Thanks!
- johndewar

No probs, to be fair I had to look it up to be sure.

The reasons why they were traded may be varied, but the common thread is that Homer signed them all well in advance of them being FA's, almost always after career-seasons/incredible hot-streaks -- the real mistakes were made at the negotiating table.
- Tomahawk

It will be interesting to see how they do with B Schenn and Couter's next deal.
They did very well extending Claude Giroux and even Coburn (although some may debate this one), and even JvR's deal wasn't horrible.

The next Giroux contract is going to be scary, though.

Hartnell wig night (I hope)
- Marc D

The one and only.

To varying degrees, they're mistakes. Holmgren doesn't own all (perhaps even most) the blame on the Bryzgalov contract, but that's the biggest one in my mind. Other things like Upshall, Metropolit, and Vaananan are things I can stomach, they were details that had to be sanded over getting the best players they could on the roster.
- BulliesPhan87

Look at the end results. Waiving Vannanen and Metropolit allowed the Flyers to bring back Briere, and keep Giroux with the Flyers. They had a choice. They could've sent Giroux back down as he was waiver exempt. They made a choice. And that choice made the Flyers better. So it's incorrect to label those moves a mistake in my opinion.

I disagree, yes its been a long time since Coby looked like he had boatloads of offensive potential (like he did the year after we obtained him at the TDL, he looked to have a bright offensive future ahead of him). But he skates phenomenally for his size, has a good first pass, and plays well defensively. He struggled last year but played a lot of the time with Gervais. I think he has a bounce back year this year, especially if he is put into the right role.
- GirouxForTheShow

How much more do you want a guy to make for what he gives you over the past 4 years? I'm not even talking last year. Of course he'll bounce back I expect him to also, he was horrid last year.

It's a fact he gets paid a premium to bring the game you mentioned to the ice.

I'm the really good looking one. Also, I still look that way.

- BringBack25

So which one of the women were you, I forget?

It will be interesting to see how they do with B Schenn and Couter's next deal.
They did very well extending Claude Giroux and even Coburn (although some may debate this one), and even JvR's deal wasn't horrible.

The next Giroux contract is going to be scary, though.
- Marc D

His contract is going to be big, but I'm not scared of Giroux's payday. What I am scared of is the remote (perhaps nonexistent) possibility we don't keep him. The moment he puts ink to paper (not an offer sheet), I'll breath a sigh of relief.