In all seriousness, do we know the extent (or lack thereof) that the Flyers use advanced statistics?

Has Holmgren ever even been asked?
- johndewar

They've probably brought a consultant or two in... most NHL teams have a small group of analytics geeks that work for them part-time... some (like Boston and Vancouver) have said openly that they use non-standard metrics as a tool in player evaluation.

In all seriousness, do we know the extent (or lack thereof) that the Flyers use advanced statistics?

Has Holmgren ever even been asked?
- johndewar

They probably just draft on goals, hits, and fights.

They probably just draft on goals, hits, and fights.
- jmatchett383

(goals + fights) / hits

They probably just draft on goals, hits, and fights.
- jmatchett383

Don't forget takeaways/giveaways. Such a reliable stat.

They've probably brought a consultant or two in... most NHL teams have a small group of analytics geeks that work for them part-time... some (like Boston and Vancouver) have said openly that they use non-standard metrics as a tool in player evaluation.
- Tomahawk

EDM too.

They've probably brought a consultant or two in... most NHL teams have a small group of analytics geeks that work for them part-time... some (like Boston and Vancouver) have said openly that they use non-standard metrics as a tool in player evaluation.
- Tomahawk

There are teams in sports that use statistics that proprietary in nature and are not accessible in the public domain. I think I read that the Houston Rockets fall into that category.

I didn't mean it like I was picking on that particular post; I was just curious if anyone knew of Homer (or anyone in the Flyers org) being asked that question.

I'm a little biased with this.....I think sports teams that don't have an understanding of statistics are going to fail more consistently going forward than teams that don't.

And by "understanding", I don't mean blindly use statistics to make decisions. I would like to think advanced statistics are part of the conversation; not the end of the conversation.

Seriously.

When I saw the post with "skate on the front" I was confused. I've been around the block a few times and for the life of me couldn't recall them having a skate logo so off to Google I went. I found a "history of the Canucks' uniform" site and lo-and-behold they described the skate logo. I looked at the pic and was dumbstruck.


- Scoob

you do realize their original/current throwback stick/rink logo is a C, right?

you do realize their original/current throwback stick/rink logo is a C, right?
- hammarby31

Hardy har har har. Of course.

That other logo just took on a new level of horridness to me.




A skate? Really? Flippin' awful.

And you made an earlier post, stating that Couturier is a pretty special defensive player. And in this post, you're stating that he has been average-weak competition for the most part, for the balance of his career.
- MJL

Here's what's confusing you: defensive acumen is not reflected in the QualComp calculation... QualComp only looks at aggregated offensive potency of the opposition while a certain player is on the ice.

QualComp alone would seem to show that Couturier's an easy mark. However, once you figure in the other various metrics, you begin to get a better picture of the type of player he is and how Lavi chose to use him.

The bottom line in my opinion, that for some, the advanced stats are way overused and relied upon. And given more weight then actually watching the game, and the players play. Some of it is very useful. But a lot of is just flawed math formulas that tell lies.
- MJL

Unless you are able to watch every game, track every player on the ice at the same time (especially the off-camera, behind the play stuff), for every team in the NHL, you're going to need stats.

How do you know that Stamkos has been the most prolific goal-scorer since 2008? The stats told you that. You didn't need to watch him score every single goal in person, you didn't even need to see him score a single goal at all, all you have to do is look it up.

There's really no difference between traditional and advanced stats. All advanced stats are built on observable events (shots, blocked shots, missed shots, goals) and culled from the official NHL.com game reports.

It's not really that mysterious and threatening... it's just new.

Hardy har har har. Of course.

That other logo just took on a new level of horridness to me.




A skate? Really? Flippin' awful.
- Scoob

it is pretty hideous, but i like it for some reason.

Here's what's confusing you: defensive acumen is not reflected in the QualComp calculation... QualComp only looks at aggregated offensive potency of the opposition while a certain player is on the ice.

QualComp alone would seem to show that Couturier's an easy mark. However, once you figure in the other various metrics, you begin to get a better picture of the type of player he is and how Lavi chose to use him.




Unless you are able to watch every game, track every player on the ice at the same time (especially the off-camera, behind the play stuff), for every team in the NHL, you're going to need stats.

How do you know that Stamkos has been the most prolific goal-scorer since 2008? The stats told you that. You didn't need to watch him score every single goal in person, you didn't even need to see him score a single goal at all, all you have to do is look it up.

There's really no difference between traditional and advanced stats. All advanced stats are built on observable events (shots, blocked shots, missed shots, goals) and culled from the official NHL.com game reports.

It's not really that mysterious and threatening... it's just new.
- Tomahawk

It's witchcraft. Take your cauldron of lies elsewhere.

it is pretty hideous, but i like it for some reason.
- hammarby31

Because it's so "80's".

