Funny you say that because as I dig deeper through his advanced statistics...

Def. zone FO wins: 105
Def. zone FO losses: 88

Off. zone FO wins: 84
Off. zone FO losses: 99

and it's not overly relevant but he was a hair over 50% on neutral zone faceoffs.

So maybe you do want him taking a d-zone faceoff with 45 seconds left

edit: There actually wasn't a single Islander that had a sub-50% Def. zone FO%
- eichiefs9

I obviously didn't know these stats, but I listed his FO ability in my OP about him because I remembered him winning a lot of important draws.

I obviously didn't know these stats, but I listed his FO ability in my OP about him because I remembered him winning a lot of important draws.
- potvin05

I didn't either, I'm just a stats tool and love the advanced ones. I just started digging through all Fransies numbers.

This.

Just because of something some immature kid said playing for a perennial loser after a another non-playoff year, I'm not holding it against him.

Maybe I'm naive, I think the Pittsburgh series opened these guys' eyes about how important it is to win, and what us fans can be like when they do win, and when they do hustle.

This guy broke his stick into pieces after that deflection. I know, anyone would be pissed to have something like that happen in that spot, but I think that series, that moment can be a watershed moment for him. For all of them.
- potvin05

This interview was during this season potvin and he is not 18 years old. I did not see him break his stick. I hope you are right and this will be a turning point for Frans.

This interview was during this season potvin and he is not 18 years old. I did not see him break his stick. I hope you are right and this will be a turning point for Frans.
- ses111

I think the thing most people forget, is that his talent level isn't as high as the role he's been asked to play in his years on this team.

Now, we have the type of players that can push him back to a more natural role: a 3rd line-defensive type center who kills penalties who, yes, does occassionally score, but, mostly, helps out his linemates.

It should not be expected of him to kill penalties, play against the other team's 1st line, AND score 25-30 goals. He's not a natural goal scorer; he's been asked to be a big producer on a roster that's been hurting for goals, and....that's just not his game.

And, again, playing for a team that hadn't so much as sniffed a playoff spot in 6 years, would be frustrating, and this team didn't pick up it's game until about 25 games in.

C'mon, that's bullpoop. That was unfortunate. That poop happens in this sport all the time.
- potvin05

You're right but game 6 still burns me and Fran's not being a favorite of mine did not help.

I think the thing most people forget, is that his talent level isn't as high as the role he's been asked to play in his years on this team.

Now, we have the type of players that can push him back to a more natural role: a 3rd line-defensive type center who kills penalties who, yes, does occassionally score, but, mostly, helps out his linemates.

It should not be expected of him to kill penalties, play against the other team's 1st line, AND score 25-30 goals. He's not a natural goal scorer; he's been asked to be a big producer on a roster that's been hurting for goals, and....that's just not his game.

And, again, playing for a team that hadn't so much as sniffed a playoff spot in 6 years, would be frustrating, and this team didn't pick up it's game until about 25 games in.
- potvin05

I think when people see the skating and puck handling and shootout moves they will expect more numbers right or wrong. I just think his comments and laughing on the bench have not done him any favors. I leave Fran's alone for a while and hope for the best.

I think when people see the skating and puck handling and shootout moves they will expect more numbers right or wrong. I just think his comments and laughing on the bench have not done him any favors. I leave Fran's alone for a while and hope for the best.
- ses111

Listen man. If the right trade popped up to Snow and the other team wanted Nielsen, then c'est la vie. He certainly isn't a deal breaker.

I'm just saying, I certainly wouldn't be upset if he still were here, just in a more appropriate role. Maybe it's my age, I just don't read too much into the stuff you're mentioning. Unless it's a perpetual thing, then there's a problem.

I want Clarkson.

I think Snow makes a run at him. He's not stupid. He knows he needs a player like him. He's watched Clarkson right up close and personal plenty of times. He is EXACTLY what this team needs. He will cost money, but he ultimately would be a gigantic contributor and not a detriment to the cap in the upcoming years.




Can you tell I want Clarkson?
- potvin05

The NJ papers said he is a so-so skater...which means he won't fit in with Islanders uptempo style...With Clarkson you could have another Brad Boyes with a bigger contract...

Say what you will: winning teams have a player like Frans Nielsen on their roster. He is a faceoff guy, a penalty killer, a 40 point scorer, is a good defensive center, scores more often than not in the shootout.

Guys like him play the third line. Guys like him should not be asked to play the type of role he's been asked to play on this team. Guys like him should not be expected to score more than 20 goals.

He should be on the third line next season. Period.
- potvin05

Frans shouldn't be traded. Period, hes the perfect third line center. Teams pay good money and search high and low for players like Frans. Why trade him? Because we have lots of center prospects? Prospects who may never develop jnto what Frans currently is?

