they get more out of their plyrs than any other org...patience of Job.
- isaiah520

The bulk of their drafted players don't get to the NHL until they are 22-25.

They have as many contractual spots as every other NHL team including the Flyers so they are forced by numbers to let go of the same number of prospects. It's the fact that the ones they keep are better than everyone else's for the most part that makes the difference.

All but Dekeyser came from the draft. So, I don't know why they would be considered a poor drafting team in the last few years.
- mayorofangrytown

yea, i think exlund needs to take another look at that.

The bulk of their drafted players don't get to the NHL until they are 22-25.

They have as many contractual spots as every other NHL team including the Flyers so they are forced by numbers to let go of the same number of prospects. It's the fact that the ones they keep are better than everyone else's for the most part that makes the difference.
- mayorofangrytown

they may not draft the best ones, but it's rare that they kick a good one loose like they did w/ leino.

It's kind of a chicken/egg argument though... if they aren't patient with development and willing to suffer the ups/downs of continually plugging kids into the lineup, they'd probably be busy rushing picks up or going the trade/UFA routes like the Flyers tend to do.
- Tomahawk

Helps to have a Cup contender each year and hold onto the frame work of your team, not over pay in free agency and keep the bulk of your picks if not add to them.

they may not draft the best ones, but it's rare that they kick a good one loose like they did w/ leino.
- isaiah520

The only reason they let him go was because they had no where to play him and he was out of options. He was basically an NHL caliber forward sitting in the stands.

Helps to have a Cup contender each year and hold onto the frame work of your team, not over pay in free agency and keep the bulk of your picks if not add to them.
- mayorofangrytown

No question, Holland & Co. have a better handle on that team from top to bottom than just about anybody in the NHL... and the Ilitchs give them the space with which to operate, which is a big plus.

The only reason they let him go was because they had no where to play him and he was out of options. He was basically an NHL caliber forward sitting in the stands.
- mayorofangrytown

true dat

theres an article from TOU or the hockey guys, where they broke down the corsi #s of couts and it seemed to reveal that his yr wasn't as much of a backstep as you may think. i think someone posted it here a few weeks ago.
- isaiah520

I'm just going by what I saw game in, game out...he (and others) looked to be a step or two down from their level of play last season. Having said that, I kind of wrote off this season as an abortion/aberration anyway...I know he (and others) can play better.

Damn you and your good points...

And no matter how you break it down, in a salary capped world, no team can retain a squad full of high-end talent.
- wolfhounds

Timing helps... You can come close, if you take a balance approach. Young players or less experienced player are cheaper than older ones... Develop some younger players for a while, stager the length of development time by position (defenseman longer than forwards). Work it so several enter the league at the same time. Have our core of talented players in the mid-aged range. Then finally sprinkle in UFA to fill the gaps.

Of course this falls apart once the youth start demanding higher salaries... Then you trade the core or the young guys for picks and start the process over again. This is essentially what Homer was doing with the Richards/Carter trades.

"Not cheap, but a hell of a lot cheaper than chasing after Edler, Shattenkirk or Pietrangelo."


- Tomahawk

A lot of people are speculating that Edler would cost Simmonds. I think Erik Johnson would command the same. I don't see Colorado trading him for a lot less. Pietrangelo is pretty much unavailable. And Shattenkirk would also come at a very high price. I think Colorado still values Johnson very highly. And I think labeleing him a reclamation project is innacurate.

Despite that great showing against Malkin, Coots took a step back in his overall game this season imo. His D was, on balance, pretty mediocre, and he made a bunch of rookie type mistakes. All of this shouldn't be that unexpected from such a young player, playing in the situation he did this season, so not really too worried about him...that said, I currently project his ceiling a bit lower than most on here.
- exlund

Joe Thornton had a really rough first couple of seasons in Boston after averaging over 2pts/game in the OHL. His rookie year was abysmal, like 7pts in 60 games played, something like that.

Not saying that Coots is a Thornton analog, but more often than not, something just suddenly clicks with kids and the production snowballs.

it would be most accurate to say that these teams have potential top4 guys in the works, so i should amend that...other than that, i stand by what i said.

and why not? PIT has Dupres and a host of other guys in the pipeline. BOS has hamilton and is obvi getting great contributions from krug. CHI has leddy and LA has voynov. and this trend toward banking enuf guys that have that potential is most important w/ the cap contraction. as things go along, there may be a relaxing of this vogue. but for now, the way these guys are valued, it's quite a boon for those orgs.
- isaiah520

Potential to be a top 4 is a different story. Flyers have some young defenseman in the pipeline. We'll see what Alt and Ghostibhere develop into. Gustaffsson is ready to step into the NHL. And we'll see who they draft. I think they need to be improved in developing defenseman. But the situation is not as dire as many make it out to be.

Joe Thornton had a really rough first couple of seasons in Boston after averaging over 2pts/game in the OHL. His rookie year was abysmal, like 7pts in 60 games played, something like that.

Not saying that Coots is a Thornton analog, but more often than not, something just suddenly clicks with kids and the production snowballs.
- Tomahawk

He scored his first career goal against the Flyers.

The thing about Couturier is that he has already developed the part of his game that usually takes longer, IE the defensive side. Usually they come in being able to score some goals but have to work on the defensive side of their game. This is the main reason why I am not too worried about Couturier and his development as a full on 2 way 25g/40a Selke candidate.

He scored his first career goal against the Flyers.

