I'd agree with all of this, except perhaps the Ballard trade. It was before my time on HB but I remember having some discussions with friends on losing Grabner, especially after the spark he had just shown in the playoffs. Throwing in a 1st rounder (making it essentially 2 1st rounders for a 3/4 Dman) was an overpayment IMO opinion, even at the time.
- AlexF

AV had Grabner demoted down to 4 th line duties at the time . He was not good enough

If you were Gillis would you buy out Booth and Ballard and offersheet Alex Pietrangelo for 7.5 mil 6 year deal? You know Flyers will.

Cost 4 firsts
- VANTEL

They can't.

AV had Grabner demoted down to 4 th line duties at the time . He was not good enough
- VANTEL

Yup, Grabner was another AV casualty.

They can't.
- DrChristianTroy

Missing draft picks?

Unofficial Poll:

Should Henrik automatically retain the "C" under the new staff?

I vote "NO" (but that doesn't mean he can't earn it once they get here).
- DrChristianTroy

Agree

They might have made out better on the ice but considering Ballard comes with a 4.2m cap hit even that is highly debatable. One thing for sure, Grabner would make our team instantly better. throwing in Howden as a prospect turns that deal into the worst of the Gillis era.
- AlexF

Grabner was never going to get a shot while AV was here. Just not good enough defensively. It took him getting traded and then waived by Florida for him to take the hint and pick up his game.

Agree
- 1970vintage

Doesn't MG pick the captain? If it is AV then hockey Gods payed him back for making Lu captain

Unofficial Poll:

Should Henrik automatically retain the "C" under the new staff?

I vote "NO" (but that doesn't mean he can't earn it once they get here).
- DrChristianTroy

Yes, largely because I think the "C" is an over-hyped denomination. People are who they are and the true leaders will speak up on the bench, in the locker room, etc regardless of if there is a C sewn onto their jersey or not.

Missing draft picks?
- VANTEL

Their cap situation (even after compliance).

Their cap situation (even after compliance).
- DrChristianTroy

Bryz and Briere buyouts

Bryz and Briere buyouts
- VANTEL

That's a carp load of money in buy-outs and still leaves them a starting goalie short.

Whatever. A re-tool can involve an identity change. Think the Flyers before the 2011-12 season. They re-tooled. Their re-tool shipped out Richards & Carter. It changed the identity of their team as much, or even more, than trading the Sedins would do in Vancouver. But it was just them re-tooling. If the Canucks get players who can contribute immediately for the twins, then it is a re-tooling. If they were to simply get draft picks and prospects, then no, that would not be re-tooling.
- KB3Point0

I guess our definition of what rebuilding means differs. I would suggest that they Flyers did in fact rebuild i.e. they changed the identity of their team and have suffered (in the standings) because of it. To me, re-tooling means that the identity of the team remains the same, but that supporting cast changes to meet the current needs. There is also no reason that a rebuild can't yield immediate results, following the likes of Edmonton and Toronto is not a requisite of a rebuild.

That's a carp load of money in buy-outs and still leaves them a starting goalie short.
- AlexF

Luongo and Edler for the Schenn Brothers and Simmonds

Luongo and Edler for the Schenn Brothers and Simmonds
- fiveandagame

You might not be far off with that if Canucks took back Bryz also and bought him out.

Doesn't MG pick the captain? If it is AV then hockey Gods payed him back for making Lu captain
- VANTEL

I think MG has input into who should be the captain, as do the players and ultimately the coach (I would imagine). If I had to guess, Henrik will still be the captain when training camp opens in September however.

Luongo and Edler for the Schenn Brothers and Simmonds
- fiveandagame

Unfortunately, I think the reason Luongo wasn't traded at the TDL was because Gillis & Gilman figured out that "recapture" could become a MASSIVE problem down the road.

IMO, Luongo will be bought out.

Unfortunately, I think the reason Luongo wasn't traded at the TDL was because Gillis & Gilman figured out that "recapture" could become a MASSIVE problem down the road.

IMO, Luongo will be bought out.
- DrChristianTroy

If Bryz came back then Flyers probably would not care .

Unfortunately, I think the reason Luongo wasn't traded at the TDL was because Gillis & Gilman figured out that "recapture" could become a MASSIVE problem down the road.

IMO, Luongo will be bought out.
- DrChristianTroy

I was joking. I can't see Philly doing that. Unless like Vantel says we take Bryz and probably include another peice.

I had a thought about the whole "Cap Recapture" penalty, or Luongo Rule in the new CBA. It is bending the rules, i.e. not in the spirit of the agreement, but all a player has to do is withhold their services stating personal reasons and voila, problem solved (a la Tim Thomas). If the player never formally retires, then no teams will be on the hook for past cap savings and some team looking to reach the cap floor can acquire the player without having to pay a dime of the salary.

Yes, largely because I think the "C" is an over-hyped denomination. People are who they are and the true leaders will speak up on the bench, in the locker room, etc regardless of if there is a C sewn onto their jersey or not.
- AlexF

I've heard this argument many times & respectfully disagree.

Unfortunately, I think the reason Luongo wasn't traded at the TDL was because Gillis & Gilman figured out that "recapture" could become a MASSIVE problem down the road.

IMO, Luongo will be bought out.
- DrChristianTroy

I (frank)ing hate the NHL and Bettman for exactly this reason - always delving in, fumbling around, and over-complicating nearly every administrative facet of the game. Wait till the next lockout to bring in even more rule changes, rinse, repeat. This "new" rule reeks of ego on Bettman's part, trying to retroactively screw the guys that dodged the cap rules his team set in place.

The most valuable players in the NHL these days are lawyers.

I've heard this argument many times & respectfully disagree.
- DrChristianTroy

That's fair.

Playing devil's advocate and taking the stance that the C does count for something, then I'd leave it to the new coach to decide on who his captain for the new season will be.

Unofficial Poll:

Should Henrik automatically retain the "C" under the new staff?

I vote "NO" (but that doesn't mean he can't earn it once they get here).
- DrChristianTroy

Definitely NO, Henrik and Daniel should just concentrate on scoring and forget about worrying about leadership. Henrik leads by example anyways and like Luongo might end up playing better without having to deal with all the crap that goes with being captain. Burrows, Kesler or maybe Higgins would be my choice as they all play hard and are vocal guys and the responsibility might make Kesler a better player.

If Bryz came back then Flyers probably would not care .
- VANTEL

Recapture has nothing to do with whether or not the Flyers care...

If Luongo retires 2 years early (at 41), we incur a cap hit $3.715 million until his contracts expires. If he retires one year early (at 42), we're dinged $7.430 million.

Just buy him out now!

Unofficial Poll:

Should Henrik automatically retain the "C" under the new staff?

I vote "NO" (but that doesn't mean he can't earn it once they get here).
- DrChristianTroy

Honestly, I believe the team should have most of the say in who the captain is and I highly doubt you'd see anyone in that locker room vote against Hank.

And on that note, Bieksa would be the only guy I think could handle it.

I just can't see Kesler talking to the media every single day. he doesn't seem to like doing it once a week let alone every day.