The NJ papers said he is a so-so skater...which means he won't fit in with Islanders uptempo style...With Clarkson you could have another Brad Boyes with a bigger contract...
- kear20

David Clarkson and Brad Boyes couldn't be more different. Boyes doesn't have a fraction of the heart, leadership or toughness of Clarkson. The one thing that worries me about Clarkson is his penchant for getting injured.

I want Clarkson.

I think Snow makes a run at him. He's not stupid. He knows he needs a player like him. He's watched Clarkson right up close and personal plenty of times. He is EXACTLY what this team needs. He will cost money, but he ultimately would be a gigantic contributor and not a detriment to the cap in the upcoming years.




Can you tell I want Clarkson?
- potvin05

not gonna happen..he's staying in new jersey...

Sorry but he was real important to Pitt in game 6. To me he is just not a winning player and never seems to make the big play to earn a win and is way too comfortable being a third line guy.
- ses111

that is what he is.. a third line, shut down, defensive forward!

XxNYIxX

that is what he is.. a third line, shut down, defensive forward!

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

Are we talking about Frans here?
I think we have a bit of Blake Comeauism with Frans, in that our team has been subpar for so long, that generally average players start to be held in a higher regard than they probably deserve. In no way would I ever describe Frans as a shutdown player at all. In fact, Frans lacks the physicality to be an effective defensive forward (IMO). This tends to have been the problem with a lot of players we've had over the last several years, in that they possess very good skillsets at certain facets of the game but fail to be complete players for the roles they're given.
While it's fair to say that Frans has been put in a position above his head by playing second line minutes, I'd also say that I have very little confidence in matching him up against any teams top line if their center is bigger than 6'1". He's simply too easily overwhelmed physically and therefore CANNOT be called a shutdown defensive player. I think Frans can be described in a similar fashion to Streit. Good fundamental hockey skills (hands, skating, vision) but lacks tenacity and intensity. Some may have forgotten when the Isles went through a big loss earlier this season, the pi$$ed off comments we had here from people who saw Frans chuckling on the bench like it was no big deal. I'm not questioning his character, but I do think he lacks the intensity to be a 'dirty line' player as well.

Overall, I'm interested in seeing how he works out in a third line role, but I'd rather put Cizikas on another teams top center than Frans by a mile.


Xxkeaner17xX

not gonna happen..he's staying in new jersey...
- NYI78

Not so sure about that? If he's testing FA then it's far from written in stone.

one too many? Isles are like Hoarders 3 goalies, 8 d-men... just another day on L.I. or in this case BP

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

OK, you're not wrong in saying that but it definitely makes it much more plausible(my theory)then if they didn't sign him.

Not so sure about that? If he's testing FA then it's far from written in stone.
- Cptmjl

Not to mention given New Jersey's financial issues, they may be less inclined to give an over the top offer to keep him. Lou is dealing with an "I told you so" situation with his ownership over the Kovalchuk fleecing and is most certainly trying to return to fiscal responsibility..

Xxkeaner17xX

David Clarkson and Brad Boyes couldn't be more different. Boyes doesn't have a fraction of the heart, leadership or toughness of Clarkson. The one thing that worries me about Clarkson is his penchant for getting injured.
- potvin05

Clarkson would be a good get, but I think Snow's focus has to be on the blueline. You can't just replace Streit with Donovan/de Haan and call it a day. The "D" was exposed by Pitt in the playoffs. You see what Boston is able to do with a deep "D" against Pitt's forwards. The Isles need a top pair, physical, mobile defensive d-man to compete in this division. They can wait to see if Mayfield, Reinhart, etc. develop into that, but that won't happen for years. If they want to contend now, they need to fill that spot this summer.

With all the kids coming up at forward, I could live with not signing a UFA forward (even though the team is screaming for a top line RW). I don't know who's available, but the Isles could use a guy like Brooks Orpik (I know he's not available). If they could land a guy like that to put on the top pair with Vis and let Hamonic and A-Mac be the second pair, you can then have Strait and either Donovan/Hickey/Carkner round out the "D". The team would be much better off.

