read a few posts a few pages back from this morning about torts being fired because of a player mutiny...where is this information coming from? - rangerdanger94
I have always felt very uneasy about his firing, and since then the revelations that both Callahan and Hagelin were playing hurt, combined with the other injuries, in a crazy shortened season with no training camp, and then you see Boston go into Pittsburgh and shut them out in game 1. Really believe he got the shaft unfairly.
I am looking forward to a new era, and hopefully a looser offensive system. But I hope this isn't a case of Don't Know What Ya Got Until It's Gone by Cinderella - jambodelta99
Agree wholeheartedly on this, as they are the main reasons why I felt he would be back. He has to feel as if there was a mutiny as don't think Sather made this call on his own.
Agree wholeheartedly on this, as they are the main reasons why I felt he would be back. He has to feel as if there was a mutiny as don't think Sather made this call on his own. - airjan23
Sather been in league a gazzilion years don't think a few players complaining would have swayed him. It must have been pretty significant. Being a former player and coach I'm sure he is aware that not everyone on team going to be happy with coach. It's not like Neil Smith dealing with Messier. Sather is old school guy with a tough guy mentality.
Agree wholeheartedly on this, as they are the main reasons why I felt he would be back. He has to feel as if there was a mutiny as don't think Sather made this call on his own. - airjan23
a bunch of reporters said that there was a huge disagreement between sather and torts right before the firing and that hank's comments kinda pushed sather over the edge in terms of firing torts, so maybe sather really was thinking about it strongly and then hank's comments kinda put the nail in the coffin.
Sather been in league a gazzilion years don't think a few players complaining would have swayed him. It must have been pretty significant. Being a former player and coach I'm sure he is aware that not everyone on team going to be happy with coach. It's not like Neil Smith dealing with Messier. Sather is old school guy with a tough guy mentality. - Chris Erwin
Not questioning that, but all signs, and I repeat all signs, were that Tortorella would be back during break up day. That changed 36 hours later. What he heard had to be damning to an extent, but a) how do that just come up now b) was Sather completely oblivious to what was going on and/or c) did players go over his head and speak with Dolan? Any and all of those points are concerning
a bunch of reporters said that there was a huge disagreement between sather and torts right before the firing and that hank's comments kinda pushed sather over the edge in terms of firing torts, so maybe sather really was thinking about it strongly and then hank's comments kinda put the nail in the coffin. - rangerdanger94
Think it was concerning whether the year had been a step backwards or sidewards as well as the style of play. But, how often had Sather been around and how frequently has he addressed team performance. Fine with him being behind the scenes but when does the spotlight fall on him for all this? If firing Torts, Sather was just as much at fault or more so due to team construction.
That relationship is the source of Francesa' enormous ego and pompous attitude. I am sometimes afraid to admit my allegiance to the Dallas Cowboys, enduring this man rooting for them just bc Parcells coached them made me vommit. What a phoney!
Not questioning that, but all signs, and I repeat all signs, were that Tortorella would be back during break up day. That changed 36 hours later. What he heard had to be damning to an extent, but a) how do that just come up now b) was Sather completely oblivious to what was going on and/or c) did players go over his head and speak with Dolan? Any and all of those points are concerning - airjan23
Legitimate but think Sather at his age and how he carries himself would not tolerate players going over his head. Not like Dolan isn't loyal to a fault to Sather. So I don't think anything would have happened if player went over head besides that player being traded or hard balled during contract time. Plus although I like Rangers and their core none really seem to have overbearing or strong enough personality to take on a coach without a reason. And not sure but read he left Tampa a very unpopular figure and that was after winning cup.
Legitimate but think Sather at his age and how he carries himself would not tolerate players going over his head. Not like Dolan isn't loyal to a fault to Sather. So I don't think anything would have happened if player went over head besides that player being traded or hard balled during contract time. Plus although I like Rangers and their core none really seem to have overbearing or strong enough personality to take on a coach without a reason. And not sure but read he left Tampa a very unpopular figure and that was after winning cup. - Chris Erwin
New ownership dismantled a great hockey team, I'd be a little pissed off too...
Think it was concerning whether the year had been a step backwards or sidewards as well as the style of play. But, how often had Sather been around and how frequently has he addressed team performance. Fine with him being behind the scenes but when does the spotlight fall on him for all this? If firing Torts, Sather was just as much at fault or more so due to team construction. - airjan23
Sather had to make some tough moves, like letting Prust and others go, and those moves changed the dynamic of the team. I don't think they realized just how much. Much of the grit went with them, and Torts did not adjust accordingly, in my eyes.
With that being said, Sather shoulders some blame, but unless a Isiah Thomas kind of drama pops up, Sather may have this job until he wants to give it up.
