Jon?.......ummmm no.

- MBFlyerfan

no man, he is coming back...you must believe...why else the whole prologue thing about varamyr warging after death?

Honestly, from around the 8th spot all the way down to 17-20, you're going to get similar quality, according to most draftnicks. There's not likely to be a huge difference between a guy you'd get at 11 and 14.

I'd definitely wait and see how the draft proceeded before pulling the trigger. Maybe a kid like Monahan or Lindholm drops to 11, when they should be going around 6 or 7, is there and you can take them.

But if that doesn't happen, trade down if you can and stockpile picks
- Jsaquella

Draft wise I agree. I've now heard more than one draft person that I respect say that there may be players taken early in the second round that will be just as good as prospects taken at 9 and after.

I first heard that the top 3 were superstars and through 8 were perennial all-stars than up to 35 were top prospects but I've seen so much shuffling in the last month it's hard to keep track.

My thoughts right now are the top 40 are all good so get as many as possible with out sacrificing too much. If you can get to the top 5 do it. If not... gorge yourself on what's left.

RT + LS = JS
- Tomahawk

it is known

Thought I'd share a hypothetical with you guys. Not saying this could, should, or would happen. I was just thinking about it, and wanted to know if ay of you guys could get behind the idea.

1 (The one many probably won't agree with)) Trade B Schenn, Read, and our 1st for Tampa's 3rd pick in order to pick Nichushkin. If there's a future Malkin in the mix in this draft, and he's obtainable in a manageable way, I don't see why not to go for the reach up.
2) Trade Hartnell + Cousins + not 1st round picks for Edler.
3) Buy out Briere, and Bryz.
4)Trade Mezaros for picks (Maybe some sort of bigger package can be worked so we can get a 1st round pick back and possibly get Pulock despite having traded our #11.) I realize we'd have to add quite a bit to Mezaros to get a top 15 pick.
5)Sign Evgeni Nabokov (Or any UFA goalie, really) to a short term, $3 mil max deal. It's a more manageable contract for an equal production. A veteran tendy who understands his roll would be best above all. Someone that can help Mason improve his game.
6)Sign David Clarkson to a BIG 1 year deal. It will be a Semin-esque scenario. Get him here for 1 year on $5-$6 mil, then after the 1 year deal, if we decide he's a good fit, we can sign him to a longer, more manageable cap hit contract. Clarkson can replace some of the things that we would lose by trading Hartnell.
7)Try to fill out the bottom 6 with the remaining cap hit with good roll playing veterans to fill out the PK and add alittle grit. This is where you have your Antropovs or Zubruses.

By the end of this theoretical, our roster would look something like meh:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valeri Nichushkin ($1.500m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
David Clarkson ($6.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Dainius Zubrus ($3.500m) / Scott Laughton ($1.107m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Adam Hall ($0.650m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Alexander Edler ($5.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($1.500m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
Evgeni Nabokov ($3.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,523,095; BONUSES: $450,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $226,905

And after next year we would have up to $12 mil coming off the books in order to resign G and Coots. With this theoretical we get bigger, improve our defense, don't necessarily hurt our PK, don't really dismantle our youth core, just "tweak" iit, and get rid of big, burdening contracts. I anticipate that many of you will think "B Schenn + Read + our 1st might not get Tampa's 1st." In that case, we tweak it, maybe add a juicy prospect like Lauridsen, or maybe some more picks. Besides for that, any thoughts?

The single-worst trade the Flyers have made in the modern era was Patrick Sharp/Eric Meloche for Matt Ellison and a pick.

Not because Sharp went on to score 40 goals in a season. That's hindsight, because if anybody knew he was a 40-goal scorer, he would never have been traded by anyone.

But it was horrific because Sharp could clearly skate, shoot and score, and Bob Clarke admitted he traded him because Ken Hitchcock simply wouldn't play him as a young player.
- AllInForFlyers

If Sharpie had been a 1st-round pick, they would have never let him go that soon.

With that said, Lavi still leaned heavily on Couturier in defensive situations and on the PK. He probably could have probably stuck with Couturier on the 2nd-line a bit longer to start the year, but I think all of our offensive expectations were a bit out of whack for a 19-year-old.

I'm nor worried that Homer would trade him b/c Lavi didn't give him ample offensive icetime... I'd be more worried that Snider comes in with another mandate and Homer will have to peddle Couturier away to make it happen.

...
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS

David Clarkson ($6.000m) /
Dainius Zubrus ($3.500m) /
...Besides for that, any thoughts?
- JAKEw1234

If we are getting all these recycled Devils, you should go for Elias too.

I don't think there's a specific age, really. I'd say that at 25 you have a much better idea than at 21, for sure. But there's still exceptions.

Montreal traded John LeClair at age 25. The Flyers traded Patrick Sharp at 24.
- Jsaquella

It was sarcasm. No-one knows anything for sure, but other then Sharp, I cant remember the Flyers making a trade where the other player turned into an all-star... Williams, Zubrus, and Fedotenko surely arent. Nice players, but we aren't kicking ourselves. Maybe, Bob, time will tell, but there was a legit reason for that as well.