Are we talking about Frans here?
I think we have a bit of Blake Comeauism with Frans, in that our team has been subpar for so long, that generally average players start to be held in a higher regard than they probably deserve. In no way would I ever describe Frans as a shutdown player at all. In fact, Frans lacks the physicality to be an effective defensive forward (IMO). This tends to have been the problem with a lot of players we've had over the last several years, in that they possess very good skillsets at certain facets of the game but fail to be complete players for the roles they're given.
While it's fair to say that Frans has been put in a position above his head by playing second line minutes, I'd also say that I have very little confidence in matching him up against any teams top line if their center is bigger than 6'1". He's simply too easily overwhelmed physically and therefore CANNOT be called a shutdown defensive player. I think Frans can be described in a similar fashion to Streit. Good fundamental hockey skills (hands, skating, vision) but lacks tenacity and intensity. Some may have forgotten when the Isles went through a big loss earlier this season, the pi$$ed off comments we had here from people who saw Frans chuckling on the bench like it was no big deal. I'm not questioning his character, but I do think he lacks the intensity to be a 'dirty line' player as well.

Overall, I'm interested in seeing how he works out in a third line role, but I'd rather put Cizikas on another teams top center than Frans by a mile.


Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

WHAT?

You do realize he was a finalist for the SELKE right? On a non playoff, dismal team.. that is almost unheard of.

Infact.. ill add... he was one of the more feared Defensive forwards in the league... until Cappy became coach


XxNYIxX

Are we talking about Frans here?
I think we have a bit of Blake Comeauism with Frans, in that our team has been subpar for so long, that generally average players start to be held in a higher regard than they probably deserve. In no way would I ever describe Frans as a shutdown player at all. In fact, Frans lacks the physicality to be an effective defensive forward (IMO). This tends to have been the problem with a lot of players we've had over the last several years, in that they possess very good skillsets at certain facets of the game but fail to be complete players for the roles they're given.
While it's fair to say that Frans has been put in a position above his head by playing second line minutes, I'd also say that I have very little confidence in matching him up against any teams top line if their center is bigger than 6'1". He's simply too easily overwhelmed physically and therefore CANNOT be called a shutdown defensive player. I think Frans can be described in a similar fashion to Streit. Good fundamental hockey skills (hands, skating, vision) but lacks tenacity and intensity. Some may have forgotten when the Isles went through a big loss earlier this season, the pi$$ed off comments we had here from people who saw Frans chuckling on the bench like it was no big deal. I'm not questioning his character, but I do think he lacks the intensity to be a 'dirty line' player as well.

Overall, I'm interested in seeing how he works out in a third line role, but I'd rather put Cizikas on another teams top center than Frans by a mile.


Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

I think you're right about average players being held in a high regard just bcs of circumsatnce. It's all relative really. Put him on an ECHL or AHL team he's a first liner or even an extremely thin Islanders squad he's a second liner. As far as his physicality preventing him from being a shut down kind of player I agree to an extent probably more due to the fact that I prefer physical players for the most part and that attribute is effective when a player is in that role. With that said there are players that aren't overly physical and play the role of a defensive player really well with just their "hockey smarts" and I think Nielsen at times during his stay here has been effective doing this. Lidstrom and Kenny Jonnson are two players that come to mind that are good examples. I know Frans hasn't been as effective as those two but he has had his moments. The last couple seasons(barring the end of last)he hasn't been as effective but still has been decent to good just not as consistent. I think him also being thrust into a role that doesn't suit him has had a negative effect on his play.
With Strome and eventually Nelson coming up I think we are going to see some changes with this club and Nielsen can be one of those changes? Cizikas plays his role well and has been effective so he's not moving(he better not be). Hopefully Nielsen plays on the third line where he belongs and his play benefits from it? We shall see how this offseason plays out?

I think you're right about average players being held in a high regard just bcs of circumsatnce. It's all relative really. Put him on an ECHL or AHL team he's a first liner or even an extremely thin Islanders squad he's a second liner. As far as his physicality preventing him from being a shut down kind of player I agree to an extent probably more due to the fact that I prefer physical players for the most part and that attribute is effective when a player is in that role. With that said there are players that aren't overly physical and play the role of a defensive player really well with just their "hockey smarts" and I think Nielsen at times during his stay here has been effective doing this. Lidstrom and Kenny Jonnson are two players that come to mind that are good examples. I know Frans hasn't been as effective as those two but he has had his moments. The last couple seasons(barring the end of last)he hasn't been as effective but still has been decent to good just not as consistent. I think him also being thrust into a role that doesn't suit him has had a negative effect on his play.
With Strome and eventually Nelson coming up I think we are going to see some changes with this club and Nielsen can be one of those changes? Cizikas plays his role well and has been effective so he's not moving(he better not be). Hopefully Nielsen plays on the third line where he belongs and his play benefits from it? We shall see how this offseason plays out?
- Cptmjl

average player my @ss!
Ask the dallas stars how important Jere Lehtinen was to them, he didnt put up big numbers (his numbers are almost identical to Frans) he wasnt physical, he wasnt big, but like Frans he was fantastic at his job.
Just because someone is a bottom 6 forward does not men they can be replaced by any old player. Players have roles and responsibilities out on the ice and there is no one on the Isles or in their system that comes close to Frans for the job he is best suited third line center.