Sather had to make some tough moves, like letting Prust and others go, and those moves changed the dynamic of the team. I don't think they realized just how much. Much of the grit went with them, and Torts did not adjust accordingly, in my eyes.
With that being said, Sather shoulders some blame, but unless a Isiah Thomas kind of drama pops up, Sather may have this job until he wants to give it up. - Blueshirt44
Think Torts has to get some blame, but he did try to adjust their style from a 2-3 to a 3-2, but agree he failed to adjust as much as he should have. Buit I think Sather has gotten off more scot-free than he should have.
Pulled this from article written by Tampa writer who stated he liked Torts in beginning of article.
"That is Torts. He is a wildfire who is destined to burn out. He is a fine coach, a wonderful coach. But the 54-year-old rides the nerves of his team. There is always something going on with Torts, something annoying or amusing or destructive or delightful. He is so driven that after a while, it sucks all the oxygen from the room.
This player stinks. This one should be benched. That reporter is an idiot. That coach is a blowhard. The fan had it coming. And on it goes."
Think Torts has to get some blame, but he did try to adjust their style from a 2-3 to a 3-2, but agree he failed to adjust as much as he should have. Buit I think Sather has gotten off more scot-free than he should have. - airjan23
Indications from some were that the locker room was lost in Feb. If that is the case do you think that Sather's failing health lead to this possibly being missed? And then second guessed with the trade acquisitions and the end of season surge into the 6th spot?
It doesn't happen too often because they both have very full travel schedules, but when Mark Messier and Rangers director of player personnel Gordie Clark watch a hockey game together, one thing jumps out to Clark.
Messier's emotion.
Whether it's watching a prospect or a Rangers playoff game, Messier is into it.
"He's a very engaging guy. He's still, very emotionally into the games," Clark said when we chatted on Friday as news emerged of Messier's interest in the Rangers coaching vacancy. "Whenever I do get a chance to sit with him, it's interesting what comes out of it."
And his name being in the mix has made the Rangers' opening that much more interesting. Over the weekend, colleague Katie Strang reported that Messier is expected to compete for the Rangers coach opening after consulting with his family.
He's currently the special assistant to team president Glen Sather and often mentioned as the heir apparent to Sather when he retires, although assistant GM Jeff Gorton has done outstanding work in his position, making him another logical option as the future Rangers GM.
But right now, the opening is at head coach. Lindy Ruff, Dallas Eakins and Alain Vigneault are all in the mix for the job and it's a little easier to analyze how each one of them would fit behind the bench. How their style might compare and contrast with the ousted John Tortorella.
Considering Messier has no NHL coaching experience, it's hard to say exactly if his preferred style of play or system would fit the personnel. Did he like the way the Rangers played under Tortorella? Did he want them to play more like the teams he once played for and won championships with? What system would he implement?
Would Messier's coaching style fit with the Rangers' current personnel?
"I've never really talked to him about that. He liked our team last year," Clark said. "If you talk to him a lot, he talks a lot about the Oilers days. Our team didn't play like that last year. It was blocking shots. I think he saw it working. He saw it was that group of guys, I don't know if that group of guys could have played the game that maybe he talks about all the time. He thought the team was really good and fun to watch."
In Messier, Clark sees a hockey mind smart enough to adapt his coaching method to the players on his roster.
"He knows enough about the game that you get what you get," Clark said.
One thing Clark is sure of: Messier loved the additions of John Moore and Derick Brassard. He loves Moore's ability to skate and talks often about a player's glide, something Moore has.
"He's really excited about stuff like that," Clark said. "And Brassard, in a couple games, he actually started taking over the games. It's like, 'whoa.' We thought we probably weren't going to get in [the playoffs], if we didn't pull off that trade."
Making the transition from Hall of Fame player to effective coach isn't an easy one, something Coyotes GM Don Maloney saw up close in Phoenix with Wayne Gretzky, who is also rumored to be intrigued by the Rangers job.
The biggest challenge? Coaches now are more prepared and skilled than ever before. Playing in the East, Messier will immediately have to match wits behind the bench with coaching veterans like Peter Laviolette, Mike Babcock and Claude Julien while learning on the job. And doing it for a team that will be expected to make the playoffs.
There will be little patience for a learning curve in New York, even for a beloved icon like Messier.
"It's a very hard job," Maloney said. "There's some very good people who have done it their whole lives. It's not just changing lines. There's a lot to it. It's a full-time job. That would be [true] for any ex-player who hasn't really coached -- there's playing and coaching."
Still, Maloney doesn't think that disqualifies Messier as a viable option. Especially if he has experienced assistant coaches.
"Look at Mark, his leadership and just his strength of his personality," Maloney said. "You could get good people around him to do the technical work. I know he has very firm ideas about how the game is played and how you win. There's nobody better at how you win. That would probably give him a leg up on everybody."
