Duncan Keith has a history of retaliatory hits, so he gets zero leeway from me on his intentions last night:




- bradleyc4

Agreed. Keith is a dirty player. He's an all-star, a superb puck-mover, and is good defensively. But, say what you want, he is a dirty player. He's had NUMEROUS incidents, dating back a couple of seasons...

Now, is Jeff Carter a saint? Hell no. Should he have been penalized on the play? Perhaps... But, I don't care what ANYONE says on this forum, the NHL is trying to clean the game up, bring respect back, etc, and what Keith did was VERY WORTHY of a suspension. What happened if Carter was clipped in the eye? Or was cut on the play and required stitches? At this point, whether you agree or not, it's all about control of your game and emotions and how you react. Keith reacted poorly, as his character shows him to time and time again, and he SHOULD be suspended. I don't give a flying f*ck is you're an all-star, I'm sick of this unequal treatment of players based on their skill or pay-grade.

Ive watched that video a bunch of times and am still trying to figure out when Carter slashed Keith's hand. I saw him flick his stick at Keiths glove right before Keith went all Ilyn Payne on Carters face.

EDIT!!!!!

NM I just saw what you mean when he brings his stick down on the glove..........Hmmm, If I were Keith I may have reacted the same way...but I dont think he intentionally went for Carters face.

McBain failed his first test at becoming anything more than a 3rd pairing guy this past season. When injuries ravaged the Carolina blueline, McBain was given more icetime and responsibility. And he flopped.

It was one shortened season, so it shouldn't make or break his career. But I wouldn't give up a more reliable NHL defenseman to acquire him.

Right now, I don't see how he fits with Gustafsson slated to be the 3rd pairing puckmover.
- bradleyc4

The thing about McBain is that he has the potential to move the puck at an elite level... Gustafsson is no slouch, but McBain's a flat out great outlet and stretch passer.

With him being RH (still a big need) and Gus being LH, there's no reason why they couldn't coexist in the same top-6 group... maybe not as a pairing, but the Flyers have enough big-bodies to really balance it all out.

I just sat down and watched the Keith hit. Carter's chop was definately intentional and a jerk move ala Crosby on Vorachek but with some actual contact on his hand. Keith was an idiot and I think meant to hit him in the shoulder but missed and Jeff Carter hit the ice like he'd been assassinated. Do I think Keith should get suspended? Yup. But if it's for more than 2 or 3 games it's too harsh in play-offs.
1 game for being an idiot, 1 game for head contact and 1 game for being a repeat offender.
Personally I'd be disgusted with Carter if I was an LA fan. Talk about unsportsmanlike...

The thing about McBain is that he has the potential to move the puck at an elite level... Gustafsson is no slouch, but McBain's a flat out great outlet and stretch passer.

With him being RH (still a big need) and Gus being LH, there's no reason why they couldn't coexist in the same top-6 group... maybe not as a pairing, but the Flyers have enough big-bodies to really balance it all out.
- Tomahawk

I just wouldn't feel comfortable having McBain or Gustafsson starting the season in the top-4.

I just sat down and watched the Keith hit. Carter's chop was definately intentional and a jerk move ala Crosby on Vorachek but with some actual contact on his hand. Keith was an idiot and I think meant to hit him in the shoulder but missed and Jeff Carter hit the ice like he'd been assassinated. Do I think Keith should get suspended? Yup. But if it's for more than 2 or 3 games it's too harsh in play-offs.
1 game for being an idiot, 1 game for head contact and 1 game for being a repeat offender.
Personally I'd be disgusted with Carter if I was an LA fan. Talk about unsportsmanlike...
- FlyersGrace

Honestly, if it were me, he'd be gone 5+ EASILY. But, I know the league and its brain-trust will, if they do suspend him, be only 2-3 MAX, like you said.

It just bothers me because Torres gets suspended on a relatively clean hockey check that messed Stoll up for a few games, and Keith does something almost Brashear-style and because he's a star, people are willing to look the other way? THAT is the problem with the NHL.

Maybe he didn't mean to hit him in the face, but he did. If I'm gonna Shanaban it:

1) Keith intentionally swings his stick at an opposing player
2) Keith makes contact with the player's head
3) Keith is a repeat offender

Regardless of where he meant to hit him, he's still responsible for his stick.
- jmatchett383

I agree. Well stated case for a suspension.

Honestly, if it were me, he'd be gone 5+ EASILY. But, I know the league and its brain-trust will, if they do suspend him, be only 2-3 MAX, like you said.

It just bothers me because Torres gets suspended on a relatively clean hockey check that messed Stoll up for a few games, and Keith does something almost Brashear-style and because he's a star, people are willing to look the other way? THAT is the problem with the NHL.
- Flyers_V88

Also, the NHL generally treads lightly with playoff suspensions. They don't give as many games because in theory each game means so much more than a regular season game.

He may be, I honestly haven't seen enough of him. I'm just wary of players who don't get much talk and then go on a tear and get talked up for late season/playoff production (Fernando Pisani, Joel Ward, Ville Leino).
- jmatchett383

Horvat probably more of a the-best-is-yet-to-come kind of case than a small-sample-size-mirage. He's on a deep/balanced team, relegated to mostly a secondary scoring role... its' understandable that he hasn't stuck out like Shinkaruk, who's basically the guy for Medicine Hat.