Any thoughts on maybe just trading some roster players for 1st and or 2nd round picks? This team not remotely close to challenging for a cup for a Few yEars at least. With draft so deep in top 3 rounds might be worth stock piling some talent.

If Sharpie had been a 1st-round pick, they would have never let him go that soon.

With that said, Lavi still leaned heavily on Couturier in defensive situations and on the PK. He probably could have probably stuck with Couturier on the 2nd-line a bit longer to start the year, but I think all of our offensive expectations were a bit out of whack for a 19-year-old.

I'm nor worried that Homer would trade him b/c Lavi didn't give him ample offensive icetime... I'd be more worried that Snider comes in with another mandate and Homer will have to peddle Couturier away to make it happen.
- Tomahawk

I wouldn't worry about Snider too much. In the last 25 years I remember him mucking about three times. Once he got fined for ref bashing. The second time he stopped the coaching carousel ( a good thing ) and then with the goalie acquisition which cracked us all in the head a little.

He doesn't slam his fists and make demands that often. He is getting older so that all may be moot.

And I hate the guy.

If you have evidence that the 'Nucks would be willing to peddle him at a bargain rate, please do share.

Otherwise, as Jsaq said above, the price is assumed to be uncomfortably high.
- Tomahawk

I didn't say that they would peddle him at a bargain rate. Do you have evidence that they would want a Pronger-esque return? If so, please do share.

The price will undoubtedly not be cheap. But you have to give to get.

Any thoughts on maybe just trading some roster players for 1st and or 2nd round picks? This team not remotely close to challenging for a cup for a Few yEars at least. With draft so deep in top 3 rounds might be worth stock piling some talent.
- SMS4016

Who do you have in mind?

i think the price, especially for the type of quality that people want, is always going to be pretty damn high, just simply due to the lack of supply
- stayinthefnnet

No question about it.

Haha, no, it's a theory on who his real parents were. Don't click if you don't like spoilers.
- Tomahawk

If that's the case, Eddard could have just told Cat so that she wouldn't hate Jon.

It was sarcasm. No-one knows anything for sure, but other then Sharp, I cant remember the Flyers making a trade where the other player turned into an all-star... Williams, Zubrus, and Fedotenko surely arent. Nice players, but we aren't kicking ourselves. Maybe, Bob, time will tell, but there was a legit reason for that as well.
- youarewrong

Yes, Williams who consistently scores 20+ goals when he is healthy and has won two Stanley Cups, while being a key contributor on both teams. JvR and Lupul played solidly for their new teams. Steve Downie has played well when he's been healthy.

Even though they got younger in trading Carter and Richards doesn't mitigate the fact that they were closer to the Stanley Cup when those guys left than they are now-and both own Stanley Cup rings now.

Thought I'd share a hypothetical with you guys. Not saying this could, should, or would happen. I was just thinking about it, and wanted to know if ay of you guys could get behind the idea.

1 (The one many probably won't agree with)) Trade B Schenn, Read, and our 1st for Tampa's 3rd pick in order to pick Nichushkin. If there's a future Malkin in the mix in this draft, and he's obtainable in a manageable way, I don't see why not to go for the reach up.
2) Trade Hartnell + Cousins + not 1st round picks for Edler.
3) Buy out Briere, and Bryz.
4)Trade Mezaros for picks (Maybe some sort of bigger package can be worked so we can get a 1st round pick back and possibly get Pulock despite having traded our #11.) I realize we'd have to add quite a bit to Mezaros to get a top 15 pick.
5)Sign Evgeni Nabokov (Or any UFA goalie, really) to a short term, $3 mil max deal. It's a more manageable contract for an equal production. A veteran tendy who understands his roll would be best above all. Someone that can help Mason improve his game.
6)Sign David Clarkson to a BIG 1 year deal. It will be a Semin-esque scenario. Get him here for 1 year on $5-$6 mil, then after the 1 year deal, if we decide he's a good fit, we can sign him to a longer, more manageable cap hit contract. Clarkson can replace some of the things that we would lose by trading Hartnell.
7)Try to fill out the bottom 6 with the remaining cap hit with good roll playing veterans to fill out the PK and add alittle grit. This is where you have your Antropovs or Zubruses.

By the end of this theoretical, our roster would look something like meh:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valeri Nichushkin ($1.500m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
David Clarkson ($6.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Dainius Zubrus ($3.500m) / Scott Laughton ($1.107m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Adam Hall ($0.650m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Alexander Edler ($5.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($1.500m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
Evgeni Nabokov ($3.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,523,095; BONUSES: $450,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $226,905

And after next year we would have up to $12 mil coming off the books in order to resign G and Coots. With this theoretical we get bigger, improve our defense, don't necessarily hurt our PK, don't really dismantle our youth core, just "tweak" iit, and get rid of big, burdening contracts. I anticipate that many of you will think "B Schenn + Read + our 1st might not get Tampa's 1st." In that case, we tweak it, maybe add a juicy prospect like Lauridsen, or maybe some more picks. Besides for that, any thoughts?
- JAKEw1234

How can you realistically expect Clarkson, who is going to be one of the top UFA forwards available, to sign a one year deal. His agent won't even talk to you for a one year deal on the table.

