yup but having never reached 20 or 50, he's nothing more than a not particularly good 2C with some potential to be better.
- muffin_man

A cursory glance at 20 goal scorers and 50 points scorers show that scoring either puts you in top 100 scoring in the league (dmen included). There are even fewer repeat 20g or 50P players (just about 100 of each a year). It'd be nice to see Gagner get over this threshold (and stay there), but I'm not perturbed.

I've been making the joke for a while now that it's odd that the panthers and lightning been put in a division with Toronto Mtl etc is just to save the trouble of realignment when they both move to Quebec and Toronto lol
- Redmile247

while true, it's also because there wasnt much of an option as they are out of the way for everyone.
NYR, NYI, Pitt, PHI, WAS, NJD,
BOS, MTL, TOR, OTT, BUF, DET

CAR, FLA, TB don't fit anywhere....

I think a lot see him as a 1b with potential to be better.

Everyone overvalues their own prospects, I think it comes up more with oiler fans because of the high profile prospects...
- muffin_man

To be a 1b centre he'll need to improve his off the puck play or his offensive play considerably. Personally, I don't care if he scores much more so long as he becomes a harder player to play against overall. Skating, Faceoffs, checking could all improve (and may or may not)

A cursory glance at 20 goal scorers and 50 points scorers show that scoring either puts you in top 100 scoring in the league (dmen included). There are even fewer repeat 20g or 50P players (just about 100 of each a year). It'd be nice to see Gagner get over this threshold (and stay there), but I'm not perturbed.
- Morris

man. i guess i expect more. 65+ first liners, 50+ second liners...

He called it the Russian Elite Leauge

Done.

"Man among boys" players tend to skate with their heads down. Stay away from this concussion-in-waiting.

Any way you look at it the Flames will screw it up and end up with sh*t...
- Flyfreaky

Thanks for the input.

The one area where I think the current Flames management have done well in is at the draft.

I've been making the joke for a while now that it's odd that the panthers and lightning been put in a division with Toronto Mtl etc is just to save the trouble of realignment when they both move to Quebec and Toronto lol
- Redmile247

I don't think that's as much a joke as you're making it. People are talking about the benefit of being in a division with so-called 'legacy teams' in terms of growing the game, but the fact that the Florida teams, Nasvhille and Carolina are in three different divisions to me is a tacit admission by the league that it's not worth developping regional rivalries and getting attached to these teams. And I'd venture the crazy travel costs for the panthers and bolts will negate the tangible economic benefit of visits from the leafs.

I really do think this was posturing to see them moved in the next couple of years.

I've been making the joke for a while now that it's odd that the panthers and lightning been put in a division with Toronto Mtl etc is just to save the trouble of realignment when they both move to Quebec and Toronto lol
- Redmile247

I'm looking at the cap space that some of these teams have and it's un(frank)ingbelievable...

1. Leafs: 11m
2. Coyotes: 23m
3. Sens: 12m
4. Isle: 17m
5. Preds: 17m
6. Stars: 24m
7. CBJ: 11m
8. Avs: 10m
9. Canes: 14m
10. Flames: 13m
11. Sabres: 13m

Man, these teams need to start spending some serious cash...

Thanks for the input.

The one area where I think the current Flames management have done well in is at the draft.
- TandA4Flames

They're 2 quality picks away from mediocrity...

man. i guess i expect more. 65+ first liners, 50+ second liners...
- muffin_man

I think it's because a lot of the teams we're watching compete for the cup are spoiled rotten. Pens have two 90-100 point centres (and used to have a 50 point 3C), Carter, Richards and Kopitar are all capable of 60+ points, Sedin and Kesler, Toews and Sharp, and Seguin, Krejci and Bergeron to name a few.

Which means as a corollary teams like Edmonton have a 50 point #1C

I love the he is on pace arguement ... In a lockout season where many players didn't play much before the start of the season... Any player who surpassed expectations this year shouldn't be expected to put up the same numbers next year over a full 82 game season.
- Redmile247

every player's in the same boat in a shortened season. Didn't seem to hurt Stamkos and St Louis

I think a lot see him as a 1b with potential to be better.

Everyone overvalues their own prospects, I think it comes up more with oiler fans because of the high profile prospects...
- muffin_man

if he's 16th in C scoring, I don't think it's unfair or homeristic to say he's a fringe 1C

Thanks for the input.

The one area where I think the current Flames management have done well in is at the draft.
- TandA4Flames

the last 2 years (aside from janko), they've drafted really well

Thanks for the input.

The one area where I think the current Flames management have done well in is at the draft.
- TandA4Flames

I agree , look at the players taken two years ago .... Every pick is showing promise

I don't think that's as much a joke as you're making it. People are talking about the benefit of being in a division with so-called 'legacy teams' in terms of growing the game, but the fact that the Florida teams, Nasvhille and Carolina are in three different divisions to me is a tacit admission by the league that it's not worth developping regional rivalries and getting attached to these teams. And I'd venture the crazy travel costs for the panthers and bolts will negate the tangible economic benefit of visits from the leafs.

I really do think this was posturing to see them moved in the next couple of years.
- Morris

With the strength of the Canadian dollar and salary cap teams in Canada can thrive and smaller markets up here could probably do better then some of the struggling teams .... This is a business and making money in Quebec Toronto maybe even Saskatchewan can make far more money then the coyotes or panthers of the world

every player's in the same boat in a shortened season. Didn't seem to hurt Stamkos and St Louis
- TheNugeIsHuge

Every player has the same opportunity but not all of them take the opportunity to play during the lockout , that's their fault but it makes a difference. Jeez first gagner is a 50 point guy , then on pace for 65 and now your using stamkos and St.louis as a comparable

Thanks for the input.