Plus I gotta ask, how are KJ or Lidstrom (defensemen) good examples when talking about a forward?

XxNYIxX

I agree. I always knew he was a douche but I didn't realize how good of a player he is as well until this years playoffs
- Vukota

you should have watched last years playoffs...

WHAT?

You do realize he was a finalist for the SELKE right? On a non playoff, dismal team.. that is almost unheard of.

Infact.. ill add... he was one of the more feared Defensive forwards in the league... until Cappy became coach


XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

That's great...and Blake scored 40 goals here. DiPietro made the all star team. Yes, I realize he was a Selke finalist however unlike so many who proclaim Frans as some vastly underrated player, I think it may be (albeit slightly) a bit to the contrary. Certainly I don't think based on what I've seen from him this season that he should be in the mix for the Selke. As I said, if the other teams center is bigger than 6'1", I don't want Frans matched up with him.

Nnkeaner17oO

That's great...and Blake scored 40 goals here. DiPietro made the all star team. Yes, I realize he was a Selke finalist however unlike so many who proclaim Frans as some vastly underrated player, I think it may be (albeit slightly) a bit to the contrary. Certainly I don't think based on what I've seen from him this season that he should be in the mix for the Selke. As I said, if the other teams center is bigger than 6'1", I don't want Frans matched up with him.

Nnkeaner17oO
- keaner17

But you are saying that with him playing the last 2+ seasons as their second line center... not the Third line where he belongs.

Trust me you wouldn't love what JT brings to the team either if he was on the checking line each night.

XxNYIxX

I hate to burst everyone's bubbles, but how can you guys just hand this big of a role to Strome or Nelson this quickly? We're coming off a playoff season, we need to add some veterans to this team. I'm all for spending some money on David Clarkson. He is exactly what this team needs. Him, Martin and Cizikas...3 guys who can grind with anyone AND score?? Yes please.

I expect Nino to make this team. I think he is ready. At least, he should be given a realistic shot at making the top line. I don't see Strome or Nelson ready yet, but I don't see them play even a fraction of what some of you more informed posters do. I'd rather see more experience (and not Reasoners and Pandolfos) added. We have 12 forwards already. I'd love to see Clarkson, a goalie (I'd love Halak) and a top 4 defenseman.
- potvin05

I don't know about Strome because I only saw him play those last couple of games in Bridgeport, but I did watch Nelson quite a bit and I think he deserves a legit shot to make it in camp. Took some really big strides in BPort last season, and if he's not ready for the NHL yet, he's very close. That one game he had in the playoffs somewhat eased my biggest concern with him...he plays a direct style and because he looks a little wiry I thought he might have trouble translating that style from the AHL to the NHL at this stage, because players are bigger and stronger. But he stepped into a pretty physical game at a very intense time of the season, and while he didn't light the world on fire, he did hold up physically, shrugging off some hits and not flopping around.

He's also older than both Strome and Nino, so he's likely physically a little more developed, and unlike Strome, he has a full pro season in the AHL under his belt...a successful one, too, where he finished with more points and just three fewer goals than Nino in eight fewer games played. He plays a better two-way game than Nino and perhaps Strome (I know very little about Strome's defensive game), so he'd be able to step into a traditional third-line role and build from there.

So, there's my pitch for Nelson on the NYI next season. Folks are all about Strome, but maybe he's the one to start the season in Bridgeport to see how he stacks up physically against pros.

((UIF))

But you are saying that with him playing the last 2+ seasons as their second line center... not the Third line where he belongs.

Trust me you wouldn't love what JT brings to the team either if he was on the checking line each night.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

Correct, but we're not proclaiming JT to be a defensive forward. I'm not just jumping on Frans for the sake of doing so. I've been VERY unimpressed with his 5x5 performance over the last season and half. Too many times I've seen other teams score in our zone because he refused to tie that player up, rather choosing to take the Streit poke check approach.
This is my point, Frans is a very sound player when it comes to defensive instinct (positioning etc) but he also tends to shy away from every physical aspect of the game. In my book a solid defensive forward needs to be able to do everything and anything to slow the other teams top forwards down. I don't see that with Frans at this point. Is it because he's playing second line minutes? Maybe, though i doubt it. I think he simply lacks the physical element to his game and it reduces him to finess play offensively and defensively.

I'm not saying he needs to be cast aside, but I do think he's held in a higher regard here than he probably deserves. Again, given the choice, I'm putting Cizikas on Crosby or Nash rather than Frans.

Xxkeaner17xX