Any thoughts on maybe just trading some roster players for 1st and or 2nd round picks? This team not remotely close to challenging for a cup for a Few yEars at least. With draft so deep in top 3 rounds might be worth stock piling some talent.
- SMS4016

Mezaros

Just out of curiosity what return do you think Gus would get right now? He's young, gained a bunch of confidence towards the end of the season and had a fantastic Worlds.
I'm not advicating moving him but I betcha that the Flyers have gotten some calls or had his name tossed into deals...
Think he'll still be with us? I'm sure it's contingent on getting some good D back. But ya never know!

How can you realistically expect Clarkson, who is going to be one of the top UFA forwards available, to sign a one year deal. His agent won't even talk to you for a one year deal on the table.
- MJL

Semin signed a 1 year deal, and he was one of the best UFAs last year. Players expectations for contract length goes down as the dollar signs go up.

Any thoughts on maybe just trading some roster players for 1st and or 2nd round picks? This team not remotely close to challenging for a cup for a Few yEars at least. With draft so deep in top 3 rounds might be worth stock piling some talent.
- SMS4016

Trading away roster players that are capable of getting a 1st round pick, will certainly ensure that they won't challenge for the Cup a few years at least.

Semin signed a 1 year deal, and he was one of the best UFAs last year. Players expectations for contract length goes down as the dollar signs go up.
- JAKEw1234

It's an outlier. Doesn't happen very often. I don't think it's realistic to expect Clarkson to sign a one year deal.

Not a big difference between the 11th pick and guys going all the way down to the early 20's. Best case scenario, they could come away with two blue chip prospects out of one draft, versus just one who may not even end up better than the two you picked lower down.
- Tomahawk

Weighing in on this here. I would defer every time to both you and JSAQ regarding prospect rankings/depth/quality etc. I have a few opinions, but both of you (and many others on the site) are more knowledgeable of the players.

But it seems to me that if you combine this dialog you and JSAQ have, that from 8th - 20something are just about in the same range of talent, with your earlier thread that you do not see them being able to acquire a top pairing D without either significantly overpaying, taking a reclamation project, or gambling on a young prospect a year or two away (all of which I agree with by the way), to me the best recourse is to draft defense now.

I'm not a fan of drafting a forward just because we succeeded in the past with forwards, or the proverbial best player available, which given the "best" part is subjective. And I'm not saying reach either.

But I think realisitically the Flyers are 2-3 years away. I think they let the core forwards grow together, but will need to replace several defenseman. So draft a high-ceiling prospect (or three) and let them become part of a core 2-3 years out with L Schenn, Coburn, Grossman, Gus, Ghost, etc.

Semin signed a 1 year deal, and he was one of the best UFAs last year. Players expectations for contract length goes down as the dollar signs go up.
- JAKEw1234

Semin also had a history and a reputation of being a difficult guy to coach and who wasn't a very good teammate.

Clarkson has none of that baggage.

It's an outlier. Doesn't happen very often. I don't think it's realistic to expect Clarkson to sign a one year deal.
- MJL

I would guess that's because teams are usually not willing to pay that much. When Semin was signed for 7 mil I literally laughed. I don't think it's unrealistic for him to sign a 1 year if we offer him the right amount of money.

Weighing in on this here. I would defer every time to both you and JSAQ regarding prospect rankings/depth/quality etc. I have a few opinions, but both of you (and many others on the site) are more knowledgeable of the players.

But it seems to me that if you combine this dialog you and JSAQ have, that from 8th - 20something are just about in the same range of talent, with your earlier thread that you do not see them being able to acquire a top pairing D without either significantly overpaying, taking a reclamation project, or gambling on a young prospect a year or two away (all of which I agree with by the way), to me the best recourse is to draft defense now.

I'm not a fan of drafting a forward just because we succeeded in the past with forwards, or the proverbial best player available, which given the "best" part is subjective. And I'm not saying reach either.

But I think realisitically the Flyers are 2-3 years away. I think they let the core forwards grow together, but will need to replace several defenseman. So draft a high-ceiling prospect (or three) and let them become part of a core 2-3 years out with L Schenn, Coburn, Grossman, Gus, Ghost, etc.
- TheGreat28

The best player available may well be a defenseman. But if he's not they shouldn't ignore the better player to take the next best defenseman.

That's part of the reason I'm open to trading down. They could end up with a couple of very good players, and have more options when they do pick. Then, they're not in a spot where they have all their eggs in one basket.

If they traded the 11th & 41st picks and & got 14 & 22 or 26, they could end up with Josh Morrissey and Samuel Morin and have two good prospects for the defense.

I would guess that's because teams are usually not willing to pay that much. When Semin was signed for 7 mil I literally laughed. I don't think it's unrealistic for him to sign a 1 year if we offer him the right amount of money.
- JAKEw1234

What's worth more? 1 year for 7M, or 5 years for 5M a year? Players look for security. And normally won't give that up for a slightly higher yearly salary on a one year deal, at Clarkson's age. Unless some circumstance forces them to have to accept that. I don't see that happening with Clarkson.