Horvat’s an exceptional two-way player with high end leadership qualities, so there’s nothing stopping him from having a lot of success in the NHL. He has the upside to be a top-line center but the safe projection is probably an above average second line center.
- Todd Cordell of The Hockey Guys

Anyway, just by reading that scouting report, you know that the Flyers are interested, lol.

I really don't even know what you're arguing here.

None of it was "ok", but it's hypocritical to get in a twist over one thing (Keith's slash) without calling out why it happened (a dangerous slash to an exposed, sensitive body part).

Obviously, you're arguing from a personal POV.
- johndewar

I agree with your basic premise. Neither action is okay. Although I think Carter's action is beinf mischaracterized as a slash to a hand. He simply tried to move the glove away, with little force behind it. Not likely to cause any damage. Still a cheap play nonetheless.

Personally, I don't think Jeff Carter did anything. In the reply I see Carter trying skating around Keith and taps Keith's hand/glove. So what? I can't even tell if Carter did it intentionally or not but so what if he did. Targeting the head for any reason is a no-no. It's world wide news. All the worst press in hockey history has come from some irresponsible player somehow attacking an opposing player's head...
- dingo8urbaby

Agreed. A tap is more accurate description of what Carter did.

I just wouldn't feel comfortable having McBain or Gustafsson starting the season in the top-4.
- bradleyc4

Why both in the top-4?

Timonen - Schenn
Grossmann/Coburn - McBain
Mez/Grossmann - Gus

You don't know if Keith intentionally targeted Carter's head anymore than you know if Carter intentionally "tapped" Keith's hand.
- johndewar

It's clear on the replay that there was little force behind what Carter did.

Why both in the top-4?

Timonen - Schenn
Grossmann/Coburn - McBain
Mez/Grossmann - Gus
- Tomahawk

I said either or, not both.

Sounds like a Plan C to balance out the type of defensemen, if all else fails.

I agree with your basic premise. Neither action is okay. Although I think Carter's action is beinf mischaracterized as a slash to a hand. He simply tried to move the glove away, with little force behind it. Not likely to cause any damage. Still a cheap play nonetheless.
- MJL

Yeah, that's what the video showed. I mean, lets be real, I'm sure Carter was going for a small love-tap in that area (hands/gloves), but nothing vicious or bone-breaking...

Keith just swung carelessly towards Carter's head. That right there is what the beef is over... If it was his legs or torso, you know what, play-on. No penalties, no suspensions, none of this talk. But, because it hit him directly in the mouth and nose area, I don't see how anyone could even remotely rationalize it being ok or not suspension worthy?

I said either or, not both.

Sounds like a Plan C to balance out the type of defensemen, if all else fails.
- bradleyc4

Just curious, what would you hypothalamically give up to get McBain?

I said either or, not both.

Sounds like a Plan C to balance out the type of defensemen, if all else fails.
- bradleyc4

More like plan M.

Why both in the top-4?

Timonen - Schenn
Grossmann/Coburn - McBain
Mez/Grossmann - Gus
- Tomahawk

I would take Gus over McBain anyday. I've also never really liked Jamie Mcbain and to this day find myself befuddled why some people think so highly of him.

I said either or, not both.

Sounds like a Plan C to balance out the type of defensemen, if all else fails.
- bradleyc4

Oops, missed 'or', lol.

McBain's icetime was down this past season (to about 18min/game), but prior to that, he was closer to 20min/game. He pretty much already is an established top-4 NHL defenseman.

Just curious, what would you hypothalamically give up to get McBain?
- Flyers_V88

Not much.

I would take Gus over McBain anyday. I've also never really liked Jamie Mcbain and to this day find myself befuddled why some people think so highly of him.
- mochoson

Kind of in the same boat... Why are we so high on him again? A guy who has never put up any numbers that are worthy of this praise... A guy who is shotty as best defensively... Just curious here... And to the people who are, what are we giving up to get him exactly (hypothetically)?

Not much.
- bradleyc4

Exactly, I wouldn't. But, I also don't think Carolina would let him part for not much lol.

Domi, Horvat, and Shinkaruk (in that order) are three guys I would be ecstatic to grab at #11. All 3 guys are going to be excellent NHLers.

Bill, how do you feel about Mirco Mueller, Robert Hagg, and Nikita Zadorov? Are these solid picks at #11 in your opinion?

I really, really like these 3 dmen. Quite frankly, of the six players mentioned in this post, I think I'd be most happy with Hagg. I think he's gonna be a flat out machine.
- mochoson

Would be interested in one of them in a trade-down scenario.

Kind of in the same boat... Why are we so high on him again? A guy who has never put up any numbers that are worthy of this praise... A guy who is shotty as best defensively... Just curious here... And to the people who are, what are we giving up to get him exactly (hypothetically)?
- Flyers_V88

He's a good, fairly young puck mover. We have one in Gustafsson and we have several more coming up. If he's cheap (think the Luke Pither for Boucher/Alt deal) then sure I'd take him, but I wouldn't give up what Carolina most likely would want for him (thinking at least a top prospect and maybe a bottom-6 forward).

Oops, missed 'or', lol.

McBain's icetime was down this past season (to about 18min/game), but prior to that, he was closer to 20min/game. He pretty much already is an established top-4 NHL defenseman.
- Tomahawk

Carolina has a great blogger who pained a not-so-pretty picture of McBain and his future:

http://www.shutdownline.c...e-zones-jamie-mcbain.html

It's only one person's opinion, but it's one that I trust.