The one area where I think the current Flames management have done well in is at the draft.
- TandA4Flames

Baertshi - great pick
Reinhart - solid for a third rounder, will be a steady NHLer
Granlund - good second rounder, high skill, scoring well in the SM Liiga - not an easy league by any means
Sieloff and Wotherspoon - Good second round picks, made Team USA and Team Canada

Jankowski - I will give this kid the benefit of the doubt in that he was the youngest in the draft class. You can basically look at him and say, how would he fair if he was in the 2013 draft class? Probably a late first rounder now in terms of the consensus ranking.

I think the issue with this choice is not that they took him, but when they took him. It seems like they could've got him in the second round with that 42nd pick they got (instead of Sieloff). I understand he was on other team's radars but I think I would prefer risk losing him in the second than taking him in the first. Would you have preferred making the same trade with Buffalo, grabbing Maata, Samuelsson, Skjei, Subban, etc and possibly grabbing Janko at 42? Even if he was gone, you still had a shot at Frk and Scissons.

That's my personal opinion of course. Management have their own philosophies. Hence why the Oilers made a stupid second round choice by taking Moroz.

With the strength of the Canadian dollar and salary cap teams in Canada can thrive and smaller markets up here could probably do better then some of the struggling teams .... This is a business and making money in Quebec Toronto maybe even Saskatchewan can make far more money then the coyotes or panthers of the world
- Redmile247

especially because a lot of American cities have become donuts. There are a lot of people who live in the "metropolitan area" (more like suburban area) surrounding US cities who don't spend much time or money in that city anymore. Though declining in their own right, many Canadian cities like Quebec are still organized around an urban core and the urban economy still accounts for a large chunk of the municipalities total wealth.

That's my personal opinion of course. Management have their own philosophies. Hence why the Oilers made a stupid second round choice by taking Moroz.
- ystoil

We'll see how this plays out. In terms of early returns we reached on Moroz but got good value out of Khaira and Zharkov. I dunno though.

I'm looking at the cap space that some of these teams have and it's un(frank)ingbelievable...

1. Leafs: 11m
2. Coyotes: 23m
3. Sens: 12m
4. Isle: 17m
5. Preds: 17m
6. Stars: 24m
7. CBJ: 11m
8. Avs: 10m
9. Canes: 14m
10. Flames: 13m
11. Sabres: 13m

Man, these teams need to start spending some serious cash...
- Flyfreaky

If I'm these teams I look at teams like Philly and van and try and make some trades

Every player has the same opportunity but not all of them take the opportunity to play during the lockout , that's their fault but it makes a difference. Jeez first gagner is a 50 point guy , then on pace for 65 and now your using stamkos and St.louis as a comparable
- Redmile247

I'm saying St Louis and Stamkos didn't play during the lockout and they lead the league in scoring. Didn't seem like a disadvantage to them.

You may not realize, but Gagner is 23, and is just getting linemates like MPS and Yak. You don't reach your full potential by 22 bub

If I'm these teams I look at teams like Philly and van and try and make some trades
- Redmile247

Philly and Vancouver each about 3m over...Am I reading this right: Pens 9m over the cap?

I like Nich, I have always said he was top 3, long before the season started. However I am not sure of his value as a rookie. Two top 6 forwards and a first round would have to be two average top 6 and a late first round. I don't think Edmonton would trade any of their 4 star kids for him straight across. I think this is the same for many of the leagues elite talent. However the Oilers gap isn't that big since they only have to move from spot 7 where other teams have further to go I could see their offers being higher.

If tampa is going to buy out vinny as many assume they might be the team to deal with. Would 22 year old Gagner and the 7th pick be the start? Maybe add a current playing prospect or one of their numerous defensive prospects that are ready to compete for a NHL team. Maybe even a veteran Dman like Nick Schultz, who would be top 4 in Tampa. Maybe highly rated prospect and probably top 6 Paajarvi. He seems to have a lot of interest due to his size. I think Edmonton would not give up much more if it was him as he seems to improve every game.

Best chance is Edmonton but this might have to be a three way. Edmonton trading up to 5 and then to 3. Carolina could be good with a d prospect or Lind so they could trade down two with another pick or a decent prospect. Then Tampa would be looking at Drouin, Barkov or Nich at pick 5. Not bad to trade down. Edmonton could offer again a current roster player, a couple of decent prospects or a pick to move up.

I am thinking Edmonton trades Nick Shultz, this years 7th overall and next years 2, 3 or 4th round pick to Carolina for their pick 5. Then Edmonton trades The fifth overall pick, a second overall pick and prospect arcobello and Musil for tampa's third overall pick. Musil and Arc dominated the AHL. They would be great on the Oil but the Oil have two great young prospects that are 5'9. Acrobello is arguably the best. The Oil have 5 good dmen that could play this year as rookies. Klefbom, Marcinin, Fedun, Musil and Gernat. Fedun and Klefbom had injuries last year. Marcinin is likely a year away but could be traded and Gernat is the furthest away. Tampa gets a prospect that is ready to crack their d line up. A second pick in this years draft and at worst gets Barkov who CS ranked as the number 2 player at the end of April (according to TSN).

Edmonton will most likely have 1 first rounds or 2 seconds, a third round, next years first/second/third/fourth, Nick Schultz, Smid, Hemsky (maybe holding part of his contract), MPS, Hartkinen, 2 good forward prospects and 5 d rookies.

A jump to third fifth and third is possible. Price might not be worth it.

The Bulffalo Sablers need centers, not more wingers.
- Artyukhin76

How do you figure? They have Hodgeson, Grigerenko and Girgensons in the system. The could use centres NOW, but not prospects. The are lacking future wingers.