Nothing earth-shaking here (since it's been speculated before) and it's only the writer's own prediction but Friedman's new 30 Thoughts column suggests the Flyers are considering targeting RFA defensemen this offseason: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/...rate-for-inspiration.html
- bmeltzer

Awesome. Opposing GM's can let Holmgren twist in the wind for a week, only to match, while the parade goes by.

The Weber offer sheet worked out tremendously. Well not so much, but at least the alternative plans were fool proof.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/bl...8202&navid=nhl%3Atopheads

wouldn't it be great if the flyers drafted him and we went on to torture the devils for 20 years?

he's got some growing to do at only 5'10 if he wants a legit chance to make it. at 18, not so sure now much taller he'll get if at all.

There are teams in sports that use statistics that proprietary in nature and are not accessible in the public domain. I think I read that the Houston Rockets fall into that category.
- johndewar

Yeah, a lot of it is hush hush because teams are trying to protect their competitive advantages.

I'm a little biased with this.....I think sports teams that don't have an understanding of statistics are going to fail more consistently going forward than teams that don't.
- johndewar

Yeah, it'll be like in-depth European scouting was two decades ago... most teams will initially regard it as a waste of resources... the earliest adopters will gain huge advantages until the rest of the league catches on. Soon, you won't find a single NHL team that doesn't do it.

Don't forget takeaways/giveaways. Such a reliable stat.
- bradleyc4

(takeaways * (goals + fights) / (hits - giveaways )) * +/-

Hardy har har har. Of course.

That other logo just took on a new level of horridness to me.




A skate? Really? Flippin' awful.
- Scoob

I LOVE that logo, and will continue to do so no matter how much y'all rip on it.

Here's what's confusing you: defensive acumen is not reflected in the QualComp calculation... QualComp
- Tomahawk[url]only looks at aggregated offensive potency of the opposition while a certain player is on the ice.

QualComp alone would seem to show that Couturier's an easy mark. However, once you figure in the other various metrics, you begin to get a better picture of the type of player he is and how Lavi chose to use him.




Unless you are able to watch every game, track every player on the ice at the same time (especially the off-camera, behind the play stuff), for every team in the NHL, you're going to need stats.

How do you know that Stamkos has been the most prolific goal-scorer since 2008? The stats told you that. You didn't need to watch him score every single goal in person, you didn't even need to see him score a single goal at all, all you have to do is look it up.

There's really no difference between traditional and advanced stats. All advanced stats are built on observable events (shots, blocked shots, missed shots, goals) and culled from the official NHL.com game reports.

It's not really that mysterious and threatening... it's just new.

This. It's just a tool, a metric. It's no different or more flawed than looking at a secondary assist as useful when a guy dumped a puck into a corner from the blue line and went to the bench, the first man in beat the defender to the puck and dumped it blindly into the slot, where it then hit Steven Stamkos in the skate and went in.

The assist is credited, and it is a legitimate statistic. But what if the guy who dumped the puck in was Dave Babych? How accurate, really, was that assist in assessing Babych's ability to move the puck or produce offense?

Again, advanced stats are just metrics that attempt to give context to existing statistics, not replace them.

Yeah, a lot of it is hush hush because teams are trying to protect their competitive advantages.




Yeah, it'll be like in-depth European scouting was two decades ago... most teams will initially regard it as a waste of resources... the earliest adopters will gain huge advantages until the rest of the league catches on. Soon, you won't find a single NHL team that doesn't do it.
- Tomahawk

There will always be a need for better statistics, not necessarily more statistics. The teams that can differentiate between what is relevant and what isnt will have an advantage.

They've probably brought a consultant or two in... most NHL teams have a small group of analytics geeks that work for them part-time... some (like Boston and Vancouver) have said openly that they use non-standard metrics as a tool in player evaluation.
- Tomahawk

It worked in moneyball

It's witchcraft. Take your cauldron of lies elsewhere.
- bradleyc4

There will always be a need for better statistics, not necessarily more statistics. The teams that can differentiate between what is relevant and what isnt will have an advantage.
- Doc_Sarcasm

Indeed.

There will always be a need for better statistics, not necessarily more statistics. The teams that can differentiate between what is relevant and what isnt will have an advantage.
- Doc_Sarcasm

Are there any stats that aren't shown on the NHL website that are important to consider? I know takeaways, giveaways, and fights are 3 stats I'd like to see them put up.

They've been doing that since game 1. Boston just runs them back.
- mayorofangrytown

And they're bigger and better at it.

It worked in moneyball
- JAKEw1234

I'm a huge fan of Michael Lewis. Liar's Poker is probably my favorite non-fiction book of all time. Moneyball is good, but I think it is frequently misunderstood, and its lessons are misapplied.