Maloney is also currently at the center of a coaching situation that could very well impact whether or not Messier gets the job. His coach in Phoenix, Dave Tippett, has a contract expiring at the end of the month.
If Tippett hits coaching free agency, he'd have to jump to the top of the list of candidates for the New York opening. In hiring Tippett, you'd remove the unknown. There's no question he's currently one of the best coaches in the NHL.
"Tip is obviously in a very good position. There's openings out there. He's an excellent coach. On dollar, cents and term, we're fairly close," Maloney said. "It's his comfort about what's going to happen with the team. Where we're going to play. Who the ownership is, what they're prepared to spend. Not that any of them are deal-breakers. Where I was prepared to sign up, he's just taking more time."
Maloney has been contacted by teams with coaching vacancies and has denied each one the permission to talk with Tippett before his contract expires.
"I know he wants to stay with our group and coaches and all of us," Maloney said. "The money is going to be on par -- sure, would he get a few more bucks elsewhere? Probably, [but] we're going to pay him fairly. It's the other issues in the air in the last few years. I'd rather do something sooner than later."
And while Maloney didn't specifically mention which teams contacted him about Tippett, you don't need a spreadsheet to figure it out.
"C'mon. He knows who is out there. All you have to do is say, 'Who doesn't have a coach? This team, this team, this team and this team," Maloney said. "If he's around July 1, there might be a few other teams who might be calling. I'm not naive to the fact that he could leave and it's a possibility. If that does happen we'll deal with it."
Tippett is a strong defensive coach who is known for maximizing the wins with every roster given to him, especially considering the circumstances in Phoenix. Another coach who has a similar reputation? John Tortorella.
The players in New York and media might have soured on Tortorella but he's still held in very high regard around the league. There wasn't one general manager or team executive I spoke with after his firing who believed he wouldn't coach in the NHL again and do it extremely well.
The only slight concern came from one GM who said Tortorella was too often the story in New York.
"He's a great coach," he said. "But it became about him and players don't like that."
Said another team executive on Tortorella: "I love him. He'll get another job. Everyone thought that Hitch wouldn't after Philly. He got two."
Hitchcock evolved as a coach and is credited for adapting to today's player. He also went from a large market in Philadelphia to a smaller one in Columbus, which might have helped the evolution. It's a path one source suggested would benefit Tortorella.
"He'll be better in a small market," he said.
But the like the others, he has no doubt about Tortorella's ability to do a strong job behind the bench in his next assignment. In analyzing the Rangers' success last season, that included a trip to the Eastern Conference finals and a 109-point regular season, he credited two things: "Goaltending and coaching."
The goaltending is still there in New York. Now, the challenge becomes finding the coach.
Sather had to make some tough moves, like letting Prust and others go, and those moves changed the dynamic of the team. I don't think they realized just how much. Much of the grit went with them, and Torts did not adjust accordingly, in my eyes.
With that being said, Sather shoulders some blame, but unless a Isiah Thomas kind of drama pops up, Sather may have this job until he wants to give it up. - Blueshirt44
I have a tough time killing sather for anything post 1st lockout. They make the playoffs most years, he makes terrific trades, I know his 1st rd picks generally haven't panned out, but he finds great players in different spots. Ie-hank, Callahan, girardi was undrafted. Is he perfect ? No. FAs usually are bad. But overall, to be fair, he's been good since the salary cap
Guys like ruff vingnault Boucher all have just as many question marks as messier. I get excited when I hear his name, I just don't get excited when I hear these other guys. The fear of the unknown is what is bothering people about messier, which is understandable. But I just can't explain, I think messier is the right man - Slimtj100
So far from the truth, how can a guy with back to back President's trophies and 1 win away from a Cup have as many question marks as a guy who's never coached on any level?
More and more Messier + Experienced Assistants is growing on me a bit. I am a sucker for marketing and articles like thsi are suckering me in. - mrhattrick27
Messier as HC, and Ron Wilson and Tom Renney as Assistants.
So far from the truth, how can a guy with back to back President's trophies and 1 win away from a Cup have as many question marks as a guy who's never coached on any level? - HankdaTank
Last 2 years playoffs have created questions in mind. 1-8 doesn't make you gulp with apprehension with the roster he had ? Vin, to boot you just ran out of a town a guy that actully won a cup and made an ECF and was 1 pt away from a pres trophy. Thats not very consistent
Messier as HC, and Ron Wilson and Tom Renney as Assistants. - Pete V
I would rather Mcguire as an assistant. Wilson's lack of hockey knowledge sowed when he was with leafs. Anybody can look good coaching the Sharks or Team USA.