The thing about Couturier is that he has already developed the part of his game that usually takes longer, IE the defensive side. Usually they come in being able to score some goals but have to work on the defensive side of their game. This is the main reason why I am not too worried about Couturier and his development as a full on 2 way 25g/40a Selke candidate.
- MBFlyerfan

I think the entire situation last Season was not conducive for a young player like Couturier. I think the fustration of the Season affected his game. I think he was really pressing offensively, and that leaked into his struggles with the puck. His ceiling is still as high as it was the previous Season. That hasn't changed in my opinion.

Joe Thornton had a really rough first couple of seasons in Boston after averaging over 2pts/game in the OHL. His rookie year was abysmal, like 7pts in 60 games played, something like that.

Not saying that Coots is a Thornton analog, but more often than not, something just suddenly clicks with kids and the production snowballs.
- Tomahawk

Plus, I kind of expect his shooting percentage to double, if not triple, next season.

If he takes the same amount of shots, you're looking at a 20 goal scorer playing with pluggers on the 4th line.

A lot of people are speculating that Edler would cost Simmonds. I think Erik Johnson would command the same. I don't see Colorado trading him for a lot less. Pietrangelo is pretty much unavailable. And Shattenkirk would also come at a very high price. I think Colorado still values Johnson very highly. And I think labeleing him a reclamation project is innacurate.
- MJL

By "a lot of people" you mean random bloggers and HB/HFBoards posters?

Whether you think so or not, he's a reclamation project at this point... either for the Avs or another team. His stock has never been lower. If the Avs are open to moving him, I would hope that the Flyers would go that route instead of chasing Edler.

I think the entire situation last Season was not conducive for a young player like Couturier. I think the fustration of the Season affected his game. I think he was really pressing offensively, and that leaked into his struggles with the puck. His ceiling is still as high as it was the previous Season. That hasn't changed in my opinion.
- MJL

Despite his "struggles", he was still out there against the tough competition starting in his own zone more than the majority of forwards in the league, playing with stiffs on his wings.

Our defense is a bunch of Pylons. Cinderblocks on skates. Big, hard hitters, and good defenseman, but teams with fast skaters just fly on by them. Also teams that presure down low on defense shut down our offense because there is no scoring threat from the point. That needs to be fixed, and fixed now.
- youarewrong

I'm sure this has been said but Coburn is actually one of the better skating defensemen in the League (at least for large skaters) and probably our fastest D-man. For a big guy he moves well. Gus, Mez & Kimmo are also good skaters when healthy. Schenn's a lot better than people give him credit for and he and Grossman were arguably our two best D (after Kimmo) So I don't really share this 'Pylon' theory. It's not like the days of Hatcher and Rathje.

@thephillyphans Flyers have signed defenseman Maxim Lamarche to an entry level contract

@thephillyphans Flyers have signed defenseman Maxim Lamarche to an entry level contract
- isaiah520

Low-risk gamble on a Q overager.

I'm sure this has been said but Coburn is actually one of the better skating defensemen in the League (at least for large skaters) and probably our fastest D-man. For a big guy he moves well. Gus, Mez & Kimmo are also good skaters when healthy. Schenn's a lot better than people give him credit for and he and Grossman were arguably our two best D (after Kimmo) So I don't really share this 'Pylon' theory. It's not like the days of Hatcher and Rathje.
- flyler

I don't either. Any dman is going to look like a pylon when his forwards are all chasing the play and you are facing odd man rushes all game long.

Bad team defense and turnovers in the neutral zone will make any individual look like pylon, irrespective of foot speed. Whereas the opposite can successfully mask the deficiencies of real pylons like Chara, Regehr and Doug Murray.

The brain and the puck always move faster than the feet.
- Tomahawk

You guys are losing the point. As a unit our defense is likely the least mobil, with the least amount of puck moving skill in the league. Anytime someone says a Flyers defender is "fast" or "above average" skater, it is always followed by... "for his size". Meaning for a big guy he is fast, but in the overall picture.... eh.

The Defense is currently 1 demensional, and specific teams can exploit that, and have with regularity. They only guy with real speed is Gustefsson.

By "a lot of people" you mean random bloggers and HB/HFBoards posters?

Whether you think so or not, he's a reclamation project at this point... either for the Avs or another team. His stock has never been lower. If the Avs are open to moving him, I would hope that the Flyers would go that route instead of chasing Edler.
- Tomahawk

And you're not one of those random HB posters? LOL
Whether you think so or not, Erik Johnson is not a reclamation project. He is an NHL defenseman who is playing 20 minutes a game. And is playing in all situations. Including the PK and the PP. And he is still only 25. A reclamation project is a player who is being scratched, or who was waived, and a team has given up on him, and decided to trade him.
Your statement that his stock has never been lower is pure speculation.
I would not mind seeing him in a Flyers uniform. Because I think there is still a lot of room for growth there. But he is not the player that Edler is. Edler is far more what the Flyers need. That quality 2 way presence, that can QB the PP. And put up points on the back end. Both players are going to be expensive. I say the get the more advanced player.

I don't either. Any dman is going to look like a pylon when his forwards are all chasing the play and you are facing odd man rushes all game long.
- MBFlyerfan

You guys are losing the point. As a unit our defense is likely the least mobil, with the least amount of puck moving skill in the league. Anytime someone says a Flyers defender is "fast" or "above average" skater, it is always followed by... "for his size". Meaning for a big guy he is fast, but in the overall picture.... eh.

The Defense is currently 1 demensional, and specific teams can exploit that, and have with regularity. They only guy with real speed is Gustefsson.
- youarewrong

I agree. The Flyers defense, especially with the way Laviolette wants to play. Lacks the puck skils that is needed. They need a high minute two way quality defenseman.